Straightness Training?

[MuddyMonster]

I've been hearing more & more about 'Straightness Training' and just wondered if anyone has used this? If so, how have you found it?

I understand that it's based around a home study programme that you pay to enroll in so to speak, but I don't know how much the 'average' rider would progress without hands on tuition - which along with the cost, has put me off signing up just yet.

Thoughts?

 

[PorkChop]

I looked into it, wondering what it was, because I kept seeing it mentioned.

Tbh it is good old fashioned correct training imho, nothing ground breaking.

Don't get me wrong, I very much approve, but don't understand why it needs a new, specific name

 

[wench]

The concept looks very good, you get instructions and feedback on what your doing. Trouble is its too expensive!

 

[JFTDWS]

Don't get me wrong, I very much approve, but don't understand why it needs a new, specific name

Because that's how you make money out of it

I'm interested in seeing some demos but probably wouldn't sign up to the home study side of things.

 

[YasandCrystal]

I use a straightness trainer. It's basically very classical training, enabling the horse from the start. On the training pyramid 'straightness' comes along way in in the BHS training regime. Straightness teachers believe it is an essential training right from the first days of training and beyond.
The TTT (Training the Teachers of Tomorrow) in Guildford are committed to straightness and classical training. They have some fantastic clinics you can attend as auditor/spectator cheaply and learn so much, as do the Dovecote Stables in Oxford. I have attended Charles de Kunffy, Gerd Hershmann and Andrew Murphy clinics and have booked to watch Philippe Karl in Daventry. There are some great explanatory videos on YouTube by Maijke de Jung which explain the principles of straightness training. Manola Mendez has a facebook page and generously shares some such informative videos of his inhand work there. He makes it look so effortless.
I also attend ridden clinics with Patrice Edwards held at Barrow Farm RDA Centre and Bromley Hall, colchester Essex regularly, she is just brilliant and so intuitive giving you the lesson you and your horse need at that time.
I hope this helps.

 

[tallyho!]

I think it's fantastically packaged for the modern rider and shouldn't be dismissed.

At first I was terribly confused by it too considering it looked very much like PK that I had seen before and wasn't sure which angle it was coming from, much less what it wanted to achieve.

However, if you are into academic teachings of the classical school and want to learn how to get your horse to work from it's core and really lift, then this (or any other classical training offshoot) is for you. For me the breakdown of component parts of forehand, core and quarters in relation to how they move with each other is poetry and cannot be rivalled.

I've never done "Marijkede Jong - Straightness Training" and so cannot promote it. However, I wholeheartedly promote the classical way. I'm just pleased that it's been made accessible.

 

[YasandCrystal]

I agree wholeheartedly Tallyho it is great that it has been made so accessible and to me that the benefits of the training are so evident.
I have been welcomed at the TTT to the clinics as spectator and the wonderful Charles de Kunffy is as happy to answer my naive questions as he is significant ones of great riders. The passion of these great trainers is so obvious in the generous way they share their knowledge for future generations. It's just magical to watch rider after rider and horse come in for their clinic session and leave with such improvement having been made.

 

[JFTDWS]

I use a straightness trainer. It's basically very classical training, enabling the horse from the start. On the training pyramid 'straightness' comes along way in in the BHS training regime. Straightness teachers believe it is an essential training right from the first days of training and beyond.
The TTT (Training the Teachers of Tomorrow) in Guildford are committed to straightness and classical training. They have some fantastic clinics you can attend as auditor/spectator cheaply and learn so much, as do the Dovecote Stables in Oxford. I have attended Charles de Kunffy, Gerd Hershmann and Andrew Murphy clinics and have booked to watch Philippe Karl in Daventry. There are some great explanatory videos on YouTube by Maijke de Jung which explain the principles of straightness training. Manola Mendez has a facebook page and generously shares some such informative videos of his inhand work there. He makes it look so effortless.
I also attend ridden clinics with Patrice Edwards held at Barrow Farm RDA Centre and Bromley Hall, colchester Essex regularly, she is just brilliant and so intuitive giving you the lesson you and your horse need at that time.
I hope this helps.

Do they publish the clinics at Barrow Farm? I'm tempted to come and watch.

Also if you're going to see CdK/AM/Gerd in March at the Dovecote, I may see you there

 

[YasandCrystal]

The next Barrow Farm Patrice clinic is on 31st April. She will be doing a lecture I expect on the Saturday evening usually 6.30 pm. Her lectures are very good too. I will send you my trainers facebook page and you can confirm via her as she arranges the clinic. I am riding my Dales youngster at the Bromley Hall clinic on the Saturday.
I attended last year's Dovecote trio clinic so do not plan to go this time but I am going to the Wednesday advanced clinic day of Philippe Karl's clinic at Daventry on 27th April. I also fancy the Arthur Kottas clinic day at the TtT on 4th July.

https://www.facebook.com/StraightForwardEquitation/?ref=ts&fref=ts

 

[JFTDWS]

Thanks - lecture sounds good. Slightly tempted to come and stalk your little Dales in Colchester too.

Kottas I'd definitely like to see. I may have to take a trip to the TTT then

 

[YasandCrystal]

My Dales was a black demon at the clinic last weekend. Patrice was getting me to keep his neck straight at all costs to stop him swinging along with his neck on his forehand as is natural to him. He was rearing and bucking, broncing, kicking out at the touch of the whip, everyone was shocked at how feisty he was and vehemently objecting. Anyway after a challenging session I rode him at home on Wednesday to practice the lesson learnt and he was perfect, no objection whatsoever to the straight neck. I was so pleased with him as Patrice guessed it would take 6 or 7 reinforcement sessions. I can't wait for my next clinic lesson.

 

[JFTDWS]

Ha, he sounds super fun. He obviously learnt his lesson, but I do like a little attitude along the way

I train with one of Gerd's students (amongst other things) in Suffolk, who's really into straightness. It's surprisingly difficult to ride truly straight, or with micro-bend - you can cheat so much more easily with more bend.

 

[Cortez]

I'm all for people improving their knowledge and advancing in their training, but surely straightness is one of the principle goals of all training and should be installed from the very beginning? It's not some magical new thing that has suddenly been discovered, and paying money for insights that should be fundamental seems a very neat marketing trick. Save your money folks and find a decent instructor, and ride your horses "calm, forwards and STRAIGHT" as you are supposed to do.

 

[JFTDWS]

It's hard to ride a horse straight that's not straight to start with though... There is an element of correction and you need someone who appreciates that for decent training. It's my experience that, around here, not many do...

That said, if you're talking about the online stuff, I entirely agree. I think it's brilliantly marketed to part people from their money for nothing much more than common sense.

 

[JFTDWS]

Although, having said that, I know quite a few people who could use a big dose of common sense...

 

[Cortez]

Although, having said that, I know quite a few people who could use a big dose of common sense...

Very true.......^^^

I would say that most exercises are actually designed to straighten horses, the vast majority of which are born crooked, or one-sided if you prefer. Why on earth do people think we spend so much time doing circles, lateral movements, shoulder in, etc.? They are all to straighten the horse as well as to make him supple.

And you can't learn to ride or train from watching a video on YouTube.

 

[JFTDWS]

Ah see I strongly believe a lot of the "trainers" round here ride the movements purely to show them in tests, if they ride them at all... And then there are the pseudo-classical set who just sit there, doing nothing at all, horse ploughing into the ground - but they talk the talk so they must be good, right?! I see some frightening sights :eek3:

I learnt to put eyeliner on from a video on youtube... Riding a horse can't be much harder, can it?

 

[YasandCrystal]

I agree with you Cortez but it is so easy to ride the crookedness without correcting it. A good trainer will coach the correction and suggest the necessary exercises to help straighten in a sympathetic way.

 

[Simon Battram]

This is the issue I have been voicing for a long time.

On the Scales of Training that BD et al are saying we absolutely must adhere to then straightness is point 5 out of 6. Apparently before reaching this we have looseness and swing through the body, an even contact etc etc. Really? simply put no.

This is fundamentally wrong in my honest opinion. Straightness should be starting to be addressed from day 1, even in the backing and breaking stage on the lunge. It is an ongoing topic and should be in the riders mind in every session, be that in-hand, lunge or ridden. Every horse is one sided, there are none you are born 'straight' just in the same way the rider should look to the 'straightness' (evenness) in themselves.

I have seen some of the work from the Dutch lady and to be honest its pretty good but it is just good old fashioned classical work. Its nothing new and she is just making a living so not a problem.

The better suggestion would be to find a decent trainer, one with solid credentials and a really sound knowledge of training and get some hands on in depth help face to face. Watching on line stuff can be a part of the learning curve but it cannot teach feel for example.

 

[Goldenstar]

There's nothing new in this except the modern marketing hype .
I trained in a big training centre it's nearly forty years ago at the end if the school was a big sign it said ride your horse forwards and keep him straight .

The scales of training appear to be often misunderstood it's an aid to understanding how the horse improves the order in which things drop into place if you try to straighten a horse with no sense of rhythm you won't get far once they begin to understand rhythm you can influence their suppleness more easily .
But of course you don't work for one of the scale points to exclusion of all others anyone who is teaching that off track .
Personally I don't like the word straight it's a stiff unyielding word that does not express that straightness ( as we think about it with horses ) is often on a curve and it's about symmetry and the evenness of how the horse learns to use it's body .
Because horse are born crooked what they call on the contingent the natural crookedness of the horse you work on it all the horses life .
I do agree that lots of people train for the tests now there is of course a role for learning test craft but as an add on if your not getting good consistent training on how to train your horse from a trainer whose committed to improving riders in the long term you won't get far.

 

[Bernster]

I'm interested in this but in two minds. I do know a few people who rate it though.

I agree that it seems to be what we all strive for but if the marijke do Jong version explains it in a helpful way for amateurs, then it's a good marketing trick and may well be worth looking into, even if it is just to supplement lessons. would be interested in hearing from people who've done that programme.

I downloaded the free e book which made sense but didn't really have much in the way of training tips, am a bit on the fence as to whether I'll go for the home study thing. I'm hoping to have some lessons with someone who has a similar approach which I'm sure will be more useful.

 

[MuddyMonster]

I downloaded the e-book too Bernstar, but like you struggled to take the information into actual 'how to'. The theory is one thing, but applying it in the school when it's new to me is quite another ...!

Maybe I'll investigate further & look into other like minded instructors locally and see how we get on.

 

[Simon Battram]

My Dales was a black demon at the clinic last weekend. Patrice was getting me to keep his neck straight at all costs to stop him swinging along with his neck on his forehand as is natural to him. He was rearing and bucking, broncing, kicking out at the touch of the whip, everyone was shocked at how feisty he was and vehemently objecting.

If I saw this scenario, with a horse rejecting and complaining so obviously to what is being asked then I would sincerely question what the teacher was asking the horse to do.....

 

[Simon Battram]

if you try to straighten a horse with no sense of rhythm you won't get far once they begin to understand rhythm you can influence their suppleness more easily .

However, if they are crooked then you will not get them supple and you will have no rhythm.

Personally I don't like the word straight it's a stiff unyielding word that does not express that straightness ( as we think about it with horses ) is often on a curve and it's about symmetry and the evenness of how the horse learns to use it's body .

Its interesting how we all perceive words. I respect your comment however I see it totally the opposite way. A crooked horse is stiff, tight and out of balance; a straight horse is balanced, upright, correctly aligned which means you have looseness over the back and through the body and the horse flows along.

 

[Goldenstar]

However, if they are crooked then you will not get them supple and you will have no rhythm.



Its interesting how we all perceive words. I respect your comment however I see it totally the opposite way. A crooked horse is stiff, tight and out of balance; a straight horse is balanced, upright, correctly aligned which means you have looseness over the back and through the body and the horse flows along.

Something that's straight is not bent or curved if you like that word better .
A straight horse may be very stiff and lack lateral suppleness .
I used to look after a horse like this very very straight very correct to look at if a little limited in his scope and when you got on him you discovered why ,he had been trained with no lateral suppleness I learnt a lot from that horse .
You have to start with rhythm it's easy to influence the thing easiest for the horse to learn about when your teaching it that the rider influences it with their body .
Like I said before the scale of training are not a rigid you train this and then you train that type of thing .
And I have never said that straightness is not important but what we mean by straightness in a horse is not the horse being straight it's the horse being even in how it can bend its body over it's back and laterally .
That's why I don't like the word straightness .

 

[Wheels]

Whenever these types of thread come up there are always those who think it's 'just common sense' or 'tried and tested' or people who have always done it this way etc.

However - the vast majority of trainers I have come across do not apply this type of work at all. It's all very well saying find a trainer who understands and who works like this but it's not easy! When I moved location it took me 5 years (yes 5 years!) to find a trainer who could help me with this type of stuff, they really are very few and far between!

For those people not born into riding or those that have grown up with teachers who do not teach this type of stuff then I think straightness training and other forms of in-hand type work is a difficult process to learn and I think it's good to watch videos, dvds, read books or whatever to have an idea of the process and go and experiment with!

I do agree that a teacher is necessary for the finer mechanics of it all but certainly to open peoples eyes to this kind of work then Straightness Training is doing a good job

 

[tallyho!]

However, if they are crooked then you will not get them supple and you will have no rhythm.



Its interesting how we all perceive words. I respect your comment however I see it totally the opposite way. A crooked horse is stiff, tight and out of balance; a straight horse is balanced, upright, correctly aligned which means you have looseness over the back and through the body and the horse flows along.

Something that's straight is not bent or curved if you like that word better .
A straight horse may be very stiff and lack lateral suppleness .
I used to look after a horse like this very very straight very correct to look at if a little limited in his scope and when you got on him you discovered why ,he had been trained with no lateral suppleness I learnt a lot from that horse .
You have to start with rhythm it's easy to influence the thing easiest for the horse to learn about when your teaching it that the rider influences it with their body .
Like I said before the scale of training are not a rigid you train this and then you train that type of thing .
And I have never said that straightness is not important but what we mean by straightness in a horse is not the horse being straight it's the horse being even in how it can bend its body over it's back and laterally .
That's why I don't like the word straightness .

It's semantics... you are both talking about the same thing it seems.

Nowhere in riding have I seen the word "straightness" to describe a stiff horse. In riding sense, the word straight connotes movement in harmony, suppleness and balance which a stiff horse cannot do as both of you have said.

Whether you like the word or not, it is used in very many historical books from Xenophon through the ages to Froissard, La Gueriniere, Oliviera and modern masters. You can't just dismiss a word if you don't like it... especially when you seem to agree what it essentially means - a horse that is sufficiently balanced to align it's body and move forward and straight under a rider - something surely everyone strives to do.

Seems to me that it's an argument for arguments sake.

 

[JFTDWS]

Seems to me that it's an argument for arguments sake.

Isn't that what HHO is for?

 

[YasandCrystal]

The difference in temperament in a horse who is worked with straightness training is also astounding. Straightness brings with it a calm way of going, no falling in or out of the shoulder, enabling the swing of the barrel, a light forehand. I detest any form of force in training so this enabling pathway is exactly right for me. Trainers who understand straightness are in my experience far and few between.

 

[MotherOfChickens]

Coming in from the marketing angle, there's so many 'classical' trainers constantly moaning that they can't make any money from what they do, they should take a leaf out of MdJ's book-or web site as I think how she's approaching her business is great.

I'm no big expert but her in hand stuff is very nice. And yes, its all very well to say its common sense/back in the day we were all taught it (certainly not true from my back in the day) bla bla but the number of people teaching this stuff are still very few and far between. It is difficult to take it from web to school but at least these people are now aware there's a different way and even a few lessons can be a massive help ime.