Stress laminitis from shoeing?

[Michen]

Has anyone experienced this? Cutting a long story short horse had a new farrier (mine has moved) and he cut the toes back too far. Horse has weak soles already though decent frogs. The day after shoeing he was pottery (well actually he was pottery immediately after shoeing) and I had the shoes taken off 24 hours after shoeing with the idea of booting him and giving his feet a chance to recover. Within ten minutes of the shoes being off he had pounding pulses, raises heart beat and quite literally could barely walk. Absolutely crippled even with hoof boots on. This horse had a shoe off for the last week for a suspected abscess/bruise and he was in no way crippled with that one shoe off and with a boot.

Had emergency vet out who essentially said he had "stress laminitis" from the trauma of the shoeing and how drastically his feet were cut back. He wasn't reacting much to testers around the laminae area though which is hopeful. So I have a horse in my stable on a deep full bed on multiple pain killers and who looks exactly like Torres did when his shoes were removed. Nearly a year later.

Many, many tears have been shed and I feel so bloody responsible that this has happened, plus he's on full loan and it's happened in my care beyond gutted.

 

[ester]

No , you are not responsible you put your trust in a qualified professional who failed in their first mandate to 'do no harm'.
You caught it really early, so hopefully you will just have inflammation and no rotation.
Is he booted in stable or just on deep bed atm?

 

[Bernster]

Not had experience but wanted to say how sorry I was to read this. As ester says, you used a qualified farrier, he's the one who should be feeling rotten, frankly! Awful. Hope all well soon x

 

[Michen]

He's actually more comfortable without boots so he's just in a really deep bed. I actually drove two hours to the friends house I was meant to be at 11pm last night as vet told me to take a step back and to be honest- there's nothing I can do other than look at him and sob and leave him in the very good hands of a friend till Sunday. Apparently he's sore but very perky this morning.

It's just horrid, totally horrid and he was doing so well and feeling incredible and then this happens

 

[peaceandquiet1]

Have you contacted the farrier concerned? You should let him know and ask him to come back.

 

[Michen]

Yes of course I have but the farrier is the least of my concerns at the moment- I will sort that when I am less concerned about my horse. He's under supervision of a different farrier and vet currently.

 

[FfionWinnie]

Have you contacted the farrier concerned? You should let him know and ask him to come back.

The last thing I would be doing is getting him back!

 

[southerncomfort]

I'm so sorry to read this. I can well understand how upset you are. He'll be ok though. I have had this happen once before and actually he was fine after a couple of weeks of box rest. I just needed to manage him quite carefully afterwards and I had the vet come out and supervise his next couple of trims.

Hope you can relax and enjoy your weekend.

 

[peaceandquiet1]

You didn't say you had contacted him. He ought to be attending with the vet so he can discuss with your vet the shoeing and what has happened. I appreciate you are really upset-who wouldn't be-but he ought to be involved, especially as he is being blamed for the laminitis.

 

[Michen]

Sorry but I don't need to put every single detail in my post if I did it would be five times the size! He knows what's happened- that's all that matters. I need a more experienced farrier to deal with this. No farrier goes out to purposely lame a horse, it's happened, it's crap, we all make mistakes in our jobs it's one of those things. I am not asking for opinions on my relationship with the farrier etc, just whether anyone has dealt with this before.

You didn't say you had contacted him. He ought to be attending with the vet so he can discuss with your vet the shoeing and what has happened. I appreciate you are really upset-who wouldn't be-but he ought to be involved, especially as he is being blamed for the laminitis.

 

[eggs]

Happened to me a few years ago with my regular farrier. Toes taken back too short on a 17 hand horse. Developed stress laminitis which took 6 months of box rest to resolve with a couple of setbacks along the way but he did make a complete recovery.

 

[Michen]

Oh Jesus.

Happened to me a few years ago with my regular farrier. Toes taken back too short on a 17 hand horse. Developed stress laminitis which took 6 months of box rest to resolve with a couple of setbacks along the way but he did make a complete recovery.

 

[eggs]

Don't despair. My horse also had esm so we were dealing with additional complications.

 

[HashRouge]

My sister's horse had stress laminitis 3 or 4 years ago. He has navicular and as a last ditch attempt to make remedial shoeing work, the farrier obviously took far too much hoof off and the poor boy was in agony . The farrier, I hasten to add, was working from x-rays and in conjunction with a vet, but it still happened. He actually wasn't bad for too long. I can't remember exactly, but I would say within a week he was more or less back to normal and we then sent him to Nic at Rockley. Somewhere along the way we took his shoes off, but I can't remember how soon after the bout of laminitis it was. Not suggesting your horse needs to go to Rockley btw - our boy obviously had navicular and was being remedially shod when the laminitis happened, which was really the final push we needed to send him to Nic.

 

[Michen]

That gives me hope. If he's feeling better in a week I will be ecstatic! Just done a mass order of pads!

My sister's horse had stress laminitis 3 or 4 years ago. He has navicular and as a last ditch attempt to make remedial shoeing work, the farrier obviously took far too much hoof off and the poor boy was in agony . The farrier, I hasten to add, was working from x-rays and in conjunction with a vet, but it still happened. He actually wasn't bad for too long. I can't remember exactly, but I would say within a week he was more or less back to normal and we then sent him to Nic at Rockley. Somewhere along the way we took his shoes off, but I can't remember how soon after the bout of laminitis it was. Not suggesting your horse needs to go to Rockley btw - our boy obviously had navicular and was being remedially shod when the laminitis happened, which was really the final push we needed to send him to Nic.

 

[DirectorFury]

I had a very similar thread last year: http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/foru...394-Can-shoeing-trigger-lami-(Saga-like-post)

We left shoes on in this case as it was just that the farrier had trimmed her too short, she was 100% sound and back in work after 10 days. No sign of anything happening on foot xrays when they were taken 20 days after the initial shoeing.

 

[Michen]

Thank you. I almost wish I hadn't pulled the shoes. God I just feel terrible especially as he's on loan and this has happened under my watch. I'm so meticulous with his care in every way and then this happens!

I had a very similar thread last year: http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/foru...394-Can-shoeing-trigger-lami-(Saga-like-post)

We left shoes on in this case as it was just that the farrier had trimmed her too short, she was 100% sound and back in work after 10 days. No sign of anything happening on foot xrays when they were taken 20 days after the initial shoeing.

 

[DirectorFury]

Thank you. I almost wish I hadn't pulled the shoes. God I just feel terrible especially as he's on loan and this has happened under my watch. I'm so meticulous with his care in every way and then this happens!

It's not your fault so please don't blame yourself! You trusted a qualified farrier and he made a mistake - it's just something that happens. Though I hope yours has handled it better than mine did.

Pulling shoes is standard for laminitis so I wouldn't worry on that front. The only reason mine had her shoes left on is because no ****** could agree on what to do.

 

[Michen]

Just read thread properly. Unfortunately horse still very very sore this morning though ok on his bed and chirpy in himself. I just feel bad as I thought at the time he had taken that toe back but it was too late by then. Hey ho- you live and learn. I find it so hard to put my trust in professionals having been thoroughly let down in the past until I found my (now moved) farrier who I trust completely.

Thank you. I almost wish I hadn't pulled the shoes. God I just feel terrible especially as he's on loan and this has happened under my watch. I'm so meticulous with his care in every way and then this happens!

It's not your fault so please don't blame yourself! You trusted a qualified farrier and he made a mistake - it's just something that happens. Though I hope yours has handled it better than mine did.

Pulling shoes is standard for laminitis so I wouldn't worry on that front. The only reason mine had her shoes left on is because no ****** could agree on what to do.

 

[ester]

You didn't say you had contacted him. He ought to be attending with the vet so he can discuss with your vet the shoeing and what has happened. I appreciate you are really upset-who wouldn't be-but he ought to be involved, especially as he is being blamed for the laminitis.

Of course he is being blamed for the laminitis 24 hours after he trimmed and shod the feet. Horse has mechanical/stress laminitis he doesn't need to know anything else.

he wouldn't be coming within 10 miles of my horse again, mistake or not. I don't know why you think he should be involved at this point.

 

[Michen]

Well the horse was lame immediately after shoeing.. Though only crippled lame once the shoes were off. I am trying very hard to be level headed and calm about it as at this point pointing fingers will not help me or the horse, my focus is on B and doing what I can to get him better. The rest I will deal with later. Anyway he's under the care of the vet practice owner and whatever he needs he will get. I am just absolutely praying no permanent damage.

Thank you. I almost wish I hadn't pulled the shoes. God I just feel terrible especially as he's on loan and this has happened under my watch. I'm so meticulous with his care in every way and then this happens!

Of course he is being blamed for the laminitis 24 hours after he trimmed and shod the feet. Horse has mechanical/stress laminitis he doesn't need to know anything else.

he wouldn't be coming within 10 miles of my horse again, mistake or not. I don't know why you think he should be involved at this point.

 

[ester]

Oi, you know as well as me how good feet are at sorting themselves out in most circumstances and a bit of time. As I said you might just have some acute inflammation which doesn't develop further because you acted so quickly so quit worrying too much about the future right now

 

[Tiddlypom]

Of course he is being blamed for the laminitis 24 hours after he trimmed and shod the feet. Horse has mechanical/stress laminitis he doesn't need to know anything else.

he wouldn't be coming within 10 miles of my horse again, mistake or not. I don't know why you think he should be involved at this point.

IIRC horsemadmum1's OH is a farrier, so she is probably thinking of correct professional etiquette and what not.

I thoroughly agree with you and others, Ester, though, he wouldn't be touching my horse ever again. Remember that this is the first time that he has shod Michen's horse. It would be different if he was a long term trusted farrier and this had happened out of the blue.

 

[Michen]

Well no, he won't, but not because I feel he is hugely incompetent. I know that sounds bizarre but I bet most experienced farriers have made a mistake like this in the past even if the outcome wasn't quite as severe. The nails were good etc. He is young, keen and cares about his job and he will learn from this as have I. I have met him several times before as he works with my old farrier but has never actually done my horses feet. But obviously the trust is broken and I have to be able to trust my farrier to make the decisions regarding my horses feet. But these things happen... And my job now is to make sure the horse has the best he can get so at the moment that equals lots of experienced professionals who have dealt with situations like this.

Ps I have spent the last 12 hours feeling angry and bitter but what's the point? It's done now.

Thank you. I almost wish I hadn't pulled the shoes. God I just feel terrible especially as he's on loan and this has happened under my watch. I'm so meticulous with his care in every way and then this happens!

IIRC horsemadmum1's OH is a farrier, so she is probably thinking of correct professional etiquette and what not.

I thoroughly agree with you and others, Ester, though, he wouldn't be touching my horse ever again. Remember that this is the first time that he has shod Michen's horse. It would be different if he was a long term trusted farrier and this had happened out of the blue.

 

[Arzada]

He is young, keen and cares about his job and he will learn from this as have I.

First of all I'm sorry that you have this experience - you must be just so upset. If this farrier is keen etc hopefully he will voluntarily book and pay for an appointment with your vet to discuss and learn. Our vet offered to do this for free with a farrier in a similar situation - sadly the farrier did not take up the offer.

 

[Michen]

Yes maybe. To be honest I don't think it's unreasonable to expect him to cover the vet costs from this. Particularly if I have to X Ray and have another call out on Monday if he's not looking significantly better. I'm not sure.. Maybe that's not reasonable? I'm sure he will want to do the right thing.

Thank you. I almost wish I hadn't pulled the shoes. God I just feel terrible especially as he's on loan and this has happened under my watch. I'm so meticulous with his care in every way and then this happens!

First of all I'm sorry that you have this experience - you must be just so upset. If this farrier is keen etc hopefully he will voluntarily book and pay for an appointment with your vet to discuss and learn. Our vet offered to do this for free with a farrier in a similar situation - sadly the farrier did not take up the offer.

 

[Goldenstar]

You didn't say you had contacted him. He ought to be attending with the vet so he can discuss with your vet the shoeing and what has happened. I appreciate you are really upset-who wouldn't be-but he ought to be involved, especially as he is being blamed for the laminitis.

If Michen does not want him near her horse she has every right to change farrier and never contact that farrier again .

Gung ho farriers who change to much to quickly do lots of damage, pity their governing body is too busy trying to stop owners rasping their horses feet to do anything about stuff like this .
Michen it's rotten this has happened but have you looked into his diet to see why the soles are too thin .

 

[Michen]

Yes he's on perfect barefoot diet. Forage plus, the lot. The vet noted that although his soles flex to thumb pressure he wasn't overly sensitive as if his pedal bone was anywhere near that floor- so perhaps I can blame the bizarre wet to hard ground? In all honesty I've never checked to see whether they give to thumb pressure or noticed whether they have. He has decent frogs, no thrush, they are great. His feet aren't tragic, they aren't ideal and they are typically "shod" feet but they have improved with every shoeing with my farrier on a short 5 week cycle and with a good diet. I've always been cautious with things like keratex as to whether it does more harm than good. Perhaps it's better to describe his soles as soft rather than thin, as in theory you'd need an X Ray to show the depth.

I am trying not to get ahead of myself and just to focus on the problem in front of me. Diet wise etc there is not much more I can improve but this is a horse who has never had a bruise or abscess in his life and who works over a huge amount of varied terrain so I'm trying not to panic as his soles can't be that tragic as he has stood up to everything asked of him since his shoeing, and suspected one off bruise.

Thank you. I almost wish I hadn't pulled the shoes. God I just feel terrible especially as he's on loan and this has happened under my watch. I'm so meticulous with his care in every way and then this happens!

If Michen does not want him near her horse she has every right to change farrier and never contact that farrier again .

Gung ho farriers who change to much to quickly do lots of damage, pity their governing body is too busy trying to stop owners rasping their horses feet to do anything about stuff like this .
Michen it's rotten this has happened but have you looked into his diet to see why the soles are too thin .

 

[ester]

The vet thought frank's soles were very flexible which surprised me, she was then suprised how thick that flexible sole could be!

 

[Goldenstar]

I confess I use keratex if I think it will help the horses comfort while I sort stuff out .
It's not as if your going be to bathing him it for a decade .