Strangles in Dartmoor Ponies

[Wishfilly]

https://www.devonlive.com/news/devon-news/dartmoor-ponies-hit-deadly-horse-5006912

Thought I would share this just in case anyone is in the area. It sounds like the ponies are being monitored, but it will be hard to contain on the moor.

And I bet there are lots of walkers up there who could unfortunately transmit it between herds.

 

[paddy555]

thanks for posting that in case anyone hasn't seen it. It would have been a more helpful press release if they had said whereabouts it was.

 

[Wishfilly]

From Facebook, it seems like the owners of the herd don't want it know that it is their herd with strangles, so there doesn't seem to have been any confirmation of the location from an official source.

Which, as you say, is unhelpful.

 

[paddy555]

From Facebook, it seems like the owners of the herd don't want it know that it is their herd with strangles, so there doesn't seem to have been any confirmation of the location from an official source.

Which, as you say, is unhelpful.

it's not unhelpful, it is extremely poor. Totally secretive. I remember the last time this happened, last Aug, people desperately asking on FB sites and the info. not being given out. One bloke was asking on a horse vet fb site again and again and they refused to give the info.

I know where it is and there is not a single notice up warning anyone. The local horse owners haven't been warned and I don't expect they will be. They weren't last time.

 

[Wishfilly]

it's not unhelpful, it is extremely poor. Totally secretive. I remember the last time this happened, last Aug, people desperately asking on FB sites and the info. not being given out. One bloke was asking on a horse vet fb site again and again and they refused to give the info.

I know where it is and there is not a single notice up warning anyone. The local horse owners haven't been warned and I don't expect they will be. They weren't last time.

That is very poor, I agree.

 

[Apizz2019]

I was shot down a few months ago when there was an outbreak on Dartmoor because I commented on a post from a riding school who were loaning ponies out and encouraging people to ride on Dartmoor.

I am a bit thoughtless sometimes and don't always think before I type but after commenting, which I probably could have articulated better than I did, I received a pm to say that outbreaks are common in herds on the moors and it's nothing to worry about. It happens more regularly than the general public know about or are made aware of.

I wasn't quite sure what to respond so thanked the individual for messaging me.

My personal opinion is that by being secretive about where this outbreak is, it presents a risk to riders and horse owners who won't know what areas to avoid and also walkers, who may not have knowledge of horses and may inadvertently spread it somehow if they come into contact with it.

I don't think it's anything to be ashamed of and I'd rather be forewarned to be able to take necessary precautions.

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

I heard about this on local BBC Radio Devon; I'm in Devon (East) and so nowhere near to Dartmoor - tho' can see it in the far distance - but I find it shocking nay downright negligent that there seems to have been a veil of secrecy drawn over the whole thing.

I have my own transport and could easily pop up to the Moors for a ride-out anytime (when lockdown over, obviously!) and had I not happened to have local radio on my bedroom clock-radio I would have known nothing about this!!

This could easily have put my horse - and also other liveries at my yard - at risk.

Totally not acceptable not to say which herds and which location(s) are affected.

Hoping the Exmoor ponies will be OK too........ likewise the several "conservation" herds that are around and in my local area and where I do ride. We have no way of knowing whether there is an issue with these either!

 

[Silver Clouds]

I'm not very local to Dartmoor, but close enough that I box down there for a long hack about six times a year (in 'normal' times). My sister also goes hiking there regularly, so I will let her know. I didn't know about the strangles outbreak, so thank you OP for posting this. I am careful with biosecurity when visiting as I have one horse who will try to make a beeline for any ponies he spots, and I have had to chase them away from my horsebox when I was tacking up (obviously didn't actually 'chase' them!). He would be quite happy to sniff noses or groom them, which I don't allow as I'm as concerned about giving them something as much as my horse catching anything.

Does anyone know what area of the moor this is?

 

[Wishfilly]

I agree, they ought to let people know the area of the moor which is affected. Hopefully at least yards in the immediate area have been informed- I though this was a legal requirement, but google tells me it's only "best practice".

 

[paddy555]

I was somewhat annoyed at the DPHT statement in the opening post to start with however, with the benefit of further information, I think we have to be very grateful to them for bringing it to the attention of the public.

Not sure why you think yards in the immediate area have been informed, Wishfully, not as far as I am aware. Should have been of course. I have had to dig deep to find out,

Having spoken at length to the Dartmoor commoners council the situation appears to be quite simply that they have not told the people because it is not a notifiable disease and therefore they do not have to.

They advised that all pony keepers (that is the people who own the feral herds) have been made aware and advised not to move ponies etc except for welfare reasons.

When I queried why details, or even the outbreak, was not being made known to the public it was because they had taken the advice of their vet and livestock protection officer.

The commoners council seemed to think it would be impossible to contact local domestic horse owners. I suggested notices on signposts but the National Park won't allow that.
I suggested a mailshot put through letter boxes but completely impossible.
After a lot of discussion we came up with a way that would enable local horse owners to be advised (it would not get all but certainly some of them). There were no costs attached to it.

I very much doubt it will happen but I am waiting to see if I get notified. (not putting details on here, I want to see if it happens first)

There is strangles in the pony herds and has been for many years. There was a flare up of the situation last summer and another one now.

Currently there is strangles in the Cornwood area, I believe that is on the common but cannot say which part. Also in a yard at or near Roborough common. No idea if that has just happened or has spread from the ferals . That doesn't mean of course that other areas are free.

Last summer there was an outbreak on Dr Blackall's drive, Mel Tor, Sharp Tor, Yar Tor, Corndon Tor and Corndon common.

The current outbreak is just further over and is Hameldown, Wind Tor, Bonehill, Pudsham Down and the top of Widecombe hill. The ponies from the Summer outbreak only have to walk about a mile along the road to get to to the current area and they do that on a daily basis so no surprise that it has spread. I know of at least 3 poorly ponies removed the this area, one confirmed by a vet.

There are several busy tourist car parks at the top of Widecombe hill. After that there is one wall with a cattle grid gate and then, the journey can continue. That is to Haytor. Tourist mecca. The main 3 tourist car parks are just the other side of that gate ie Saddle Tor, Haytor top and Haytor bottom car parks. Plus of course the endless cars parked along the road side. Should reach there just in time for the holiday season (athough I don't doubt it may well be there already in some of the ponies)

All 3 of the car parks in the Haytor area are frequented by ponies in constant search of titbits from tourists who stroke and cuddle them and then go home. So, if they are touching an infected pony it will be an added souvenir they take home from their visit to Dartmoor.

So yes MiJods their secrecy is putting domestic horses living on Dartmoor at risk and also the rest of you if horses either visit the moor or alternatively if horses living here go away to horse hospitals, shows, or are sold. There is of course the risk to vets, physios, farriers etc etc etc visiting yards on the moor with asymptomatic horses that innocent owners know nothing about and carrying strangles away from the moor when, if they were aware, they could be taking precautions.

 

[Wishfilly]

Not sure why you think yards in the immediate area have been informed, Wishfully, not as far as I am aware. Should have been of course. I have had to dig deep to find out,

I don't think anything. I said "hopefully", as in "I hope they have been".

Appreciate you sharing what you have found out, though.

There really needs to be a reliable way of informing tourists about the issue too- it's rare for people to get infected with strangles but not impossible. Surely some sort of signage ought to be allowed e.g. at car parks if it is a human health risk?

 

[paddy555]

I don't think anything. I said "hopefully", as in "I hope they have been".

Appreciate you sharing what you have found out, though.

I appreciate you said "hope"

"hope" seems to be sadly lacking ATM

 

[honetpot]

I was somewhat annoyed at the DPHT statement in the opening post to start with however, with the benefit of further information, I think we have to be very grateful to them for bringing it to the attention of the public.

Not sure why you think yards in the immediate area have been informed, Wishfully, not as far as I am aware. Should have been of course. I have had to dig deep to find out,

Having spoken at length to the Dartmoor commoners council the situation appears to be quite simply that they have not told the people because it is not a notifiable disease and therefore they do not have to.

They advised that all pony keepers (that is the people who own the feral herds) have been made aware and advised not to move ponies etc except for welfare reasons.

When I queried why details, or even the outbreak, was not being made known to the public it was because they had taken the advice of their vet and livestock protection officer.

The commoners council seemed to think it would be impossible to contact local domestic horse owners. I suggested notices on signposts but the National Park won't allow that.
I suggested a mailshot put through letter boxes but completely impossible.
After a lot of discussion we came up with a way that would enable local horse owners to be advised (it would not get all but certainly some of them). There were no costs attached to it.

I very much doubt it will happen but I am waiting to see if I get notified. (not putting details on here, I want to see if it happens first)

There is strangles in the pony herds and has been for many years. There was a flare up of the situation last summer and another one now.

Currently there is strangles in the Cornwood area, I believe that is on the common but cannot say which part. Also in a yard at or near Roborough common. No idea if that has just happened or has spread from the ferals . That doesn't mean of course that other areas are free.

Last summer there was an outbreak on Dr Blackall's drive, Mel Tor, Sharp Tor, Yar Tor, Corndon Tor and Corndon common.

The current outbreak is just further over and is Hameldown, Wind Tor, Bonehill, Pudsham Down and the top of Widecombe hill. The ponies from the Summer outbreak only have to walk about a mile along the road to get to to the current area and they do that on a daily basis so no surprise that it has spread. I know of at least 3 poorly ponies removed the this area, one confirmed by a vet.

There are several busy tourist car parks at the top of Widecombe hill. After that there is one wall with a cattle grid gate and then, the journey can continue. That is to Haytor. Tourist mecca. The main 3 tourist car parks are just the other side of that gate ie Saddle Tor, Haytor top and Haytor bottom car parks. Plus of course the endless cars parked along the road side. Should reach there just in time for the holiday season (athough I don't doubt it may well be there already in some of the ponies)

All 3 of the car parks in the Haytor area are frequented by ponies in constant search of titbits from tourists who stroke and cuddle them and then go home. So, if they are touching an infected pony it will be an added souvenir they take home from their visit to Dartmoor.

So yes MiJods their secrecy is putting domestic horses living on Dartmoor at risk and also the rest of you if horses either visit the moor or alternatively if horses living here go away to horse hospitals, shows, or are sold. There is of course the risk to vets, physios, farriers etc etc etc visiting yards on the moor with asymptomatic horses that innocent owners know nothing about and carrying strangles away from the moor when, if they were aware, they could be taking precautions.

Just out of interest, do domestic horses mix the with wild ponies. If everyone is following covid rules they should be washing or sanitizing their hands, and a lot of yards looked down to visitors anyway.
The virus doesn't spread that far in the air, keep 10 metres away and the chances of transmission horse to horse is unlikely.

There is a potential for all horses to be carrying strangles, not just the ones you know about. Good bio security should be a standard.

 

[Wishfilly]

Just out of interest, do domestic horses mix the with wild ponies. If everyone is following covid rules they should be washing or sanitizing their hands, and a lot of yards looked down to visitors anyway.
The virus doesn't spread that far in the air, keep 10 metres away and the chances of transmission horse to horse is unlikely.

There is a potential for all horses to be carrying strangles, not just the ones you know about. Good bio security should be a standard.

I'm not in the area anymore, but one of the risks is that e.g. walkers go past, feed a wild pony, and then come and scratch yours over the fence. There are a few yards I know of with hacking directly onto the moor, or access to the moor a short distance away. Personally, I'd obviously try to avoid contact, but equally I think it is useful to know if strangles is present in the area, so owners can be extra vigilant or decide not to hack in that area.

The ponies aren't wild- they are all owned by someone, who should theoretically take responsibility for their health. Personally, I think ponies with strangles ought to be taken off the moor until treated to avoid it spreading between herds, but that will never happen.

 

[planete]

Taking wild animals off the moor puts them under increased stress which can endanger their lives if they are already poorly. Catching, loading and travelling a feral animal involves massive stress in most cases.

 

[Wishfilly]

They're not wild, wild though. The vast majority of them will be taken off the moor during the drifts.

But brutally, it's not about the welfare of that individual animal- it's about the wider welfare of other ponies on the moor.

 

[paddy555]

Just out of interest, do domestic horses mix the with wild ponies. If everyone is following covid rules they should be washing or sanitizing their hands, and a lot of yards looked down to visitors anyway.
The virus doesn't spread that far in the air, keep 10 metres away and the chances of transmission horse to horse is unlikely.

There is a potential for all horses to be carrying strangles, not just the ones you know about. Good bio security should be a standard.

yes there is frequent contact between the 2. It would be impossible for there not to be for some people. Whilst you would not deliberately ride up to or through a herd of ponies contact within a metre or even less is common and normal. Transmission is possible directly between horses and also from things that they both touch.
Covid doesn't really come into this. Yards are not locked down for Covid AFAIK you are allowed to deal with your horse on welfare grounds and horses are allowed to be exercised.

ETA many of these domestic horses are not in yards as such, they are on their owner's premises.

 

[honetpot]

I just trying to work out how it would work. I can understand how ponies grazing together in the same area would catch it, if there is really a huge amount of contact with feral and domestic ponies, there is a risk that there is residual virus on the ground and on objects, the only would control would be vaccination or segregating them completely. It mainly transmitted with contact from nasal discharge, not inhalation of suspended virus in the air, hence why they recommend for quarantine they suggest 10 metres as good distance to use to avoid cross contamination.
'Average survival times vary depending on the conditions – on surfaces and objects.

• In the summer it would be about two days due to the heat which dries the bacteria out and makes in non-viable.
• In the winter can be up to nine days depending on the conditions - freezing temperatures kill the bacteria quicker.
• On damp surfaces the bacteria can survive for between two and 20 days depending on the conditions.
• On dry surfaces 0 -12 days depending on the conditions.''

The infection control measures that have been put in place to control covid, are the sort of measures you control any virus or bacterial disease, avoiding unnecessary contact with the potentially infected animals and cleaning your hands. There is always going to be some animals that do not have signs of infection.

 

[paddy555]

I just trying to work out how it would work. I can understand how ponies grazing together in the same area would catch it, if there is really a huge amount of contact with feral and domestic ponies, there is a risk that there is residual virus on the ground and on objects, the only would control would be vaccination or segregating them completely. It mainly transmitted with contact from nasal discharge, not inhalation of suspended virus in the air, hence why they recommend for quarantine they suggest 10 metres as good distance to use to avoid cross contamination.
'Average survival times vary depending on the conditions – on surfaces and objects.

• In the summer it would be about two days due to the heat which dries the bacteria out and makes in non-viable.
• In the winter can be up to nine days depending on the conditions - freezing temperatures kill the bacteria quicker.
• On damp surfaces the bacteria can survive for between two and 20 days depending on the conditions.
• On dry surfaces 0 -12 days depending on the conditions.''

The infection control measures that have been put in place to control covid, are the sort of measures you control any virus or bacterial disease, avoiding unnecessary contact with the potentially infected animals and cleaning your hands. There is always going to be some animals that do not have signs of infection.

I'm sorry but we seem to be terribly at cross purposes here. There is no way to eradicate it. It is endemic in the feral population. Has been for years. What is needed is for domestic horse owners to be made aware it has flared up again in their area so that they can take whatever precautions they wish to protect their horses. Some will want to take more care, some will just carry on as normal and not be bothered.
The ferals and domestic horses don't graze together as such although some ferals do manage to get into fields when they shouldn't. Feral horses graze on the common or on the banks on the sides or the roads. On the other side of those banks/walls are domestic horses. If you know it has flared up you can fence them further away. Alternatively ferals with strangles can be on the inside of the wall and you are riding past on the outside.

Often you meet them out riding in single vehicle width roads. You have to thread your way through them to get past so they are very close to your horse. If they are blocking the road drivers (not deliberately) drive them with their vehicle and they end up running into the back of your ridden horse.


They graze over the areas that are ridden over so if they leave strangles snot on 3 foot high gorse bushes that is the exact height your horse's head comes into contact with it. Parts of the moor are now very overgrown so ridden horses and ferals share the same tracks.They come into contact with gates so residue could be left there. They come past my yard gates on their trips from one common to another and as they go down to the river. They stop sometimes, eat outside it. My horse stands with his head over that gate as I open and close it to go onto the road, if they sneeze and leave snot on that gate he will be in contact with it. .
I let my horses hand graze off my road wall bank. If I had known about strangles I wouldn't have been doing that this last week or so.


Most ignore you but some come trotting over to you. Foals especially are curious and want to play and follow you.
the ponies are usually no problem at all it is just nice to know if strangles is rife.

the ones in the tourist car parks will be a problem as the public won't realise. They may be thinking of Covid and sanitising their hands but I doubt they will realise that cuddly pony with his head in their car window dripping onto their lap has something not so nice.

 

[Silver Clouds]

As Paddy555 has said, it is all too easy to come into close quarters with the feral ponies on Dartmoor, or for your horse to touch something they have. Having an idea of where there is an outbreak means you can avoid these areas, or take extra precautions. It is such a shame that some owners still hide the fact they have infected horses due to shame/ignorance/whatever, as it makes it more likely to inadvertently spread.

 

[Wishfilly]

I just trying to work out how it would work. I can understand how ponies grazing together in the same area would catch it, if there is really a huge amount of contact with feral and domestic ponies, there is a risk that there is residual virus on the ground and on objects, the only would control would be vaccination or segregating them completely. It mainly transmitted with contact from nasal discharge, not inhalation of suspended virus in the air, hence why they recommend for quarantine they suggest 10 metres as good distance to use to avoid cross contamination.
'Average survival times vary depending on the conditions – on surfaces and objects.

• In the summer it would be about two days due to the heat which dries the bacteria out and makes in non-viable.
• In the winter can be up to nine days depending on the conditions - freezing temperatures kill the bacteria quicker.
• On damp surfaces the bacteria can survive for between two and 20 days depending on the conditions.
• On dry surfaces 0 -12 days depending on the conditions.''

The infection control measures that have been put in place to control covid, are the sort of measures you control any virus or bacterial disease, avoiding unnecessary contact with the potentially infected animals and cleaning your hands. There is always going to be some animals that do not have signs of infection.

There areas where people keep pet horses and ponies in fields on the edge of the moor- keeping feral ponies 10m away at all times would not be possible. Some people may have the option to move their horses to other grazing or to double fence their fields to minimise any contact. Feral ponies do occasionally get into people's fields- this is possible more common at this time of year when owners may be putting out hay and the moor ponies have less grass and less tourists feeding them.

I don't think tourists would necessarily sanitise their hand between touching a feral pony and say hello to another one over the fence. Or it may be on coats etc. I also think it's reasonable for tourists to be warned so they can make their own choices about interacting with the ponies (and yes, they probably shouldn't be touching and feeding them anyway, but they do, and some of the ponies are semi tame and quite happy to be scratched etc).

Moorland ponies often come to car parks in the hope they will get fed. A lot of people box up to the moors to hack, and may well have to shoo these ponies away from their boxes etc before unloading.

Yes, people should be conscious of disease transfer all the time, but like with lockdown, some people's precaution would be to avoid the area entirely and go for a hack somewhere else! I don't think it's unreasonable that people are told.

 

[honetpot]

Thats what I was trying to work out, there is little to be done, apart from modifying your behaviour and give information to the public. The New Forest Agisters that manage the New Forest, where of course there are a lot of visitors, just take very ill stock off the forest and advise Commoners to keep their equines separated where there is a known outbreak.

 

[Spotherisk]

Thanks for the heads up. We do occasionally walk the dogs near Haytor as it’s really local to us (same ward for anyone thinking about travelling and COVID!) and there are a lot of ponies there, although we avoid them. I really would not want to take strangles home to my boys.