Strangles vaccine - should we be embracing it more??

[Floofball]

So, just searched on the subject here and there aren’t many posts/responses so thought I’d ask if people are having it or considering having it done routinely now? There are a couple of cases locally and vets are pushing/promoting getting vaccinated. I’m aware it was Strangles Awareness week last week but it looks like my yard might be implementing a ‘strangles plan’ this week. My research suggests it’s a no brainer if your taking horses out and about or if your on a yard with lots of visiting horses/people (probably just answered my own question there) BUT my horse reacts badly to all vaccinations so I’m wary of giving another, especially as there are well documented side effects. I’ve heard take up is poor, vets having to buy in bulk so teaming with other practices to use etc. Considering the effect positive cases have on yards and the knock on effects on surrounding areas/events etc - should we be getting more on board with it?
I am coming from a slightly cynical view of large pharma but recognise the advantages of established precautionary jabs (even though my horse suffers each time )
Would appreciate others thoughts on the subject please

 

[EventingMum]

The vets most of my liveries use are pushing it now. I asked about it last year and was told there wasn't sufficient field data at that point but one of the research vets has looked into it recently and concluded it is worth doing. The schedule they are using is off licence; two vaccines a month apart then one at 3 or 6 months and then six monthly or annually depending on how often the horse goes out and about. The manufacturer's schedule is more frequent vaccinations. About a third of my liveries have started with it and I am encouraging the others to seriously consider it. I'm not sure if it is just our vets or if it's the vaccine manufacturer but if they book the second vaccination appointment this month even if it's not given till next month the vaccine itself is free. From what I've heard the risk of a reaction is no higher than with the 'flu vaccine and none of the horses here had any adverse reaction.

 

[Birker2020]

Nope never.

Our vet used a strangles vaccine on a good third of the horses on the yard going back around ten years ago now. Mine didn't have the vaccination as he was on antibiotics at the time, thank God. A lot of the horses reacted quite badly to the vaccine, and within a few hours.

I walked down the yard aisles and despite me being at work when the horses were vaccinated I could tell immediately by looking through the stable bars which horses had been vaccinated and what horses hadn't just by their demeanour. Their symptoms ranged from dull, listless, not eating, very quiet and one had colic which was remedied easily enough, another horse, a mare ended up with an enlarged heart which came about in the days following the vaccine. The vet contacted the drug manufacturer and the girl whose horse had to have ECG's and goodness knows what else had her vets bills paid by the drug company.

The vet said he'd never administer another strangles vaccine again. I certainly wouldn't use the vaccine if I was offered it for my horse. I forget what company it was now, it was one of the big pharamceutical companies. It was all the same batch.

 

[Gloi]

Nope never.

Our vet used a strangles vaccine on a good third of the horses on the yard going back around ten years ago now. Mine didn't have the vaccination as he was on antibiotics at the time, thank God. A lot of the horses reacted quite badly to the vaccine, and within a few hours.

I walked down the yard aisles and despite me being at work when the horses were vaccinated I could tell immediately by looking through the stable bars which horses had been vaccinated and what horses hadn't just by their demeanour. Their symptoms ranged from dull, listless, not eating, very quiet and one had colic which was remedied easily enough, another horse, a mare ended up with an enlarged heart which came about in the days following the vaccine. The vet contacted the drug manufacturer and the girl whose horse had to have ECG's and goodness knows what else had her vets bills paid by the drug company.

The vet said he'd never administer another strangles vaccine again. I certainly wouldn't use the vaccine if I was offered it for my horse. I forget what company it was now, it was one of the big pharamceutical companies. It was all the same batch.

Is the vaccine that was used 10 years ago the same as is used now do you know .

 

[Birker2020]

Is the vaccine that was used 10 years ago the same as is used now do you know .

I have no idea tbh. I get your point but
sometimes a bad experience makes you wary in the future.

It may have just been a faulty batch of course. But personally I wouldn't risk it.

A previous horse was injected with a drug that wasn't licensed for use on horses and I had to sign a disclaimer. He dropped down dead about 18 months later. I'd never use that drug again either although I have since heard it is now licensed for use for horses.

 

[McFluff]

I’m considering it. Just had mine scoped for a yard move, so now a good time. Going to chat to vet about it this week. Now on a busy yard, with lots of horses out and about, and my horse is getting older, so feel it could be worth protecting him a bit.
Apparently it is well used in Sweden (but I’ve not fact checked that, just heard from a vet).

 

[Floofball]

@Birker2020 definitely worth checking out if the vaccine has changed over the years - off to Google I go

 

[Birker2020]

@Birker2020 definitely worth checking out if the vaccine has changed over the years - off to Google I go

purpura hemorrhagica is one of the side effects, it can damage the heart muscle, this was what the livery I mentioned horse had I assume.

I think the old vacinne was withdrawn in 2007.

 

[Floofball]

The vets most of my liveries use are pushing it now. I asked about it last year and was told there wasn't sufficient field data at that point but one of the research vets has looked into it recently and concluded it is worth doing. The schedule they are using is off licence; two vaccines a month apart then one at 3 or 6 months and then six monthly or annually depending on how often the horse goes out and about. The manufacturer's schedule is more frequent vaccinations. About a third of my liveries have started with it and I am encouraging the others to seriously consider it. I'm not sure if it is just our vets or if it's the vaccine manufacturer but if they book the second vaccination appointment this month even if it's not given till next month the vaccine itself is free. From what I've heard the risk of a reaction is no higher than with the 'flu vaccine and none of the horses here had any adverse reaction.

My vets are doing an ‘amnesty’ where the 2nd jab is free but there will still be visit charges I presume. As I say I’m on the cynical side but if it means you can attend events/move yards etc because you’re vaccinated?? I suppose in the end it will be up to organisations/yo’s etc to demand it before it becomes mainstream. Unfortunately my horse does react quite badly so my gut feeling atm is not to give unless it’s insisted on - but then I feel I’m not helping the cause/bigger picture. Will have to see what the yard decides tomorrow

 

[Barton Bounty]

I would only give it if I had plans of being off the yard with Orbi around lots of other horses which the only plans I have are to go to cross country hire myself then just with one other horse probably or to the gallops with the same horse.
So in my case no, because we know those horses on our yard and know where they have been
Im like you, panic about vaccines but Orbi just had his flu and was absolutely fine

 

[Floofball]

The yard I’m on has LOTS of comings and goings and very little quarantine measures (think that’s what the ‘plan’ may be about tomorrow) also have an imminent yard move coming up - I’m thinking it will be the responsible thing to do, just wish he didn’t react to jabs - last one (in his bum as neck rendered him unable to reach down to eat, and chest made him sore enough to be noticeably lame - bute needed) left a melon sized hot lump that slowly travelled down his thigh - dissipating before it got to his hock hate them

 

[Barton Bounty]

The yard I’m on has LOTS of comings and goings and very little quarantine measures (think that’s what the ‘plan’ may be about tomorrow) also have an imminent yard move coming up - I’m thinking it will be the responsible thing to do, just wish he didn’t react to jabs - last one (in his bum as neck rendered him unable to reach down to eat, and chest made him sore enough to be noticeably lame - bute needed) left a melon sized hot lump that slowly travelled down his thigh - dissipating before it got to his hock hate them

Poor boy

 

[Birker2020]

The yard I’m on has LOTS of comings and goings and very little quarantine measures (think that’s what the ‘plan’ may be about tomorrow) also have an imminent yard move coming up - I’m thinking it will be the responsible thing to do, just wish he didn’t react to jabs - last one (in his bum as neck rendered him unable to reach down to eat, and chest made him sore enough to be noticeably lame - bute needed) left a melon sized hot lump that slowly travelled down his thigh - dissipating before it got to his hock hate them

You have to risk assess. If it's worth the possible side effects and the cost of reinjection every 2-3 months.

Hopefully if you do go ahead he doesn't get a reaction like he's done before. It's hard deciding what to do for the best, I looked at EHV prevention at one point for a previous horse who'd been misdiagnosed with it but didn't go ahead in the end. They reckoned that was another virus that was easy to catch from others.

Good luck whatever you decide.

 

[TheMule]

You have to risk assess. If it's worth the possible side effects and the cost of reinjection every 2-3 months.

Hopefully if you do go ahead he doesn't get a reaction like he's done before. It's hard deciding what to do for the best, I looked at EHV prevention at one point for a previous horse who'd been misdiagnosed with it but didn't go ahead in the end. They reckoned that was another virus that was easy to catch from others.

Good luck whatever you decide.

Strangles isn’t caused by a virus. EHV IS a virus that is very easy to catch from others but it's not that widespread the advice in the UK is generally to only vaccinate pregnant mares (part of the basic good management of the mare) as it can cause late-term abortion.

The vaccine you earn against above is not what is used now. Strangvac uses a different way of generating immunity and has few side effects, most of which are mild and would be considered normal responses to vaccines.

I have no interest in using it on my own horses as they live at home with no comings/goings and I don’t stay away at any events. If I were at a yard with poor biosecurity then I would consider it.

 

[Kaylum]

Friend's pony got a strain of flu after being at a big show overnight. She phoned them up to tell them and they said they do not disinfect the boxes after use. She then saw a post about other horses being unwell at an event after hers at the same place. That's basic bio security that these places aren't doing. It was shocking really.

 

[Birker2020]

Strangles isn’t caused by a virus. EHV IS a virus that is very easy to catch from others but it's not that widespread the advice in the UK is generally to only vaccinate pregnant mares (part of the basic good management of the mare) as it can cause late-term abortion.

The vaccine you earn against above is not what is used now. Strangvac uses a different way of generating immunity and has few side effects, most of which are mild and would be considered normal responses to vaccines.

I have no interest in using it on my own horses as they live at home with no comings/goings and I don’t stay away at any events. If I were at a yard with poor biosecurity then I would consider it.

My vet suggested the EHV vacinne because we were out competing a lot. They originally thought it was EHV as he was neuro but it was wobblers instead.

Yes you are right strangles is not a virus but it's often referred as being one and I couldn't think of an alternative word at 2.30am this morning. Disease or illness didn't seem right either.

 

[mavandkaz]

My friend works for the company that sells the strangles vaccine (she's in small animal sales but obviously keeps a close eye on the horse side).
She was talking about it last week, and mentioned that the results are looking really good and that it looks as though immunity is lasting longer then originally thought, so may not need to give as often as first thought. So could potentially go to yearly, along with other jabs.
Although obviously no long term studies as only been around a few years.
I haven't heard any vets pushing it around here, and not sure if I would bother. My yard isn't too busy, and even when I was taking horses out and about it was generally locally and just for the day.
My vets do push for the EHV vaccine, but then they spend a lot of time working with racehorse so it's normal for them to include it.

 

[Red-1]

My vet suggested the EHV vacinne because we were out competing a lot. They originally thought it was EHV as he was neuro but it was wobblers instead.

Yes you are right strangles is not a virus but it's often referred as being one and I couldn't think of an alternative word at 2.30am this morning. Disease or illness didn't seem right either.

Bacterial.

I would consider it as, although mine are kept at home with no coming or going, I am now holidaying a lot and my boys go to a commercial yard. They have individual turnout but it is not exactly isolated. The yard is observant and careful but there would be possibility for infection.

I am usually very careful out and about not to brush noses etc or share buckets but, just this weekend, we were at Somerford camp. If one horse had arrived infected, a lot would have taken it home, IMO. Mine could touch noses at the edge of the stable. Also, we shared a bale of haylage so everyone would take the used net and lay it on the haylage to refill. Plus, the corridors were narrow and, with the best will in the world, horses were having a crafty boop to each other as a greeting as they were led through.

 

[nutjob]

My vet hasn't mentioned it to me at all but most of the staff at the practice know me and are aware that my horses are kept at home. I don't stay away at shows and think the chances of catching it in a warm up are pretty slim. The frequency would put me off atm, even if one of the jabs was free, the call out still has to be paid for or the horses loaded and taken to the clinic, a 45min journey each way and the vet will still (rightfully) charge for sticking it in the horse and filling out the paperwork.

 

[ycbm]

I would first want to see the statistics on how dangerous strangles actually is to any horses with a sound immune system. And those on vaccine reactions too.

It's potentially very dangerous to the very young and the old and the immune compromised. But I've seen some big yards get strangles and not implement quarantine measures at the yard, so they were all exposed, and the worst affected got a very minor cold.

Apocryphally, wise old horsemen used to get a rag that had been wiped on someone else's horse with strangles and deliberately expose all their young, but not too young, horses. Of course vaccination would be preferable, but I wouldn't want to be vaccinating twice a year to prevent a minor cold.

As an aside, I've known one of the biggest yard in the country, Somerford, for 30 years. There are no quarantine procedures there for new arrivals. There has never been a case of strangles that I know of there, and word would have got around like wildfire. Should up to 250 horses have been vaccinated twice a year for the last 30 years, on that basis?
.

 

[Gloi]

It went round the riding school ponies when I was a teenager. Nearly all of them got it and were ill to some degree. About a third got the nasty burst abscesses under the jowl. One was off work for quite a while but they all survived. They were all healthy adults.

 

[ycbm]

Since strangles is a bacteria not a virus wouldn't it make more sense to treat every horse in contact with a known strangles case with antibiotics, rather than vaccinate every horse twice a year?
.

 

[Widgeon]

My horse has been having it for three or four years now, since it became available here. My reasoning is that if he does get strangles, having had the vaccine should mean he gets milder symptoms (this is consistent with the available study data). It should also serve to an extent to protect the older, unvaccinated horses on the yard, because it makes my horse less likely to carry it in (he's the only one who really goes out to parties).

I know for sure that my horse does react quite badly to it - he becomes very stiff and sore and is convinced he is dying and cannot move - but now I know that, I give him two Bute just after the vaccine, and that appears to remove all the adverse reactions. He had it last week, along with two Bute, and was absolutely fine and perky.

My use of it is way off label - annually rather than the recommended six or three months - but my vet (who I absolutely trust) feels that's probably still better than nothing. They're pragmatists and know I don't have unlimited cash!

I suppose I view strangles a bit like chickenpox in children - we've accepted it for years as normal but while not hugely dangerous for most, it's a misery. If I can do something to reduce my horse's risk then I will.

 

[TheMule]

Since strangles is a bacteria not a virus wouldn't it make more sense to treat every horse in contact with a known strangles case with antibiotics, rather than vaccinate every horse twice a year?
.

It’s only recommended to give antibiotics to more severe cases of strangles because their use reduces the immune response (so the horse can become reinfected) and can prolong the course of the disease by preventing the abscesses from progressing and bursting (a bit like why you don’t normally use them for a foot abscess).

 

[rabatsa]

I am of an age where you expected horses to get stangles. Irish youngsters brought it into the dealers. It was a standard question when buying to ask if the horse was known to have had strangles.

This was in the days when horses were classed as aged at age 7 and any reaching teenage years were old, very old.

 

[Birker2020]

I had a horse on a yard about 30 yrs ago where they all had strangles, he had it twice during the outbreak as evidenced by a cough and raised temperature (we were taking the temp twice daily) during this period.

His was very mild luckily.

 

[scats]

I nearly lost a horse to strangles in 2007. He was a healthy 9 year old horse at the time.
When you’ve seen a horse that unwell with it, it does make you very wary of any of your horses getting it again.

 

[Slightlyconfused]

Is it still given under the upper lip?

To be honest I would just prefer to blood test, a vaccine that has to be given ebery 3 to 6 months in my mind isnt a very good one.

But thata just me

 

[Floofball]

I nearly lost a horse to strangles in 2007. He was a healthy 9 year old horse at the time.
When you’ve seen a horse that unwell with it, it does make you very wary of any of your horses getting it again.

So sorry your horse had such a bad time with it. I don’t personally know of any horses that have become really poorly with it apart from one that had bastard strangles as a youngster who went on to live to a grand old age. Would you consider vaccinating or do you already?

 

[Floofball]

Think I’m going to give it a pass for now with my younger horse that’s on this yard. They’re looking into improving bio security measures which can only be a good thing. If my older boy was still there I’d probably get him done as he’s prone to being very poorly at the best of times - always been a sick note! He’s at home now retired with a companion so no interactions with others and for some reason I’ve started to wash my hands A LOT again!