Strangles!!!

[Snipe]

Quick question: If a horse has had strangles and just recovered, could it be in any danger from being turned out with a strangles carrier?

Thanks

 

[Snipe]

 

[Miss L Toe]

Yes!!!
After horse has recovered, 30 days from last symptoms, symptoms it should be endoscoped into the Gutteral pouches looking for abnormalities and chondroids , then washed out, and then a long term antibiotic gel is inserted to ensure all bacteria are killed off. The wash is tested and also has to be clear of bacteria.
This is to prevent the horse becoming a carrier, I do not know if it is 100%, but in my case it worked.
The "strangles carrier" [how do you know it is a strangles carrier?] should be identified and treated as above.
A horse may get some immunity, having had the disease, but no one knows for how long and so it is academic.
In my limited experience [and I am not a vet] it seems to me that horses which had had no exposure to the disease AND got a good dose of the bugs got the disease worst. I would expect them to have the best immunity in the short term.

 

[Snipe]

Thanks for your reply.

I first noticed symptoms about 3 weeks ago (temperature & off his food). Called the vet and treated with anti bi's/bute straight away. Only later did it emerge that it was strangles. He started discharging snot a couple of weeks ago, but not loads - just a few blobs in his water bucket. He hasn't shed any for about a week now though. Never had any abcesses rupture externally or anything like that.

He's booked in for a scope the week after next, but until then he's out in a field with a carrier (revealed by scoping). Just wanted to make sure it wouldn't prolong his recovery being continually exposed to the bacteria.

 

[foxy1]

Just make sure once he has had the wash, your horse is not in contact with the carrier

 

[Miss L Toe]

mmmmm, is this the UK?.........., the Animal Health Trust have a strategy for strangles, and the GP is to get rid of carriers, if the equine is discharging it can do so for up to twenty years [anecdotally] therefore it needs to be treated until it stops discharging.
PS most vets do NOT use antibiotics unless the disease is overwhelming the animal, as it does not do much good, but prolongs the length of the disease.
It is an expensive exercise to GP the horse, and if the other horse is not treated and cleared then I would move and make sure you do not come in to repeated contact.
You have to be sure the other owner is not pulling the wool over your eyes , expressions like, "tested clear" cut no ice, you need to know the exact procedure and the exact result and the vet report, the other person should be willing to let you talk to their vet, if not , remove your horse.
The symptoms can be so mild, your horse could get it again and then become a carrier!!!.. this is the worse scenario but it is possible.
They are now both in a high risk group in 30 day isolation, but nearing the end of the thirty day [since symptoms], when I presume the other horse got antibiotic gel in to the gutteral pouch.
When both have had 30 days they should both be GP'd on the same day and treated as a group, ie both to be clear, or both to be kept in isolation from others, until another 30 days and another GP, and so on.
It is more likely that both will be clear at the next test, and can be treated as normal horses.
I hope this is clear, there are vets on here who may like to clarify, but I had plenty of time to research when mine was ill, and also had to ask my vet what was happening [expressions like blood out of a stone come to mind]

 

[Snipe]

Thanks, MrsD.

Yes, this is the UK. The carrier has only recently been identified, and is going to be dealt with. But until it is, it's out with my horse. I just want to make sure that whilst they are out together my horse is not going to be reinfected. I feel a bit guilty about bugging my vet on a weekend . I'll be speaking to the other horse's owner today though, to find out how long the other horse is likely to be out with mine.

p.s - The ABs were prescribed before strangles was suspected, so I don't blame my vet for that.

 

[Miss L Toe]

Thanks for your reply.

He hasn't shed any for about a week now though.

He's booked in for a scope the week after next, but until then he's out in a field with a carrier (revealed by scoping). Just wanted to make sure it wouldn't prolong his recovery being continually exposed to the bacteria.

Yes 30 days from his last symptoms, he has been put in a group with another animal at the same stage.

 

[Snipe]

Yes 30 days from his last symptoms, he has been put in a group with another animal at the same stage.

Ok, a bit confused now . it hasn't been 30 days since his last symptoms yet? It's been about a week - just over 3 weeks since I first noticed he had a temperature. I got to the yard just now to find the carrier had been put out with mine. The carrier is obviously the one my horse caught this off in the first place, but I'm wondering if any damage can be done by having them in together whilst mine is trying to recover.

 

[Miss L Toe]

Thanks, MrsD.

Yes, this is the UK. The carrier has only recently been identified, and is going to be dealt with. But until it is, it's out with my horse. I just want to make sure that whilst they are out together my horse is not going to be reinfected. I feel a bit guilty about bugging my vet on a weekend . I'll be speaking to the other horse's owner today though, to find out how long the other horse is likely to be out with mine.

p.s - The ABs were prescribed before strangles was suspected, so I don't blame my vet for that.

Yes I understand now, however you may be confusing a blood test, which is used to identify if horses have had the disease [not sure about timescales], horses may have been exposed [and had a mild or not so mild dose of the disease] but not be a carrier
My horse was never blood tested as the disease was identified by symptoms, the GP is to my mind the only certain test, of a carrier, that is to say a horse which is discharging Streptococcus Equi on an regular or an intermittent basis.
The Pouches may look problematic and there may be chronoids [hard pus] which need to be flushed out, the only problem is that in smaller horses particularly it may not be possible to get the endoscope camera inside for the physical examination., but is will be possible to wash out and to insert antibiotic gel.
Generally, in a yard situation the vet has to asses risk and benefits and practicalities, he or she should be advising all the horses, and take in to consideration the difficulties in moving horses around.
In answer to your original question, I think it is likely that your horse will be immune for some [unknown ] time, so would not worry too much about getting re-infected. You should ask your vet what is going to happen to the other horse, as you do to want to be in isolation indefinitely!
If you think the other horse gave yours the disease, it is not necessarily because it is a carrier [in the vet lingo], it is more likely because he had the disease [symptoms can be minimal], and at the acute stage passed it on to yours, assuming they were together.

 

[Snipe]

Ah, that all makes sense, thanks for your help MrsD

The carrier has been blood tested and scoped, and the vet is convinced it is a carrier (it's had strangles in the past, but the owners thought it was clear now).

In a couple of weeks mine will be scoped/GPed and then will have no further contact with the carrier. So long as being turned out with a carrier won't negatively affect my horse at all, I'm happy. Or at least, less unhappy!

Hope I don't start finding snot in the water buckets again, though... that really turns my stomach

 

[Miss L Toe]

Ah, that all makes sense, thanks for your help MrsD

The carrier has been blood tested and scoped, and the vet is convinced it is a carrier (it's had strangles in the past, but the owners thought it was clear now).

In a couple of weeks mine will be scoped/GPed and then will have no further contact with the carrier. So long as being turned out with a carrier won't negatively affect my horse at all, I'm happy. Or at least, less unhappy!

Hope I don't start finding snot in the water buckets again, though... that really turns my stomach

Better out than in!

 

[Miss L Toe]

Ok, a bit confused now . it hasn't been 30 days since his last symptoms yet? It's been about a week - just over 3 weeks since I first noticed he had a temperature. I got to the yard just now to find the carrier had been put out with mine. The carrier is obviously the one my horse caught this off in the first place, but I'm wondering if any damage can be done by having them in together whilst mine is trying to recover.

It will be 30 days when your GP test is done.
The horses should not be moving about day to day, they should be in a group and kept in the group until they are cleared, either stabled or in a field where they have no other contacts.
The carrier should have previously had a GP with a wash to remove stuff in the pouches, and a long term antibiotic put in place, when your horse is on 30 days, and the other one is on 30 days they should both be GPd, the other horse should now be clear [having been treated 30 days previously] and his test should be clear, hopefully your horse will also be clear, so both can go out in to the wide world.
The GP flush, test and antibiotic is to test for current live bacteria and to kill off any new bacteria, so the horse will NOT be a carrier any more.
I am not sure what they will do if your horse is clear and the other is not, but you can ask the vet who is in charge of the outbreak. You are paying the vet and are entitled to information and advice.
They can't keep you with the other indefinitely, and I assume you would move out of that field and leave the other one.