Stopping a horse napping backwards... sounds easy but!? Help!?

Hi we have a gelding who occasionaly likes to go backwards
When he starting in the school enviroment tried all the usual things & then waved a whip behind him & that sent him forwards
When out hacking he started being a bit of a pain - he is rode by a 13 year old - we got someone older to ride him (with stronger legs) went along as well & basically he was just sent him forwards - when he stated going backwards as soon as he left the yard - he was told off & sent forwards with legs - he did most of the hack in trot - that way she could feel when he was trying to back off & remind him that he need to go forwards - he did protest @ times butr she got there & this had done the trick for us - he is now being hacked out again lead file & not going backwards @ the moment is my daughter sees something that he may not like its into trot if safe to do so & push him on - We do not need top use the whip on him just knowing that it is there seems to be enough for him - dont know if this will work for anyone else x
 
Another naughty nappy pony here, I'm afraid I got really tough with him after he took the napping backwards to such extremes that he climbed on top of a 2'6 xc fence backwards, which of course he then fell off (not being a circus horse, more raving idiot) splatting me on the ground and then landing on me. I used to not be able to turn mine, I can't in a loose ring, so I have an array of bits that I can turn him with, and he knows it... ;)
 
Haven't read all the posts so apologies if I'm repeating what's already been said.

My old loan mare used to do this out hacking if there was somewhere she didn't want to go, for example she hated puddles and a watermain had burst across one of the roads we used one day, and she would never go down that road again without argument.

With her it started off with slow steps backwards and progressed to running backwards and spinning the more you asked her to go forwards, complete with bum in the middle of a road/heading for ditches.

I got so fed up with it that one day when she span to go back the way she'd come, I asked her to rein back in the direction I wanted to go until we got past whatever obstacle it was that she had decided was an issue and then turn her around and continue the hack.

With her it was confidence, everytime you asked her to move forward you could feel her screwing up her courage and then changing her mind the closer she got. Once she couldn't see the scary thing, i.e. by putting it behind her, she'd walk backwards past it without issue. I'm sure people watching us must have thought I was bonkers reversing my horse around bends though :).
 
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I am going to be very controversial here and add my idea but am sure I will get called cruel. Before I make any comment, it will not work with all horses and obviously IF they are been stubborn or obstinate then use it, IF they are young or genuinely nervous or frightened then DON'T use it.

A friend of mine had a horse who would nap, reverse rapidly backwards and became dangerous, he nearly reversed into a cattle grid he wasn't frightened just plain STUBBON, she got her daughter to stand behind and the minute he started reversing, she used her voice, firm leg aids and when this didn't work, her daughter poked him up the arse with a piece of gorse bush. Only had to do it twice and 6 years on he has never napped, or reversed since. :eek: :eek:
 
Piglet said:
I am going to be very controversial here and add my idea but am sure I will get called cruel. Before I make any comment, it will not work with all horses and obviously IF they are been stubborn or obstinate then use it, IF they are young or genuinely nervous or frightened then DON'T use it.

A friend of mine had a horse who would nap, reverse rapidly backwards and became dangerous, he nearly reversed into a cattle grid he wasn't frightened just plain STUBBON, she got her daughter to stand behind and the minute he started reversing, she used her voice, firm leg aids and when this didn't work, her daughter poked him up the arse with a piece of gorse bush. Only had to do it twice and 6 years on he has never napped, or reversed since. :eek: :eek:
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LOVE IT!!! :)

Just need to find a gorse bush and a friend willing enough to follow me round carrying it every time I ride waiting for the napping :)
 
You say you can't turn her and that you can put her nose on your leg, there is your problem!

Tunrning is done by using the outside rein not the inside, so I would practice circling etc without using the inside rein to turn and maintain a contact on the outside rein, think move the shoulder not bend the neck. Good luck!
 
At first I used to turn my horse round and make her go backwards in the direction I want to go, she would have a paddy, I would tun her back and give her a moment to go forwards, praise if does, say no if goes back and repeat ... I only have to turn once in blue moon now and will just say no if she tries to go back, if she makes the slightest hint of going forwards she gets,praise and I sat and waited a lot - this has virtually cured the happiness.
 
My gelding used to do this on his way out of the yard at the same place every day, h'ed nap spin or start running backwards. I was told to make him go backwards and to keep making him go backwards untill he didnt want to then ask him to walk on worked a treat obviously only do it when its safe. I still use it now if he has a silly moment and decides he cant possible go past something i turn him rein back 4 or 5 strides then turn him round and ask him to walk on again 9 times out of 10 it saves me having to have a huge battle with him.
 
snopuma said:
You say you can't turn her and that you can put her nose on your leg, there is your problem!

Tunrning is done by using the outside rein not the inside, so I would practice circling etc without using the inside rein to turn and maintain a contact on the outside rein, think move the shoulder not bend the neck. Good luck!
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This^^^^^^. You could also try using your weight to achieve a turn. Put all your weight into the inside stirrup. Lean to the inside(think devil's horsemen!) to throw her balance so she has to step to avoid falling over.
Also pay attention to your position. If you have had problems with this horse you may be riding defensively

I found when my warmblood started the reversing trick and any pressure from stick or leg sent him vertical,I became defensive. When he resisted the leg and slowed to nap I would lean forward,brace my legs......basically applying the aids for reverse!
Now when I feel him puckering for a paddy(getting rare these days:)) I make sure I lean back and drive the back end. Or I hang off the side to turn him and reverse him into benches,holly bushes,gorse or up a steep slope!:D
 
Try thinking turn on the haunches rather than pulling the head round. You could practice this in the school until it's second nature to her.

I would try ringing RM or MP and explain the situation, bearing mind that she doesn't do it every hack out and see what they say.
 
My young mare is nappy, usually at the same places on a ride. Got to the stage where if I tapped her with a stick she'd kick out and if I put pressure on with my legs we'd get more of what I was getting ie backwards x 10.
I tried a whipwhop but she just ignored it and shutdown. I did try jumping off and leading her which did work gained her confidence but I wanted to progress to riding her through it. I've had a spinal fusion so haven't much strength in my left leg and would be hot and bothered if I had to make her go forwards. A flick with the end of the reins either side of her withers often works. Whenever she shakes her head side to side I know she's given in!
I did try the turning in circles and disengaging to get her feet moving, both gave improvement for a short time.
I'm now wearing spurs and have to say the bu""er has much more respect for me. I tried them out in the school first and we did have a couple of explosions but now she knows they are there I very rarely need to apply them. If she stops now I give her a couple of seconds to 'chill' and think things through rather than getting straight after her. This calms the situation so I can ask for forward movement calmly with my voice and light leg aids. If she doesn't move the spurs are applied with a few vocals! I'm a quiet rider and find it out of character to be loud but growling at her does get the desired response.
 
Mine did exactly the same thing, even to the point where he would virtually sit down so he didn't have to go forward - if I gave him a smack he would buck or rear.

My instructor told me what to do and we stopped it in a couple of sessions after months and months of running backwards in the school.

1. Man up a bit - take a grip and deal with it (Yes that's what she said)
2. always carry a schooling whip and first of all, gently sqeeze it - it does move! and annoys them, almost like a fly in on them so they move.
3. If that fails, sit up tall, halve halt with your tummy to balance you and start to tap, tap tap repeatedly with the schooling whip. It annoys them more and they move forward.

It worked, like I said, in just a couple of sessions - but the key is to know when they are just about to do it, and don't alow them to even think about about.
 
My boy used to do it - a crack on his backside wouldnt even stop him (he just went faster)

The way I cured, I made him go backwards more, just keep asking for rein back until you are happy that your control & then send forwards. My boy no longer does it, he does try it but as soon as he remembers me asking for the rein back aid he thinks twice!

Good luck!
 
As the owner of a reversing mare myself, the only thing I can say is get off and lead her past whatever is the problem. There is no quick fix I'm afraid.

In my case, if I got to a point where my mare would stop, reverse and or mini rear, I would make her reverse for a bit more, to make her realise it was my decison and not hers. Get off, lead her for quite a while. ( she usually is like this on her own) I would then find somewhere suitable to get back on and go home, or walk her back home. It is not being defeatest, it is showing leadership. The worse thing you can do is whack them with a stick. I only ever did that once, on the very first day I had her and she showed me why I should never do that again!

I am lucky that my mare doesn't do it any more but it took a long time to sort her out on her own. In company she's absolutely fine. I've owned her for 4 years now.
 
I'm going to be controversial too....
One gelding I had would reverse back to test you, nothing worked that I tried, until in anger (I hate to say) I broke a branch off the nearest tree. Getting back on was fun as he constantly tried to move away from the rustling leaves and branches that followed him. Once on board the branch was so big it touched his bum and the ground. As soon as he tried to reverse on a I whacked him across the back side. He shot forward and I allowed him to go on at a spanking trot. I dropped the big branch but kept one of the smaller bits of it with its leaves attached. This was tucked under my leg. On the few occassions he tried it on after that I only had to tickle him and wave with the leafy branch to get him forward again.

I also had a fast reversing mare like yours who I found impossible to turn, she too would reverse back into cars, ditches, fences ect. She would brace her body and just bend her head and keep going backward. I didn't even think to try the branch thing with her, but a helpful passerby saw me in difficulty and offered help when she was really bad one day. He made me see there was turning a horse and there was "turning" a horse.

He initially made some suggestions for my tack - pop on a flash, a running martingale and change bit from loose ring snaffle to mullen mouth rubber pelham with 2 reins. Then he told me I was allowing her to escape through the shoulder as my reins were too long and I wasn't "making" her turn with enough incentive (my use of the whip was annoying rather than effective as she simply grunted and bucked when I used it). He promptly asked for a shot and in dispair at her I gave him my hat and helped him on. He then proceeded to give an invaluable lesson in managing her behaviour right there in the middle of a housing estate.
As soon as he got on I could tell this guy was a serious horseman.
He immediately sent her forward on a circle and shortened his reins until they were about 7 inches long, I kid you not!
Suddenly my mare was energized and moving better than I had ever seen her. When she baulked and tried to reverse to the left he stopped her, drew her nose to his leg with an open rein and with the dressage whip in the same hand really skelped her with it on her hock once and then her gaskin. She kicked out of course and I thought this guy is gonna get killed now!!
His weight and leg on was all down the side he was trying to turn her and after 2 hard skelps she jumped around and away from it and he just kept her going round on the spot. His outside rein kept a firm contact but the inside one was loose and he literally turned her 360 degrees on the spot like a polo pony. Much tighter than I had been able to do. He birled her about 6 times really fast, keeping her nose at his leg and using the whip and his leg to keep her hind quarters moving away. Then he stopped and sent her on quietly again. She went in a beautiful shape with self carriage I had never seen her with. Again and again she would try to nap the birling was repeated, always in the opposite direction from where she wanted to go.
The attempts got less and less and after 15 minutes she was going forward beautifully for him, showing some extensions and changing leading legs when asked. Her ears were pricked forward like I had never known.
He got off telling me she was a nice alpha mare that had been well schooled in the past but had been allowed off with too much. I got back on and he taught me how to do the same.
I never did get his name as he walked off but I 'll never forget how he changed that mare. Now when I see folk turning their nappy horses I too can see the circle they are making is much too big. It should be on the spot with the horse crossing their legs with the neck bent right round. He told me to ask the horse to bite his own bum and it helped me get it right.
I know this is not a politically correct or NH way of doing things ( I really winced when he cracked her with the stick) but it was effective when everything else was not. That mare had become bolshy, difficult and nappy to the point of being dangerous, this short sharp shock brought her back from the brink to become a good RC horse with a future.
 
My mare was stubborn, more leg the quicker she went backwards.

I tried 2 things...If I was in a 'safe place' I wouldnt hit her but I would use my schooling whip to 'annoy' her...she used to grunt with frustration!

second was to get off and lead her past, often stopping at the object or puddle or gateway to show her it was 'safe'. Wait til she started to breath again before moving on.

Hope this helps, horribly frustrating situation...good luck.
 
My mare did this too, into walls, cars people whatever was in her way. Went to a Richard maxwell demonstration and asked his advice and he uses an old minty Roberts trick, turn them around when possible and make them go backwards in the direction u want. I used to go around my village backwards some days, 3 years on she can still try it on but she soon knows as soon as I ask for rein back she goes forward!!
 
Mine does this. He is usually very level headed, and what I do is when I spot something he might take exception to I feel if he tenses, usually his ears are so pricked they practically touch. I relax. Let him stop and take stock of the situation. Once he teqlses said thing isn't a lion or crocodile he breathes and ears relax a bit and I can ask him to walk on. If I ask him to walk before he had breathed then we reverse, at speed.
However I feel most horses react a little quicker than mine!
 
angel7 said:
I'm going to be controversial too....
One gelding I had would reverse back to test you, nothing worked that I tried, until in anger (I hate to say) I broke a branch off the nearest tree. Getting back on was fun as he constantly tried to move away from the rustling leaves and branches that followed him. Once on board the branch was so big it touched his bum and the ground. As soon as he tried to reverse on a I whacked him across the back side. He shot forward and I allowed him to go on at a spanking trot. I dropped the big branch but kept one of the smaller bits of it with its leaves attached. This was tucked under my leg. On the few occassions he tried it on after that I only had to tickle him and wave with the leafy branch to get him forward again.

I also had a fast reversing mare like yours who I found impossible to turn, she too would reverse back into cars, ditches, fences ect. She would brace her body and just bend her head and keep going backward. I didn't even think to try the branch thing with her, but a helpful passerby saw me in difficulty and offered help when she was really bad one day. He made me see there was turning a horse and there was "turning" a horse.

He initially made some suggestions for my tack - pop on a flash, a running martingale and change bit from loose ring snaffle to mullen mouth rubber pelham with 2 reins. Then he told me I was allowing her to escape through the shoulder as my reins were too long and I wasn't "making" her turn with enough incentive (my use of the whip was annoying rather than effective as she simply grunted and bucked when I used it). He promptly asked for a shot and in dispair at her I gave him my hat and helped him on. He then proceeded to give an invaluable lesson in managing her behaviour right there in the middle of a housing estate.
As soon as he got on I could tell this guy was a serious horseman.
He immediately sent her forward on a circle and shortened his reins until they were about 7 inches long, I kid you not!
Suddenly my mare was energized and moving better than I had ever seen her. When she baulked and tried to reverse to the left he stopped her, drew her nose to his leg with an open rein and with the dressage whip in the same hand really skelped her with it on her hock once and then her gaskin. She kicked out of course and I thought this guy is gonna get killed now!!
His weight and leg on was all down the side he was trying to turn her and after 2 hard skelps she jumped around and away from it and he just kept her going round on the spot. His outside rein kept a firm contact but the inside one was loose and he literally turned her 360 degrees on the spot like a polo pony. Much tighter than I had been able to do. He birled her about 6 times really fast, keeping her nose at his leg and using the whip and his leg to keep her hind quarters moving away. Then he stopped and sent her on quietly again. She went in a beautiful shape with self carriage I had never seen her with. Again and again she would try to nap the birling was repeated, always in the opposite direction from where she wanted to go.
The attempts got less and less and after 15 minutes she was going forward beautifully for him, showing some extensions and changing leading legs when asked. Her ears were pricked forward like I had never known.
He got off telling me she was a nice alpha mare that had been well schooled in the past but had been allowed off with too much. I got back on and he taught me how to do the same.
I never did get his name as he walked off but I 'll never forget how he changed that mare. Now when I see folk turning their nappy horses I too can see the circle they are making is much too big. It should be on the spot with the horse crossing their legs with the neck bent right round. He told me to ask the horse to bite his own bum and it helped me get it right.
I know this is not a politically correct or NH way of doing things ( I really winced when he cracked her with the stick) but it was effective when everything else was not. That mare had become bolshy, difficult and nappy to the point of being dangerous, this short sharp shock brought her back from the brink to become a good RC horse with a future.
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This to me sounds like he did what it took to effect a disengagement of the hindquarters, he knew what he needed to do and made sure she did it.
 
Exactly - you've managed to sum it up much in less words than me!
It was simply made clear to her that the nicest option was to do what was asked!

I did see Richard Maxwell at a demo with one of his own horses that reversed constantly and would go up and over if pushed on. Even he wasn't able to cure it properly over several years and admitted the horse was not hacked out as it was too dangerous. It was only ridden in the school for dressage or jumping and at demos.
He was very frank and said if the horse really can't cope with what is being asked of it, is it fair to keep on asking? He said he did suggest other careers for horses like this (like driving or dressage) or PST if very dangerous as its simply not worth your life for the sake of a hack!
Found him quite refreshing TBH.
 
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