Strong horse putting head down after jumps

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frankieduck

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Has anyone ridden or trained a horse like this and have any tips?

I’m schooling my horse for eventing, he previously hunted and arrived with very little basic schooling. He’s bold as brass over a fence- albeit at 100mph! We’ve worked hard on this, and I can now collect him somewhat before a jump. But the issue is on landing- he loves to chuck his head down, and it’s a pain.

I don’t think I’m catching him in the mouth (at least my trainer says I’m not and generally I err on the side of being TOO light with my hand). ). I think it is potentially mostly a learned way of going from his hunting days of ‘land and gallop’ - and partly that he’s just a big lad with a huge canter who lands strung out and needs a second to rebalance.

The problem is:
- If I keep the contact, I nearly get towed over his head (hasn’t happened yet, but my core is getting a workout!)
- If I slip my reins, he takes full advantage and tanks off for a few strides before I can gather him back up

Are there any exercises or tweaks to my riding that might help? Or is this just a case of patience and repetition?

I’m 99% sure it’s a training thing, not pain-related- he had a full MOT at the vets (including X-rays) three months ago to rule anything out going on with his back, sees the physio every three months, and has his saddles professionally checked every six months. He also does the exact same thing free-schooling—lands, throws his head down, and has a full-on ‘yee haa’ moment.

I do have regular lessons (weekly or twice weekly), and my trainer keeps reassuring me that it’s not my riding - it’s just that my horse needs to figure things out and learn a new way of going, but I would really love some ideas on how I can help him more!
 
It's a hard thing to fix, but you need to be super disciplined. You must pull up (gently, quietly, but insist) after every single fence. Start by teaching it after a single pole in walk, then trot, then canter, then a line of poles, the a fence and so on. Always pull up in a straight line. Stop, stand still, release the pressure and praise (bribery can help if he's motivated by a pony nut!)
 
TheMule said:
It's a hard thing to fix, but you need to be super disciplined. You must pull up (gently, quietly, but insist) after every single fence. Start by teaching it after a single pole in walk, then trot, then canter, then a line of poles, the a fence and so on. Always pull up in a straight line. Stop, stand still, release the pressure and praise (bribery can help if he's motivated by a pony nut!)
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Thank you! When he arrived he had very limited brakes but despite being strong was also very fussy in the mouth, he would tuck behind the contact and fuss and lean. Probably a bit unconventional but I actually worked on this by slowing him off my voice and rewarding him with a treat when he stopped (he's very food motivated!) just to get out of the cycle of rein-pressure and him getting into a fight with me. He's now pretty good at slowing off my voice, but it is a bit all or nothing as "woah' means screech to a halt 😄 So this may be worth a shot! After the initial 2-3 strides after a fence I can rebalance him and get him back to me but I can't seem to nip the initial "yee haa" moment on landing in the bud!
 
frankieduck said:
Thank you! When he arrived he had very limited brakes but despite being strong was also very fussy in the mouth, he would tuck behind the contact and fuss and lean. Probably a bit unconventional but I actually worked on this by slowing him off my voice and rewarding him with a treat when he stopped (he's very food motivated!) just to get out of the cycle of rein-pressure and him getting into a fight with me. He's now pretty good at slowing off my voice, but it is a bit all or nothing as "woah' means screech to a halt 😄 So this may be worth a shot! After the initial 2-3 strides after a fence I can rebalance him and get him back to me but I can't seem to nip the initial "yee haa" moment on landing in the bud!
Click to expand...

It sounds like you have a good starting point- you're going to want to aim to replace the halt with a half halt and get it closer and closer to the fence.
 
i had a few similar ones and I found a Market Harborough very handy, allowed me to reward and release quicker when horse was good. Embarrased to say this but there was one horse that was so bad we brought it straight back to poles on ground halting directly after and giving treat when halted. then went up to crosspole, same thing, then normal jump same thing. didn't move on to 2 jumps in a row until we had one with no tension. poles after fence worked well as well. it took ages, but we gradually could add jumps together without the excitement level getting any higher. really had to go back to basics and it did take a few months, but we got there and the horse was far more mannerly around a course
 
dottylottie said:
not an area of expertise for me i will admit, but if he was mine i’d be doing little grid work exercises over poles and small jumps to keep him thinking, and hopefully avoid the “yee-haa” moment!
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Thank you, we do gridwork with him but unfortunately it does not back him off at all and he just picks up speed throughout the grid and saves the yee-ha for the last fence! Evidence though that he CAN collect between fences!
 
paddi22 said:
i had a few similar ones and I found a Market Harborough very handy, allowed me to reward and release quicker when horse was good. Embarrased to say this but there was one horse that was so bad we brought it straight back to poles on ground halting directly after and giving treat when halted. then went up to crosspole, same thing, then normal jump same thing. didn't move on to 2 jumps in a row until we had one with no tension. poles after fence worked well as well. it took ages, but we gradually could add jumps together without the excitement level getting any higher. really had to go back to basics and it did take a few months, but we got there and the horse was far more mannerly around a course
Click to expand...
Thank you, this gives me hope! I have him in a balding gag for jumping now as find it gives a very clear action and I can let him travel between the fences but give a quick correction and then release when needed. Have tried various other bits but he just got stronger and leaned, the lifting action of the gag does seem to help, along with the fact I can immediately give amd release once his head comes up. I think you're absolutely right, we did take him right back to basics in this way at the start and he got more civilised but as we have started to jump courses with him he gets more unruly as we go round, so back to basics it is.
 
paddi22 said:
i had a few similar ones and I found a Market Harborough very handy, allowed me to reward and release quicker when horse was good. Embarrased to say this but there was one horse that was so bad we brought it straight back to poles on ground halting directly after and giving treat when halted. then went up to crosspole, same thing, then normal jump same thing. didn't move on to 2 jumps in a row until we had one with no tension. poles after fence worked well as well. it took ages, but we gradually could add jumps together without the excitement level getting any higher. really had to go back to basics and it did take a few months, but we got there and the horse was far more mannerly around a course
Click to expand...
I had similar - and did similar too.
Though then adding jumping on and off a circle at each end of arena, then serpentines over fences put on a centre line, meant we had a stride to think after landing but no 'open end' to 'speedway aim at' except v high arena fence.

Good luck OP, mine took a lot of work but ended up with a v focussed mount who could turn on a proverbial sixpence.
 
Not a schooling tip, however I bought a horse with this habit.
He had been 3*** eventing and got so bad, when I tried him, the lady who evented him wouldn't even jump a cross pole with him 🙈

I took him out of the gag, grackle and martingale he was in.
Put him in a normal eggbutt snaffle and a combination noseband and he was 300% better immediately.

It took some time but just using my bodyweight and voice to whoa, helped a lot.
He would still make up huge amounts of ground in a related distance (fine in doubles) so sometimes we'd put 3 in a 4 stride distance but his head stayed up and he stayed rideable- we were jumping 1.20m courses before I lost him to an old injury caused by old rider.
 
millitiger said:
Not a schooling tip, however I bought a horse with this habit.
He had been 3*** eventing and got so bad, when I tried him, the lady who evented him wouldn't even jump a cross pole with him 🙈

I took him out of the gag, grackle and martingale he was in.
Put him in a normal eggbutt snaffle and a combination noseband and he was 300% better immediately.

It took some time but just using my bodyweight and voice to whoa, helped a lot.
He would still make up huge amounts of ground in a related distance (fine in doubles) so sometimes we'd put 3 in a 4 stride distance but his head stayed up and he stayed rideable- we were jumping 1.20m courses before I lost him to an old injury caused by old rider.
Click to expand...
Thank you, yes I have tried my best to strip it right back to basics with him. He now does most things in a snaffle, I do jump him in the balding gag just because my trainer had an honest conversation with me that frankly it was getting dangerous trying to jump him in a snaffle as he was just tanking at fences flat out with his head between his knees 😳 So I swallowed my pride and popped the gag in and it does allow me to just lift him in front and collect him a bit while we work on his manners and schooling. I've probably got a bit carried away as things were going so well and he's got a hell of a pop on him, we've moved on quite quickly to jumping bigger courses and I've let things slip. My plan for the next few weeks is to take him back to a single x-pole and reinforce the woah after the fence with my seat and voice before we start stringing fences together again. 🤞 He's such a fabulous horse but it does often feel like one step forward and two back with him at times!
 
I found mine easier to ride around a course than doing exercises tbh.
Poles on the floor were a complete no-no, I think he'd had a bad experience and felt like we were trying to 'trick' him so we never did that.
Same with grids. He was a super brave and experienced horse but he would baulk sometimes at a simple grid, again, like we were trying to catch him out on purpose.

At least around a course he naturally wanted to see where the next fence was.
Occasionally, even when jumping well, I would accept 4 faults and pop a circle in when competing if I felt it starting to unravel a bit and we would reset and then carry on. That seemed to help calm his brain if it was getting ahead of his legs!
 
The grey mare in my sig started off like this
To the point my trainer told me that if we didn't get it sorted quick she was going in foal as it wasn't safe
She was also a bit fussy in the mouth, i rode her in a cheltenham gag for jumping in the same mouthpiece as her flat work snaffle, gave me enough to lift the had up but then release
I spent months not jumping two fences one after the other. I jumped, turned, stopped, circled onto fences as a surprise, circled away after, kept her guessing. Trotted into single fences (even biggish ones at 1.10/1.20) with a placing pole in front, and back to trot / walk after

She too was smart enough to shorten in a grid and then hoon off after, I stopped her at the fence of the arena straight on from the grid, didn't let her turn the corner.

It took a while but we did get there.
 
sportsmansB said:
The grey mare in my sig started off like this
To the point my trainer told me that if we didn't get it sorted quick she was going in foal as it wasn't safe
She was also a bit fussy in the mouth, i rode her in a cheltenham gag for jumping in the same mouthpiece as her flat work snaffle, gave me enough to lift the had up but then release
I spent months not jumping two fences one after the other. I jumped, turned, stopped, circled onto fences as a surprise, circled away after, kept her guessing. Trotted into single fences (even biggish ones at 1.10/1.20) with a placing pole in front, and back to trot / walk after

She too was smart enough to shorten in a grid and then hoon off after, I stopped her at the fence of the arena straight on from the grid, didn't let her turn the corner.

It took a while but we did get there.
Click to expand...
Thank you - there is light at the end of the tunnel! Have to admit I've been a bit scared of aiming him at the arena fence as I'm pretty sure he would jump it - he's bold and honest enough that whatever is in front of him he will give it a go 😳 But I may try hiring an indoor to help with this.
 
frankieduck said:
Has anyone ridden or trained a horse like this and have any tips?

I’m schooling my horse for eventing, he previously hunted and arrived with very little basic schooling. He’s bold as brass over a fence- albeit at 100mph! We’ve worked hard on this, and I can now collect him somewhat before a jump. But the issue is on landing- he loves to chuck his head down, and it’s a pain.

I don’t think I’m catching him in the mouth (at least my trainer says I’m not and generally I err on the side of being TOO light with my hand). ). I think it is potentially mostly a learned way of going from his hunting days of ‘land and gallop’ - and partly that he’s just a big lad with a huge canter who lands strung out and needs a second to rebalance.

The problem is:
- If I keep the contact, I nearly get towed over his head (hasn’t happened yet, but my core is getting a workout!)
- If I slip my reins, he takes full advantage and tanks off for a few strides before I can gather him back up

Are there any exercises or tweaks to my riding that might help? Or is this just a case of patience and repetition?

I’m 99% sure it’s a training thing, not pain-related- he had a full MOT at the vets (including X-rays) three months ago to rule anything out going on with his back, sees the physio every three months, and has his saddles professionally checked every six months. He also does the exact same thing free-schooling—lands, throws his head down, and has a full-on ‘yee haa’ moment.

I do have regular lessons (weekly or twice weekly), and my trainer keeps reassuring me that it’s not my riding - it’s just that my horse needs to figure things out and learn a new way of going, but I would really love some ideas on how I can help him more!
Click to expand...
I was going to suggest a sore neck. But then saw you've had xrays.
 
Birker2020 said:
I was going to suggest a sore neck. But then saw you've had xrays.
Click to expand...
X-Rays, full work-up, nerve blocks and a gastroscope just to cover all bases! Vet concluded he is one of the soundest horses to come through their gates and just needs to strengthen behind and learn to work correctly. We injected his SI just to see if it made any difference and he is on a regime of long-and-low, polework and water treadmill to really try and strengthen him through his back and core and help him with his way of going.
 
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