Strong fast horse....Help please

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jes220782

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I need some help and advise with regards bit/noseband. A bit about me, I have had and ridden horses for 20+ years, broken many horses of my own and helped with other peoples. I still have fortnightly lessons. A bit about Halo, she's a 17hh, 4 year old sports horse who I acquired in quite a sorry state in May, she was fed up slowly, backed and broken over the summer and has been a dream but we've come to a bit of a stale mate. She's always been fast, she has huge paces and rushes everywhere. Over the summer we have worked on this constantly and she's collected herself well, her transitions need work as she's not working from behind properly yet and she carries herself lovely most of the time, sometimes over bends but this has gotten less and less, she's very responsive off the leg (sometimes too responsive) and generally stops easily enough. The problem were having is the speed has returned with a vengeance but she's also getting quite strong/leaning to the point my shoulders are aching for hours when I've finished schooling, out on a hack she's really quite good (although a lot more spooky lately). I can half half till I'm blue in the face and I try not to hold her but she just gets faster and faster and as her balance isn't great I don't feel safe. She leaned when we first started schooling so changed bits until she seemed comfortable and we've settle for a verbidend which she's been fine in for 3 months, I don't really want to put a strong bit in her mouth and she's really soft and responsive when she's not dragging me around. Does anybody have any advise? Should I try a flash or grackle out before changing her bit? We need to do something because we just end up fighting in every schooling session, everything my instructor suggests either works for a day or not at all.
 
She's only 4 and is a big mare. You might find schooling in a larger arena helps because much of this could be to do with balance.

The other thing to think about is how tall you are in relation to the size of the horse. I've ridden a lot of big horses, but struggle ultimately when they're over 17hh with schooling - because my legs simply aren't long enough. And I'm simply a pea on a drum as it were.
 
Hmm. She's only 4, and rushing as well as leaning. To me, that sounds like a bit of a balance issue - she's a very big girlie for a 4yo. It may be time to scale back on the work and let her do some growing. Do you hack more than school? And how long do you school for? Also, do you do any long reining?

You say she's in a Verbindend. I am afraid that my last horse leaned like hell in a Verbindend, no matter how hard I tried to ride him from behind. They say Waterfords are good for leaners, but I would be very reluctant at putting a Waterford in a youngster that sounds forward going and willing in every other way. Perhaps a switch to a more traditional style of bit - a french link rather than a lozenge could help?
 
Waterford snaffle is brilliant for anything which does lean, but agree with the above, young, big mare will not be fully balanced.
Maybe do some circles, she wouldn't be able to do too fast then, spiral them in and out to help with balance and keep interesting x
 
My legs are very long and wrap around her lol We don't have a big school so unfortunately we have to work with what we have for now. I think it is all balance, she is huge and all legs but she needs to learn how to use them problem is I can't get her working from behind as I'm constantly being dragged around. We tried halting and pushing off her weaker hind leg into trot to build the muscles up but she decided rearing every time i asked her to halt easier so we stopped that quickly.
 
If your arena is not big enough then you'll struggle. You really only need to be in there once a week any way (but if it's too small for her then you still have a problem) - and much of your schooling can be done out on hacks.

But ultimately if you can't give her the physical environment to help her - then you're on to a loosing wicket and the horse will become ever increasingly strong, 'naughty, and ultimately sour.
 
Unfortunately I can't turn her away completely as we don't have winter turn out, we still have every other day until Xmas but then there in =( We do hack more than school but with these dark nights we have to school a few times a week, also she's gotten a little bit spooky with traffic so we can't hack alone which means if there's no one to ride out with we have to go in the school, I only school for half an hour max. She also gets lunged everyday, I try to exercise her twice a day (the days she's in) as she has a lot of energy in this cold weather. I feed her calm and condition, calming chop and also top spec calmer and good haylage although she's not a greedy horse so has to have 3 feeds a day otherwise she drops weight.
 
Perhaps you are expecting too much from a big 4 year old? Like others have said, she may just have a problem balancing and working from behind is a long-term goal surely? Far more important to keep them interested and happy than aiming for collection so early - I would also give her a break and come back to hacking for a few months after that.:)
 
The school is a good size just not huge, she's been fine with it all summer this fast/leaning has only returned in the last 4 weeks. Unfortunately the yard isn't ideal at present we have new owners and a full size school on the cards but not until next summer.
My other horse very rarely went in the school, we did all our schooling out hacking but he did mature very quickly, I'm not a fan of schooling myself. Maybe just hacking all winter is the way forward and turning out in the school or lunging on the days we can't get out and try again next spring
 
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Have you tried circles to slow her? My big lad was very onward bound, popping in a few circles would slow him down perfectly. You say your shoulders ache after you ride, it takes 2 to lean! I know the feeling, you want her to slow down so you pull, but its not a fight you are going to win. You will have to slow her with your seat and circles, not not with the bit. If you don't pull on it she can't lean. But I guess your instructor has went through all this already :)
 
Tried circles and she doesn't slow down just ends up tripping over her legs and it's too far to fall haha also using my legs to bend and half halt just makes her go faster, she is very sensitive to the leg. I know it takes 2 to lean and I've tried not holding her at all but she just gets faster and faster, it's unsafe. Think I'll just stop with the schooling altogether until next year, just feel like it's 10 steps back because she was doing so well
 
OH has a huge mare who has taken a very long time to mature. She's got incredible paces, but not the strength to cope with them. Trainer banned him from straight lines, and whenever she gets strong, he takes his weight (shoulders) back to help her shift her balance back, and does a smaller circle. He spent months in walk. I wouldn't be expecting a 4yo of that size and lack of balance to do halt trot transitions, so perhaps listen to the rearing on that one. If you have to work her, rather than turn away, what about sticking in walk, slowing the pace right down to allow her to work out where her legs are and where she's putting them, and working on balance and bend? You then also don't need a huge manege.
 
She fine if not a little slow in walk, it's mainly trot and when we canter (although don't canter much in the school) I'm going to take all the advise and mainly hack her over winter, if I do have to use the school I can lunge and just do walk, bending and circles etc
 
Management not ideal but doesn't sound like there's much you can change about that. I would swap the lunging for long lining. Firstly, the lunging could be teaching her to use leaning as a way of balancing. It's very easy for a big young horse to lean when being lunged because it is such a restrictive space in which to manage those big strides. Long reining will help break that habit. Long rein without circles will be even better. Just do it in walk and use the school to create bend and work on transitions.

In ridden work in the school, I would actually avoid circles where possible, it sounds to me as though she is struggling with them. Ideally I would turn her away, but as you can't I would drastically lessen the workload. I would not want to canter her in that school for a couple of months. I'd work on her being able to self balance first. She may be doing this a bit already if she is carrying herself well, but if she's feeling fast, she may be trying to use you for balance as well and trying to literally run into the contact. The only way to break the cycle is to change the cycle. Don't stay in any gait for too long. Long enough that you can reward good work but not so long that she can get fast. Think about even a 20 minute session containing at least 80 transistions. I know that may sound like a lot, but even 40 transitions in 20 minutes is only one transition for every 30 seconds and 30 seconds is a long time in terms of a horse being able to run through you. The more transitions, the less time she will have to get in the cycle of imbalance and getting fast. Also, as a young horse, the more transitions you do, the more you can stimulate her mentally which will help with keeping her mentally sound whilst not working her quite as much.

Have a think on it and ask if you want any specific exercises, but I don't think you need teaching how to suck eggs :)
 
Thanks GG that's exactly what she's doing, running into a contact and when I don't pick it up for her she just gets faster. I'm not a fan of lunging anyway so that suits me. I'll try the transition exercise next time we go in the school. Thanks again
 
jes220782 said:
Thanks GG that's exactly what she's doing, running into a contact and when I don't pick it up for her she just gets faster. I'm not a fan of lunging anyway so that suits me. I'll try the transition exercise next time we go in the school. Thanks again
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No probs. Just give me a shout if you need any other ideas :)
 
There could be all manner of things going on or, more likely, a few factors coming together.

Horses' shape and balance change as they grow and allowances have to be made for this in training. It's quite possible that something that was easy for her a few weeks ago may be harder for her now. I find that there can also be some loss of strength before/during a growth spurt, which makes sense when you think about the mechanism. Even in older horses, thought, improvement is not linear and consistent. If you ask for/expect the same rate of progress then you will inevitably overreach what the horse can give you at some point. This doesn't mean you have to lay the horse off, just that you may have to stay at a level or even go back a few steps in what you are asking if the horse is struggling or even not progressing as you expect.

I am a bit interested in your use of "collection" as I can't see any horse at that level being ready to start any kind of collected work - there simply hasn't been enough time or development to reach that stage in the training pyramid.

Aside from that, from your report (with my usual qualifier that it is impossible to really advise without seeing the horse) it would seem that the basics are a bit shaky and there might be some misunderstanding. There is nothing intrinsic in pulling on a horse's mouth that makes it shorten/slow/rebalance - if you get on a baby horse that has not been educated to the hand and pull, I can guarantee none of those things will happen. So connection and correct acceptance of the hand is a totally learned skill (in concert with learning about the driving aids, how to balance under the rider and a host of other skills).

Does she understand the hand? If you trot on a soft contact and put a bit of pressure on the rein does she slow? If she does not do this calmly, you have to go back to the point at which she does, even if that is in walk, and go forward from there.

Same with the driving aids. Does she accept the leg on her side, increasing pace at the rate you want when you apply the leg lightly and decreasing when you lighten the pressure? Can you balance the driving aid to be able to use the minimum amount of hand?

If you keep increasing the hand aid you are only teaching her to adapt to a stronger and stronger aid. Trying to fix that with protracted stronger aids (or a bit that makes your aid stronger) will only make the situation worse. There are certain situations where older horses become so excited or need such precision that a more advanced bit is needed to produce the desired result but my opinion is no 4 year old doing normal work for that age should be getting so wound up.

What happens if your instructor rides her? Does he/she find the horse as strong? Can he/she make the horse lighter for you to ride?

I don't think just hacking for the winter will do any harm at all (and it's interesting and probably pertinent that you don't find the horse strong in the hand in that situation). But even if the horse is in a better place to work in the school when you come back to it, there may be some reeducation on order. My advice would be do if now, when it's easy, rather than leave it until the horse just gets stronger and stronger to the point where it is habit for her to lean on you. I suspect you already know this or you wouldn't be asking!
 
I think you are right about the hacking. Sounds like she is struggling, you don't want to push her and with the limitations you have I'd hack all winter. If she gets fresh with the lack of turnout maybe loose school?! She can have a blast and a roll. Tbh it would be more ideal if you could find a yard with all year turnout as hacking out a big fresh 4yr old could be interesting...
She sounds like she needs the winter to grow into herself, with a break in schooling you could find her mentally and physically a better mare in the spring.
If she was mine I'd find a yard with turnout every day and hack a couple times a week to chill her out but also encourage her to use herself maybe with walking up hills and if she was still a bit fresh I'd do some loose schooling in between. Nothing mentally or physically taxing and then introduce some quiet schooling early spring and go from there :).
 
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