Strange pony behaviour - at wits end :(

Toffee_monster

Toffee_monster

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I'm at my wits end with my pony and not sure where to turn.

I purchased / rescued him on September as a very obese, verging on lami pony from someone who he had scared and been left for months.
He came home a nervous wreck and horribly bolshy, and very food possessive. Lost 100kg with muzzling and light exercise and was a lot happier and easier to handle.

In November we moved to a yard closer to home as the mud was terrible already. its a very small private place. just me, YO and good friend of YO. very quiet place, no arena but i love it. He settled really well at fist but then i broke him In to drive and his behaviour outside of his work started to go downhill. He would walk through the mains electric fencing to stand at the muck heap to munch wet straw, then brake the other fence when he wanted to come in. Then he started becoming difficult to turn out once we barricaded the muck heap off with triple strands.

He would plant himself or turn himself round and run back to stable. When we did get him out he would stand in the field totally miserable, he stopped Playing with his mates and was so sad. So I brought him in and after a week he was a happy thing again. He loves his stable and we never heard a peep out of him. He went out every other day but them developed terrible mud fever and was in 24/7 which he was fine with

Until the other day I got a call (one of many I've received telling me how naughty he is being) saying he was
Going nuts in the stable, kicking the wall and trying to knock it down and that the wall was Breaking up. He is walked out daily and worked twice a week at the moment and has been so chilled out so god knows what got into him. When I got there to move him round into a different stable he was fine ?!?!

But we have gone back to having him turned out for a few hours a day and yesterday I was told how naughty he is to bring in and has to be brought in on his own!?

Through all of this he has worked fantastically. He absolutely loves his work and 8 weeks in harness has given me a wonderful trier and I have high hopes for him, but what about his behaviour ?

I can't work him In the week as we don't have a school, which I didn't think would matter but now I don't know. He is 13.2hh and has lost about 100kg in the time I've had him and is back on a diet to lose some more before spring. He has a mug of spillers light balancer a day and magnesium. I weigh out his hay and give him some oat straw on the floor to keep him nibbling as he is monstrous without food. I never see this naughty behaviour, or if I do I don't make a big thing of anything.

I don't know if it could be ulcers, or if he is just unhappy where he is ? Yes he is a cheeky pony but constant bad news about his behaviour when I'm not there is upsetting me so much. And yes I have spent days up there seeing how he is and apart from the fence issue he is fine for me.

Any ideas. He is known as the naughty destructive pony by the yard owner and manager and I'm losing the will. My husband says sell him to someone who can work him more but I love him to bits and I think we are a good team. Do some horses need more work than others ?
 
Some horses do need more stimulation than others - but that may not be the issue here.

It sounds like he might be one of those ponies who need really clear boudaries and leadership. You have established that with him and so he behaves when you are around. But when he is handled by others it breaks down again.

We have a pony a bit like this at our yard. (Not mine before anyone wonders!). He can be very difficult and bolshy which makes people approach him as if they are scared of him or worried about what he might do. Which in turn makes him act up. If you are just really firm and consistent with him he will behave. He's just been used to getting his own way for too long.

Might it be worth chatting to your YO and seeing if there might be any element of this? You may end up having to move to somewhere with staff for a while if that is what it takes. Selling him on - if this is what it is - will only make matters worse.

Sadly once ponies have it into thier head that they have to be leader then it is quitye difficult to convince them otherwise. Horses are more malleable- ponies are stubborn little so and so's!
 
Hmm I owned my last mare for 14 years and had her in loads of different yards and at home. She was always the most popular horse on the yard, lovely manners and no issues at all. Until I moved to one yard where they claimed she was attacking folk when they went in the field to get their horses. It was so out of character I still can't really believe it and I also never saw the behaviour. They kicked me off the yard with 24 hours notice (bizarre) and I moved her to my friend's place and she was completely fine again. She has moved 8 times with no issues at all yet this puzzling one in the middle.

I think if I were you I'd try moving him somewhere else and see if he improves. If you go somewhere with a school at least you will be able to work him during the week. He may just be hungry and will be able to eat more if in full work so it might all resolve easily.

Good luck.
 
First thing that strikes me is that 100kg is an awful lot of weight loss for the time period, & he must have been pretty hungry to accomplish it. And hunger, like boredom, is a good way to pick up bad behavior. And possibly ulcers. And how experienced is the person saying he's difficult to bring in etc?
 
His behaviour was fine on the main diet. He was VERY obese to the point that it affected how he walked. And the weight loss has been on the advice and support of the vet and farrier. He hasn't been starved, normal rations of hay when in and muzzled for 12 hours a day and worked (although not so much now ) although he is very food orientated.

YO works on another yard aswell and although tiny, she is experienced !?
 
I'm really not trying to make excuses for him, he isn't an easy pony but he seems to be Jekyll and Hyde when I'm not there

Most recently he is being "naughty" by kicking the door when people are around because his new stable is not ideally right next to the hay store. I really don't know what to think :(
 
I would be suspicious aswell. Is there any where you could watch from so that the pony doesnt know you are there ?.
I would be thinking about moving rather than selling , it sounds like you love him so trust your instincts not the wittering from others .
 
I have never been on a yard without permanent fencing! Is the fencing kept tight with a fully charged battery at all times? If he is rugged and that's why I'd take the rug off so he gets a zap. Experience doesn't make YOs less nutty. If they have taken against him every little thing will be pointed out.
 
Move him. I have a lovely gelding here who has never caused me any trouble other than being able to limbo under electric fencing to get to the lush grass that he is not allowed (laminitis prone). When he moved here his owner said that at his last yard the YO said he was really badly behaved and dangerous. That he would rear up at him and box etc. Even my farrier who shod him at his last yard said he was a nightmare. Yet, from the day he arrived at my yard he has been an absolute angel to handle, shoe and ride. A few months after he arrived here, his owner got talking to one of the liveries at her old yard who told her how he was always left until last to be turned out, and then the YO would go into his stable with a schooling whip and chase him around. He was only allowed out of his stable when he retreated to the back of it and stood still! :mad: No wonder when I went to fetch him from there he leapt onto the lorry with more gusto than I have ever seen before. He couldn't wait to get out of there, poor thing.

I suspect that there is something making your pony very unhappy where he is.
 
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shame you can't set up a webcam really... they get to the root of so many problems. My husband set his iphone up in one of our kennels because we've got no power points in there and it showed something we least expected. Wouldn't tell anyone your doing it though in case someone at the yard is to blame.

I'd be checking for vermin one of mine used to freak completely if she saw a rat.
 
My guess, like others have said, is that your pony isn't happy on the yard.

Being on the wrong yard has had major influences on my horses behaviour. On one yard, my new horse was a stressy nightmare until I discovered that the YO was screaming at the horses when no one was around.
Another time, my three horses became a nightmare to handle at a new yard and the youngster then got colic.

On both occasions, I moved them promptly and instantly, they returned to their former chilled out personalities.
Current mare is even very particular about which stable she has and makes her preference very clear.
 
Wagtail said:
Move him. I have a lovely gelding here who has never caused me any trouble other than being able to limbo under electric fencing to get to the lush grass that he is not allowed (laminitis prone). When he moved here his owner said that at his last yard the YO said he was really badly behaved and dangerous. That he would rear up at him and box etc. Even my farrier who shod him at his last yard said he was a nightmare. Yet, from the day he arrived at my yard he has been an absolute angel to handle, shoe and ride. A few months after he arrived here, his owner got talking to one of the liveries at her old yard who told her how he was always left until last to be turned out, and then the YO would go into his stable with a schooling whip and chase him around. He was only allowed out of his stable when he retreated to the back of it and stood still! :mad: No wonder when I went to fetch him from there he leapt onto the lorry with more gusto than I have ever seen before. He couldn't wait to get out of there, poor thing.

I suspect that there is something making your pony very unhappy where he is.
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That made me cry, no way would I want anyone to raise a whip at my boy like that :( (One of my x-sharers was caught doing something similar to my boy, with a barging bar, headcollar..... only at his face, the result was a horse who would leave the ground at the sound of someone dropping a brush, took a year for him to get over it, I was distraught when I found out) Your horse also sounds so forgiving.
 
12 hours muzzled (if he can't eat at all) is a very long time and no quality of life at all and to me, it seems as if you've been in too much of a rush to lose that weight rather than take it slower but have a happier pony. Also he could be a workaholic so he is just thoroughly bored when you're not there. I echo moving him to somewhere you can ride/work him more often, he actually sounds a treasure.

BTW, it could well be he gets his naughty reputation because to deal with him means extra work and effort for the YO which they're not used to with their own although I admit, there is nothing more frustrating than something which damages fences/boxes when there's no need; understandable if he's got himself cast or something but not an every day occurrence.
 
I would look at moving yards too.

My girl was so laid back, she used to nanny my YO'S youngsters. I moved her to a different yard, she was fine at first, they were living out in a big herd and then it all changed when they moved into their winter paddocks. My girl used to love being out, she would never be by the gate and would drag her feet coming in. Here she was charging round like a loon, waiting by her gate and not eating. When I caught her she would bronc, rear and canter sidewards in. I couldn't tie her on the yard anymore, she had to go in the menage, even then she would usually just run round and round. Everyone used to shout at her and she constantly broke out of her field. I moved back to my old yard last weekend and in a week I have my old girl back. She still rushes to come in (Just a habit now she needs to get out off) but doesn't wait near the gate, doesn't bronc or rear, can be tied on the yard and is lovely to handle again.
 
Why don't you ask them to film the bad behaviour on their phone next time it occurs. Seems strange that you have never witnessed it. I have a bargy, rude pony that needs firm handling and I know he can be a right ****** for my friend who is somewhat more soft with him than I am. Could you maybe show the others what works for you with him so he gets more consistent handling?
 
OP I read your post with a feeling of recognition. I have a small pony who also has had laminitis, been on a diet, and lost weight. He also had behavioural issues.
He is fine with me but not so good with others, he can be a cheeky little devil.
It was most noticeable when we were at a show last summer. I left him with OH for ten minutes while I went to the loo, and he spent ten minutes charging about, towing OH about, kicking, trying to bite. When I took hold of the lead rope once more, he turned back into an angel. I'm not saying I am a brilliant horsewoman, quite the opposite. It's just that pony & I have an understanding, I have handled him more than OH and we are used to each other.
I am also the one who works him, and he mostly enjoys that work. So he looks upon me as a person to be respected becuase of that. Maybe your pony is the same?
 
Even if there's nothing untoward happening, some yards just have an energy or a feel that an individual horse might not like. They are neurotic, sensitive beasts.

Also, with the handling, as others have said, a horse might act completely different with you than with someone else. At one yard I kept mine at for a bit, one of the workers had fairly useless horse handling skills and used to tell me how pushy and bolshy my horse was. This was news to me. But they're not cars. Even a well-trained schoolmaster will take each new handler as they come and just because your horse behaves with people who know what they're doing doesn't mean he will if they don't.
 
Maesfen said:
12 hours muzzled (if he can't eat at all) is a very long time and no quality of life at all and to me, it seems as if you've been in too much of a rush to lose that weight rather than take it slower but have a happier pony. Also he could be a workaholic so he is just thoroughly bored when you're not there. I echo moving him to somewhere you can ride/work him more often, he actually sounds a treasure.

BTW, it could well be he gets his naughty reputation because to deal with him means extra work and effort for the YO which they're not used to with their own although I admit, there is nothing more frustrating than something which damages fences/boxes when there's no need; understandable if he's got himself cast or something but not an every day occurrence.
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He can eat when muzzled, they dont stop them eating totally. And he hasnt been muzzled since the start of november, so i doubt very much its that. 510kg is not good for a 13.2hh pony so losing the bulk of that weight was very important, He was not starved. He has 5kg of hay per day now and some oat straw to nibble on, but he is grumpy unless constantly stuffing his face, which obviously he cannot do if he is to stay healthy. Weve worked damn hard to control the weight and laminitis and both vet and farrier agree that if he hadnt have lost the weight he would have crippled with lamiitis.

He isnt a ridden pony so would just mainly be lunging in a school if i move (unless large enough for us to drive in), but he really does love his work.
 
I bet this is about work and stimulation ,
I bet if he was worked hard this behaviour would stop he sounds just like my driving cob who loves being in hard work he's frankly a pain in the behind when he's not.
When you are not there hes getting minimal attention and the other horses are getting attention from their humans .
I think you will need to move to somewhere with a decent school big enough to drive in would be best I can work my 16.1 in a 60 by 30 and my friend works her ponies fine in a 60 by 20 if you could drive out twice a week drive in the school twice a week and lunge / long rien twice a week I think he will be a different pony .
Also the more work you give him the relaxed the diet can be and that makes for more settled horses.
You could also try some trick training to exercise his mind I think there's a book teach your horse tricks .
 
How about moving yards? If the YO and friend are slightly nervous and he's used to being bolshy then things could be spiralling out of control with them. It's great that he's fine with you as it shows he can learn respect and can be a nice boy. Food orientated ponies can be frustrating and door kicking is terribly annoying. Do people feed him to stop him kicking as that is a sure fire way of him kicking more. Could you double/triple net his hay so it takes him longer to eat it? Swede on a rope? Anything to keep him interested on his food longer. Experienced doesn't mean that your YO can handle anything. Have you seen her with him? He has probably learnt he can muck about with her hence the being naughty when led.

And so what if he has to be led on his own? I consider it a bonus if horses can be led together and only do it with horses I know won't kill each other. This might even be another issue where he doesn't like who he's being led with??

Going mental in the stable can be put down to a lot of things also. Was it just the once? Something could have upset or scared him - or he could have been having a hungry tantrum if he had no food and saw someone walk past with a boad of food maybe.

Reading the bit about him breaking out to food then being miserable when it was fenced off. He's either greedy & narked cos he can't get to it or he may possibly have an ulcer. Do some reading and see if there's some food or supplement you can buy that helps, or even get the vet and ask for Gatroguard or some such thing. Could be pricey but could be the difference here.

Sounds like a tricky situation. I would stick with him as he responds to you and you're doing the best by him. Potentially consider moving yards if they keep having a problem with him - they may even get fed up and ask you to leave so it's worth looking around just in case.
 
Toffee_monster said:
Until the other day I got a call (one of many I've received telling me how naughty he is being) saying he was
Going nuts in the stable, kicking the wall and trying to knock it down and that the wall was Breaking up. He is walked out daily and worked twice a week at the moment and has been so chilled out so god knows what got into him. When I got there to move him round into a different stable he was fine ?!?!

But we have gone back to having him turned out for a few hours a day and yesterday I was told how naughty he is to bring in and has to be brought in on his own!?
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I had the original problem with my mare when stabled. I never saw this behaviour and neither did my friends, but was reported back about the mare trying to take the stable down and couldn't continue. I took a day off and sat down in the coffee room just round the corner where she couldn't see me but I could see everyone going in and see what the difference was.
What transpired was that every time someone walked past she would call (she always says hello whether in field or stable). Where my friends and I would ignore and carry on, liveries would go over and say hello, fuss (and sometimes tidbit) then leave her. At this point for me she'd stay quiet and I could sort other horses out, then her no problems. For liveries, once they'd said hello and left she'd go nuts, booting stable and door, running in circles, screaming and rearing. Solution was to tell people to stop winding her up.

Answer to second... they should be doing that anyway.

I'd be looking at a different yard though if possible. We used to have lami-prone ponies turned out 24/7 in starvation paddocks. They still had grass in them, not completely bare and had hay twice daily. Out together would get more exercise and never muzzled due to the paddock being eaten down by another horse first or stripped out until the paddock was the right size.
I've previously had horses out muzzled in a large field and stabled for hours on end, not ideal and even if the yard had been perfect (which it certainly wasn't) I couldn't have justified keeping them there.
 
Have you thought about getting a qualified equine behaviourist out to try to help you figure out what is causing the behaviour? As you say, it is all very well saying that you should just move him, but finding somewhere, and somewhere nice, is not such an easy task. It may well be worth asking a behaviourist to come out and see if they can help you before uprooting him and moving him.

Good luck!
 
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