Strong (and I mean like seriously strong) horse issue...

lucy_108

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In need of help/support/hugs/gin...

So one of my horses is very strong, hence the title. He is so strong to the point I actually don’t enjoy riding him, which sucks, because I adore every bone in his body.

A little history on said steam roller...
He is 11, has previous jumped big tracks before being passed around riders who also thought he would jump big tracks for them (they were wrong).

I imagine his steam roller attitude has come from these riders putting some serious metalwork in his mouth to try and shortcut schooling.

Anyway, he has had a full vet work up, had a full dental check in clinic under sedation, regularly sees a physio and equine touch therapist, is shod on the dot of five weeks and has a saddle that is custom made for him and checked regularly. Physically, I actually can’t dot anymore I’s or cross anymore T’s unless I get him a MRI.

So I started at the bottom with snaffles (many variations). He will work fairly well in one, in a small enclosed arena, but is a total train when you do anything but walk and trot. I have been forced (for safety) into trying some other bits which include Pelham (many variations - rubber, rugby, French link, straight bar...) with one and two reins and three and two ring Dutch gags.

eventually I turned to my trusty American gag that I had my previous giant jumper in who went perfectly in it. This was the best of a bad lot for us and was the only bit I had any vague control in to canter or jump. But he throws his head like a real moose in it so I know it isn’t the bit for him.

I have also tried every form of bitless, hoping the less is more approach might help. It actually has the opposite affect and he is near enough uncontrollable without a bit (I may as well ride him in a shoelace).

I have had a professional bit-fitter out, who is flummoxed as everything that *should* have suited his mouth-tongue-way-of-going, didn’t.

So friends, I’m at a loss. I have a horse whom I love so very much, who is so very talented that I cannot ride one side of above walk... not because either of us are incapable but because it’s just not enjoyable.

I like to think I have enough brain cells to know when a horse needs a little more metal and when a horse needs a little more schooling and believe me when I say, I’ve tried. I have been for lesson after lesson after lesson and although he makes progress, it’s inconsistent and varied and nearly always results in him reverting to his old ways within two or three rides.

I have even tried a different rider, accepting the possibility it’s me, but he was just as bad (if not worse) for a rider who has far more experience than me (4* rider with incredibly soft hands).

So I’m asking for your thoughts... please not your criticism, I actually may cry ??‍♀️....

Sadly I have maxed out nearly all my insurance on diagnostic testing (nerve blocks, xrays, scans etc) so I can’t do anymore vet work (not that there’s really any more that can be done!).

Currently, I am on track to retire him to a life of plodding around the village which would make both of us very sad so if anyone has had any similar experiences or advice, please share.
 
You sound like great owner so don’t beat yourself up and I hope you take this the right way but do you think he might be better suited to another rider ? It doesn’t sound like it’s a medical problem, it sounds like it’s just his way of going and maybe nothing will change him now ?
 
Have you Poponcini bits?

A friend is a GP jumper with some seriously strong horses & one that was just not having a good time with bits & she did the same & tried everything... bitless etc but once she tried these bits, the horse turned inside out & was completely rideable!

Only downside is they are stupidly expensive but if it didnt work for you... you could sell it on maybe? Xx
 
You sound like great owner so don’t beat yourself up and I hope you take this the right way but do you think he might be better suited to another rider ? It doesn’t sound like it’s a medical problem, it sounds like it’s just his way of going and maybe nothing will change him now ?

Thanks :) I’m not keen to pass him on or sell him as he could end up somewhere unfavourable and I’d never forgive myself. I am usually the type of rider than suits this kind of horse so I had hoped that it wouldn’t be a problem...
 
Have you Poponcini bits?

A friend is a GP jumper with some seriously strong horses & one that was just not having a good time with bits & she did the same & tried everything... bitless etc but once she tried these bits, the horse turned inside out & was completely rideable!

Thanks for that recommendation, I’ve just looked at them... I best get saving!

Only downside is they are stupidly expensive but if it didnt work for you... you could sell it on maybe? Xx
 
Have you tried a combination bit/noseband?
Martingale to help settle the head?
Does a flash/grackle/drop/cavesson/no noseband make any difference?
(Not suggesting strapping his head down and forcing him, but just wondering if a bit of guidance/security helps or hinders?)

When you say strong as well, what do you mean specifically? Ie, just no brakes, no variation within pace, leans, opens mouth, tanks/gets faster and faster etc?

What does he do if you push him on? Take a hold? Have no contact at all (so nothing to fight?)

What have previous riders/owners tried - especially anyone who may have had him a while or been successful with him?
 
How about asking a show jumper? Has he been ridden by a man at some time? I know it is not PC, but some horses are, or become,
men's horses, and it really sounds as though he has no mouth at all.

The only other, way-out suggestion is to ask a western trainer.
 
Have you tried a combination bit/noseband?
Martingale to help settle the head?
Does a flash/grackle/drop/cavesson/no noseband make any difference?
(Not suggesting strapping his head down and forcing him, but just wondering if a bit of guidance/security helps or hinders?)

When you say strong as well, what do you mean specifically? Ie, just no brakes, no variation within pace, leans, opens mouth, tanks/gets faster and faster etc?

What does he do if you push him on? Take a hold? Have no contact at all (so nothing to fight?)

What have previous riders/owners tried - especially anyone who may have had him a while or been successful with him?

The only noseband I have left to try in a lever noseband... I haven’t tried a combination but as I actually don’t trust myself to fit one. I did try hackamore and bit combo which didn’t work. He wears a martingale and I have tried a standing (which didn’t make loads of difference).

He is the type of strong that just gets faster and faster until you end up (unintentionally) in a pulling match. I’ve tried throwing the reins at him (he literally just galloped off) and I’ve tried taking a hard hold and he just fights more (unsurprisingly).

He was successfully jumped by a man in a rugby Pelham. When I say successfully, it didn’t look all that comfortable, but they got round. That was 6 years ago though..
 
Could be a completely bonkers idea but if he’s not responding to things on his face see if you can teach him to go in a neck rope? Keeping a bridle on of course for safety reasons.
 
Can you try the moment he speeds up he is pulled up? So canter for 3 strides and back to trot or walk. Once that is easy go for 4 strides. This has helped Robin, he can be strong but he knows if he gets too fast we come right back, if he canters along sensibly he gets to keep going. The other thing that helped Minto was similar but we found a flat field and every time he got strong we would circle. Sometimes we only got 1 straight stride but he seemed to work out it literally got him nowhere. Also agree trying the use of a neck strap, a tug on that can sometimes steady them.
 
I am going to offer no thoughts at all, but this thread has reminded me of a moment out hunting many years ago.

I had a wonderful, wild and very strong Welsh cob. He wore a nathe american gag with a back strap on, I was mostly out of control, but being young and stupid I tolerated it. He simply curled up his massive crested neck, stuck his nose to his chest and did pretty much wanted he wanted to do at speed. Never bucked, never naughty just fast forwards.

We were cantering slowly down hill when hounds found and the pace quickened. Either side of the track we were on was a sprout field. Alongside me was my instructor and good friend, who is now a very highly respected coach and fellow of the BHS. 'Don't pull at him she said, 'give and take' he can't get hold of you then'.

I gave as instructed, he took and we careered off the track and into the sprouts. Still going downhill and towards the bottom of the field. I am tugging right, nothing is happening and sprouts are airborne. I seriously needed to turn right because if we don't there was a choice of a massive hedge or a pond. Do you have any idea how long it takes a Melton hunt coat to dry out after a visit to the bottom of a pond !
 
I was out riding yesterday with a young bloke on a Frison mare, in a "licol éthologique"; this is pretty much a rope halter, with a loop rein attached under the chin, like a hackamore.

I asked about the reasons for this, and he told me that when he first got her (for a song) she had a reputation for being difficult, tanking off, generally being difficult to slow down.

After changing to riding her bitless, which he says made him use his seat more to manage her speed, she calmed down enormously.
 
Just thinking outside the box, when I bought a mare who would not take a contact ( I know, opposite of yours)and just chucked her head about,I put her in a heavily padded headpiece that covered the TMJ as well. She has become a totally different horse, and we later found she had a C! trauma which must have given her an almighty headache. The other thing is a really detailed check of his mouth.
 
I had a big horse who pulled like a train out hunting. The only bit I could hold him in was a mikmar. He detested the nose piece, though, and I had to take it off.

I have heard of big successes with a peewit, but it didn't work on mine.

.
 
Bridles are often the problem. .They may be too small and putting pressure on the poll. Nosebands try without one. Hopefully your bitting expert checked the bridle and gave suggestions about its fitting.
 
How about asking a show jumper? Has he been ridden by a man at some time? I know it is not PC, but some horses are, or become,
men's horses, and it really sounds as though he has no mouth at all.

The only other, way-out suggestion is to ask a western trainer.
I would second the western trainer
 
You may not fix this if it’s so ingrained (but I hope you do!)

A Waterford Cheltenham with a kineton noseband springs to mind.

Wouldn’t it be nice if they could speak!!

Is your gut feel that this is a happy/excited behaviour or is it more a stress/anxiety behaviour? I’m leaning towards the latter from what you say.
 
You may not fix this if it’s so ingrained (but I hope you do!)

A Waterford Cheltenham with a kineton noseband springs to mind.

Wouldn’t it be nice if they could speak!!

Is your gut feel that this is a happy/excited behaviour or is it more a stress/anxiety behaviour? I’m leaning towards the latter from what you say.
A Kineton noseband was the key to controlling my thug
 
I have absolutely no idea and many people far more experienced than me have already replied. So feel free to ignore this. But to my mind any horse could pit their strength against a puny human and win. Most choose not to. So it's the brain not the mouth that seems to be the problem. I'd echo the western rider idea as they seem to focus on that side of things. The 'why' of it. As in why is he not listening to a bit? Why is he running? I don't think you can know the answer yet - it needs someone experienced in getting into a horse;s head to spend time with him to work it out.

What is he like on the lunge or on long reins??
 
I love a Kineton noseband!

It sounds to me like this may be a stress/anxiety response from being ridden in a high pressure way by previous owners - and by high pressure i don't mean badly, I just mean against the clock, bitted up etc.

I would be inclined, if none of the above bit/noseband combinations work, to turn him out for 3 months - let him be a horse and calm down, and then bring him back slowly. Not guaranteed, but down time and Dr Green is a good remedy for most things.
 
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