Strangles - tell me all

MiniMilton

MiniMilton

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I know nothing about strangles. I've been lucky enough to never encounter it. A friend has just offered a home to 2 rescues recovering from strangles. (an emergency situation and threats from previous owners meant they had to be moved)
The field they have gone into is 2 fields away from any other animals. They intend to disinfect the troughs and feed buckets after a period of time (which is one of the things i'm looking for info on)
The horses still have glands up but do not have a snotty nose (so I am told, I haven't gone near enough to them to see for myself) They have finished their antibiotics (they were also suffering from pneumonia) and look quite bright in themselves considering. At what stage can they be introduced to other horses? I was suggesting 2 months just to be safe but that is just a guess. And at what stage can the extreme handler hygiene precautions be reduced? I can see that getting tiresome after a month.
And how long can the bacteria live on things like a rug? Or will the rugs need to be disinfected even though they will be remaining on the original horses? The rugs have only gone on the horses since the snotty nose symptoms have passed, they were unrugged and stabled for treatment.

Thanks
 
I think they are getting tested tomorrow. Seemingly the antibiotics can give false results. If the results are clear is there still an incubation period?

Thanks for the link, will have a look
 
Your friend should consult with her vet. But I would suggest she also discusses guttural swabs also. Because until they are clear she'll be working in the dark.

She mustn't handle any other horses without a total change of clothing and footwear. And hand wash.
 
Oh according to that link it looks like my guess of 2 months was a good one. Other articles say only 1 month isolation. I think i'll suggest 3 just to be safe!

The mention of some horses being a carrier for years is a bit scary though
 
swilliam said:
Talk to a vet - they can be tested to check they're not still carrying the virus I think.
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Its not a virus, viruses are airborne, bacterial infections are contagious, by touch
http://www.rvc.ac.uk/supervets/documents/equine/strangles.pdf

In order to test for carrier status the vet will carry out a gutteral pouch examination, and inject a long term antibiotic in to the pouches [cavities]. Main problem may be trying to do this with the ponies being small.

In theory the bacteria don't survive very long maybe three weeks after being shed is safe, but I washed absolutely everything as much as I could.
I used Jeyes Fluid where I could and once any equipment was visually clean it was washed again in a solution of bleach.
 
"Its not a virus, viruses are airborne, bacterial infections are contagious, by touch" EEEK this is so untrue !Have you never heard of airbourne anthrax!.A cough from a strangles horse projects an aerosol of liquid containing the bacterium . It all depends on your defenition of airbourne. On the plus side however ,all strangles is really if "strep throat "in horses. There are numerous strains ,but fortunately most horses have a degree of immunity in the UK . I was In a yard with strangles a while ago, the horse stabled next to mine was diagnosed with it (only by scopeing its throat,I was there at the time,and saw the pictures)No horse in the yard developed full blown strangles. Without the scope ,we wouldnt have even suspected. My own horse had a single "bad day" off his food (and for an Irish draught that meens a very bad day!)bounced back and life continued as normal.We carried out all sorts of disinfection and quaranteen ,but I suspect that the only positive effect of this was to reassure the neighbours.A few horses were a bit poorly but without modern diagnostics you would never have guessed that it really was strangles. There is far more strangles about than you would ever believe.
 
Please please talk to a vet about this. Strangles is a complex issue and it can cause a lot of dramas and bad feeling on yards if it's not properly managed. Ask the vet about the bio security measures you need in place and for how long. As for the rugs, I'd probably burn them having seen what strangles can do to horses!
 
Yes research is fine ,but it costs a lot of money and it is not uncommon forthose involved to rather exagerate the importance of their work.
 
We had a horse on our yard recently with it. You need 3 clear swabs in a row to be clear, I can't quite remember but I think it was one a week. Hope that helps a little.
 
For many horses they get a slight cold and that's it. For others it can kill. Your best defence is learn how to take a horses temperature. Take it on regular basis. First signs that they are a bit off colour take the temperature. The earlier they get medication the better.
 
A yard near us has just got the all clear after struggling for the last 8 months! They had vets in very early too. It's a disease which is very difficult to get rid of. It can harbour in the guttural pouches and that is where the antibiotic washes have to be put to. I think they can blood test to see if the ponies are clear.

As above regarding cross infection, complete change of clothes and shower, separate boots and bin bags over your car seats, alcohol gel for everywhere and avoid touching other horses.

Hope they get the clear and it goes well.
 
Mike007 said:
"Its not a virus, viruses are airborne, bacterial infections are contagious, by touch" EEEK this is so untrue !Have you never heard of airbourne anthrax!.A cough from a strangles horse projects an aerosol of liquid containing the bacterium . It all depends on your defenition of airbourne. On the plus side however ,all strangles is really if "strep throat "in horses. There are numerous strains ,but fortunately most horses have a degree of immunity in the UK . I was In a yard with strangles a while ago, the horse stabled next to mine was diagnosed with it (only by scopeing its throat,I was there at the time,and saw the pictures)No horse in the yard developed full blown strangles. Without the scope ,we wouldnt have even suspected. My own horse had a single "bad day" off his food (and for an Irish draught that meens a very bad day!)bounced back and life continued as normal.We carried out all sorts of disinfection and quaranteen ,but I suspect that the only positive effect of this was to reassure the neighbours.A few horses were a bit poorly but without modern diagnostics you would never have guessed that it really was strangles. There is far more strangles about than you would ever believe.
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Yes Mike, I was trying to keep thing simple, Bacillus Anthraxis is a spore forming bacteria, produced from a dead carcass and the spores are able to survive for many years, airborne anthrax is/was a hazard of the leather tanning industry due to the spores coming from the hides. Mycobacterium Tuberculosis is also spore forming but often transmission is by sputum.
I was in a large outbreak of strangles two or three years ago, all the horses had temperatures taken twice per day, this was the only practical way to determine if the equid had contracted the infection and was therefore infectious. Some refused to submit to the practice.
Taking throat swabs as a diagnostic is not safe. Taking bloods will show the infection, of 50 horse and ponies, 28 showed exposure to the bacteria, not surprising since the yard [BHS approved] allowed horses who had been unwell to mix with the rest. And yes, there were a number of ponies who had already had exposure and some immunity.
The main problem taking on ponies which have the disease symptoms is that they have to be monitored and 30 days after symptoms have subsided, the endoscope is put up the nostril and in to the gutteral pouch [difficult/impossible with small ponies] the vet looks for abnormalities and also injects the long term antibiotic, if there are abnormalities [indicating a carrier] the procedure is repeated in another 30 days.
 
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RaynerK said:
Please please talk to a vet about this. Strangles is a complex issue and it can cause a lot of dramas and bad feeling on yards if it's not properly managed. Ask the vet about the bio security measures you need in place and for how long. As for the rugs, I'd probably burn them having seen what strangles can do to horses!
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You don't need to burn rugs, the strangles is relatively short lived bacterium [outside the horse], however the isolation period is not a matter for guessing, the vet will advice along scientific guidelines.
While there is danger of infection the security measures must be extreme to prevent cross contamination to another equid.
If you are in contact with other horses you need to change clothes, disinfect boots wear Marigolds and carry antibacterial disposable cloths in your car to disinfect the interior.
 
Kaylum said:
For many horses they get a slight cold and that's it. For others it can kill. Your best defence is learn how to take a horses temperature. Take it on regular basis. First signs that they are a bit off colour take the temperature. The earlier they get medication the better.
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Medication, by which I assume you mean antibiotics is contra indicated because it tends to prolong the course of the infection, in this case antibiotics were used because of a secondary cause, pneumonia.
The vet in charge is the only person who can determine the procedures, the ponies still have swollen glands which indicates they still have active infection, presumably from the strangles bacteria, though we know that other infections can cause swollen glands.
 
annabel2009 said:
We had a horse on our yard recently with it. You need 3 clear swabs in a row to be clear, I can't quite remember but I think it was one a week. Hope that helps a little.
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The swab test is used to determine if infection is present, but it would seem that the disease has already been diagnosed.
In my opinion the blood test is definitive.
Negative swab tests give an owner "false hope" .. in my experience the YM and the owner went around telling everyone, and I quote "the horse has a non infectious upper respiratory infection" Yes thanks............. why don't we turn all three horses [next door to each other and all sick] out in to the fields to mix with all the others..... after all we don't have any positive tests, only three sick horses standing next door to each other, it just a co-incidence, yes one of them has just come through a dealers yard which has strangles.......another co-incidence!
 
Mike007 said:
Yes research is fine ,but it costs a lot of money and it is not uncommon forthose involved to rather exagerate the importance of their work.
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Mike you are so right: I always tie a sweaty sock round my neck and take to my bed when I have a life threatening flu, so much easier than those pesky jabs provided by the NHS for those at risk [even more research just to determine that!]
And as for smallpox, good grief, it seems they want to eradicate it altogether, what is the world coming to!
 
Strangles is a horrible thing,
We brought 7 rescues (shouldn't of got them or brought them but couldn't leave them) 6 had strangles, 4 were put down immediately. We isolated the other 3 and one person did them daily, own tools, overalls etc plus virkon galore, sadly we had 16 other horses an all though they b were never in contact with the strangles horses they had daiky temp checks, several blood tests plus gutral pouch swobs x 3. When the horses were finally clear we chucked all there rugs and equipment plus there electric fencing away, our vet said that the bacteria could survive in fences for up to a year.
We then had to PTS the horses anyway. One was dangerous, one was a rig with severe kissing spine and one was never ever putting on weight. We lost thousands. But let's the horses had ther last few months munching and being spoilt!

It also gave the yard a bad name as all though nothing out of isolation shower any signs, we put up signs on the gate as a bride path is near by and got slagged off a lot!
 
Thank you so much for all the detailed replies. I guess its only fair that i'm honest with you confess that when I said "my friend" I meant "me". I was just to ashamed to admit my foolishness in knowingly taking on strangles infected horses. The horses had to leave their original rescuer as the original owner that dumped them at the side of the road, who obviously assumed they were going to die, suddenly wanted them back when he realised they had survived. He became aggressive and threatening so a horse rescue centre on the other side of the country took them on financially. However due to the set up of their centre they couldn't take them in as they didn't have available quarantine facilities. So a very hasty and poorly thought out decision by me resulted in these poor mares arriving at my doorstep. I have a nice field unused for 10-11 months of the year so I thought whats the harm. (and then I started reading up... gulp)

The rescue centre are providing the ongoing veterinary treatment and cost of food, but it is my job to ensure they are fed, watered etc.
As mentioned before I have them in an isolated field with no animals in the neighbouring field. I have put a sign up on the gate that leads out onto the road warning of infectious disease incase people hacking past (a rare occurrence) stop for a sniff. I haven't touched the horses and don't intend to until they are given the all clear. The rescue centre will accompany the vet visits and do the necessary handling. As all my horses are living out at the moment (i'm pregnant), I just hay, feed, water them first, then see to the sick ones. I have been keeping their hay and feed in a separate location. The only instance where contamination could occur is when I have to handle the buckets and haynets. I wash me thoroughly and wash all my clothes on a hot wash afterwards. When they arrived I wouldnt even allow the horsebox to be driven into my yard, they were unloaded on the road and put into the field from there.

They have already had a blood test and it came back clear, but one of the mares still has swollen glands so the vet thinks the antibiotics gave a false negative. They are due another blood test today and they are not on antibiotics anymore so hopefully it will give a true picture of whats going on. I had a good look at them this morning (from a safe distance!) and their noses are completely clear, and there is no residual pus on their coats.

I've been trying to digest all the info and I still have questions...If they get 3 negative bloodtests can they still be harbouring the bacteria in the gutteral pouch? Are the endoscopes still necessary? (apologies i'm afraid to click back to re read incase I lose everything i've typed!)
I don't want to take their temp as firstly it requires handling the horses and risk contamination, secondly as i'm pregnant and the only one checking them in the field, and the horses are a bit shy it would be too tricky. So they will only have temp taken then vet is in attendance. Is this ok?

I'm sure i'll have more questions and for that I do apologize. I'm just looking forward to the time they are well enough to get a cuddle and a groom as they are looking frightfully unloved. And one of the poor little mares is in foal, so my maternal instinct wants to mind her. However I don't want to be regretting my good deed and infect my own horses. Oh lord what have I done:(
 
MrsD123 said:
DO NOT USE HAYNETS WITH THE INFECTED HORSES they are highly likely to be plastered with bacteria, it matters little if some hay is wasted, DO NOT USE HAYNETS
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Ok I'll ditch them. Thanks. They haven't actually gone near the haynets yet as there is still lots of grass but I'll bin them anyway. Can dirty haynets reinfect the same horses or is the concern with contaminating my clothes?
 
who legally owns the horses?

very irresponsible rescue moving sick/infectious horses around the country

also very irresponsible to put sick horses where there is no-one to have hands on them on a daily basis, if they are wearing rugs and you don't touch them daily how do you know if they are hot/cold/rubbing/have rain scald or are gaining/dropping weight fast?

a rescue with no quarantine facilities?
 
The blood tests are probably monitoring the progress of the herd, it can, I believe, tell whether the infection is new or whether in the past, regardless, any positives may have to be gutteral pouched [and there may be small endoscopes available , I don't know].
But even if the endoscope camera cannot get inside the GP for a full examination, the vet should be able to squirt the antibiotic in to the pouches.
It is so complex, you have to wait for the vet to advise. For individuals the isolation is 30 days after symptoms, then the GP, but with a herd presumably it will be after 30 days of any symptom. The vet will bring her own assistant, so you should not touch the animals.
It is no use taking temperatures, that is to identify horses incubating the disease which are then isolated individually, but this is not the case here, all the animals are thrown in together and treated as a herd.
 
Where there is concentrated strangles pathogen (in pus) there is a characteristic and unpleasant smell.

An open sore out of which pus can drain is a good thing, apparently, as it lessens the chance of "barsteward strangles" developing - where other lymph nodes other than in the head and neck become infected and the prognosis is rather worse.
 
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