Struggling with feed

[Flowerofthefen]

How long are you leaving the speedibeet between adding water and feeding it?

I ask because just recently i added water, then ended up feeding it 18hrs later. I put a lid on the bucket soaked speedibeet when I knew there would be a delayed feed time.
Just before feeding is when i mix in their minerals, as i use it soley for getting powdered mins/vits into them.
They were mouthing it with reluctance, throwing mouthfuls outside the bowl, taking their time to get through it than they usually do.
I usually soak it and 1-3hr later feed it. Which i did the next day and they ate it fine. It made me wonder if speedibeet left soaking for hours and hours starts fermenting or something, as they really were not keen AT ALL. They usually gobble it up swiftly!
The only change was the speedibeet left soaking for longer than usual.

Maybe if youre pre-preparing soaking the grass nuts and speedibeet leaving it for 12hrs+ soaked, its not as palatable?

Mine werent so keen on soaked hay if fed many hours later, and were more keen on fresh soaked hay.

Between the 2, they get 1kg dry speedibeet soaked to share (Likely 1 stubbs scoop). Its mainly just a mineral/vit powder carrier, so a small feed.

I soak the morning feed in the evening, the lunchtime and evening feed in the morning.

 

[Flowerofthefen]

Must be costing a fortune

I agree with others, concentrate on the balancer with vits & mins then I'd be adding the scoop of the speedibeet (measured after soaking, not dry amount)

Do you struggle to keep weight on them? Is that the reason for the large feeds? A feed company should be able to find you a better targeted balancer so you can feed less in volume and save some cash as well.

I've tried a balancer and saw no results. I've also been in contact with quite a few feed companies and a bag of feed would last one horse 3 says fed at their rate. My current feed doesn't cost that much, certainly not as much as £20 odd quid every 3 days!!

 

[Flowerofthefen]

For comparison, my 17hh 3.5yo (and growing) ID gets 1 big round scoop of light molasses free chaff, and 1 balancer cup full of fast fibre (image below for size ref). So your volume does sound rather on the high side, especially considering my boy gets the biggest feed on the yard by a country mile once it's soaked/expanded.
He does then gets a treat ball with 4 single handfuls of Baileys fibre nuggets with added vits & mins overnight.
He is dropping slightly due to the grass losing nutritional value I think so I am just about to add some linseed in.

View attachment 129166

ID seem to hold their weight Where's finer breeds are harder to keep weight on.

 

[TheMule]

????? 1 scoop of beet and 1 1/2 of grass nuts would equate to around a stubbs scoop, so not lot at all. Especially since asking feed companies about their feed and a bag would last me 3 days for 1 horse!!

That’s going to equate to about 4 Stubbs scoops when swelled up- its too much, as people have repeatedly said on this thread.

 

[SpeedyPony]

If you're otherwise happy with their feed I'd be inclined to split up up into more feeds throughout the day, but there are also cheapish higher calorie feeds available- something like micronised linseed-Digestible energy 22MJ/kg or barley rings-DE 13.4MJ/kg (assuming they tolerate cereals and don't turn into dragons ). Grass nuts are around 10MJ/kg and speedi beet is about 11MJ/kg, so even with a bag of linseed costing between £25-30 it might work out around the same cost to swap the grass nuts for linseed and feed less volume?
Can you tell I was doing costings/research for mine not so long ago? I ended up going for soothe and gain as after speaking to Allen and page it worked out cost effective when I factored in convenience and I have been using their veteran vitality for a while now. However, I used to feed linseed and found mine got on well with that- had to swap to a mash as he has developed diastemas and can't have chaff anymore, I tried sugar beet as a base for the linseed but can't do with the faff/organisation of soaking (and I'm too tight to buy speedi beet!)
The above is all feeding the old boy, the youngsters just get a handfull of chaff and ad lib forage.

 

[Flowerofthefen]

If you're otherwise happy with their feed I'd be inclined to split up up into more feeds throughout the day, but there are also cheapish higher calorie feeds available- something like micronised linseed-Digestible energy 22MJ/kg or barley rings-DE 13.4MJ/kg (assuming they tolerate cereals and don't turn into dragons ). Grass nuts are around 10MJ/kg and speedi beet is about 11MJ/kg, so even with a bag of linseed costing between £25-30 it might work out around the same cost to swap the grass nuts for linseed and feed less volume?
Can you tell I was doing costings/research for mine not so long ago? I ended up going for soothe and gain as after speaking to Allen and page it worked out cost effective when I factored in convenience and I have been using their veteran vitality for a while now. However, I used to feed linseed and found mine got on well with that- had to swap to a mash as he has developed diastemas and can't have chaff anymore, I tried sugar beet as a base for the linseed but can't do with the faff/organisation of soaking (and I'm too tight to buy speedi beet!)
The above is all feeding the old boy, the youngsters just get a handfull of chaff and ad lib forage.

Thank you. I used to feed linseed so that's something I may look into again.

 

[DabDab]

????? 1 scoop of beet and 1 1/2 of grass nuts would equate to around a stubbs scoop, so not lot at all. Especially since asking feed companies about their feed and a bag would last me 3 days for 1 horse!!

Are you talking dry volume there or wet?

I was just saying that if you are talking dry volume then that is quite a lot once soaked, and most horses, even greedy poor doers, would struggle to get through it all in one sitting, which is when the chucking it over the floor behaviour tends to start.

I would also personally be mithering over the quality of my grass and hay if I was having to give that much hard feed to otherwise healthy horses (I assume you are feeding twice a day) just to keep condition on them

 

[Flowerofthefen]

Are you talking dry volume there or wet?

I was just saying that if you are talking dry volume then that is quite a lot once soaked, and most horses, even greedy poor doers, would struggle to get through it all in one sitting, which is when the chucking it over the floor behaviour tends to start.

I would also personally be mithering over the quality of my grass and hay if I was having to give that much hard feed to otherwise healthy horses (I assume you are feeding twice a day) just to keep condition on them

Unfortunately we have very little grass. They have ad lib good hay. I will try cutting the feed down.

 

[SpeedyPony]

I would also personally be mithering over the quality of my grass and hay if I was having to give that much hard feed to otherwise healthy horses (I assume you are feeding twice a day) just to keep condition on them

In fairness to the OP, age and workload can take quite a toll on their condition- if the horses are being worked hard and/or getting on a bit even excellent quality ad lib forage won't be keeping weight on them.
If I had the youngster out hunting every week rather than on her holidays I'd be expecting to give her a concentrates twice a day, although not as much as the old boy as she's (ideally) got a more efficient digestion.

 

[Squeak]

Thank you. I used to feed linseed so that's something I may look into again.

I feed micronised linseed with the grass nuts and speedibeet and find it works well You could also try the oily herbs. I went through the stress of desperately trying to keep weight on my tb a couple of years ago and ended up with massive feeds that were costing me a fortune and the horse still looked light. Looking back I do think the size of the feeds were counter productive and just ended up costing me money. Last winter and so far this winter he's been doing really well on what equates to a stubbs scoop sized feed three times a day.

It could also be worth trying something for his stomach to try and make sure he's getting the nutrients out of the food that he needs too. Also I find if he's too hot or cold then he also drops weight.

 

[Flowerofthefen]

I feed micronised linseed with the grass nuts and speedibeet and find it works well You could also try the oily herbs. I went through the stress of desperately trying to keep weight on my tb a couple of years ago and ended up with massive feeds that were costing me a fortune and the horse still looked light. Looking back I do think the size of the feeds were counter productive and just ended up costing me money. Last winter and so far this winter he's been doing really well on what equates to a stubbs scoop sized feed three times a day.

It could also be worth trying something for his stomach to try and make sure he's getting the nutrients out of the food that he needs too. Also I find if he's too hot or cold then he also drops weight.

I'm reluctant to change feeds as they really do look good at the minute. I will try and cut down a bit but it's so hard to build up again if they do drop!! Linseed might be a good option, thank you.

 

[Squeak]

I'm reluctant to change feeds as they really do look good at the minute. I will try and cut down a bit but it's so hard to build up again if they do drop!! Linseed might be a good option, thank you.

I feed the same as you do - grass nuts, speedibeet and some grass chop so wasn't trying to suggest you change I tried loads of different feeds when he wasn't looking great and none of them worked as well as keeping it simple. I figured if he looked good in summer on just grass then that was what I'd do in winter too!

I also feed a balancer with it and in the winter I add oily herbs and micronised linseed if he needs more weight. If they're looking well you might find that you can drop quantities and they'll just up the amount of hay they're eating and so you might not need to add anything to negate the dropping of quantities. Theoretically they should be more efficient at the amount they're able to get out of the feed too.

 

[Flowerofthefen]

I feed the same as you do - grass nuts, speedibeet and some grass chop so wasn't trying to suggest you change I tried loads of different feeds when he wasn't looking great and none of them worked as well as keeping it simple. I figured if he looked good in summer on just grass then that was what I'd do in winter too!

I also feed a balancer with it and in the winter I add oily herbs and micronised linseed if he needs more weight. If they're looking well you might find that you can drop quantities and they'll just up the amount of hay they're eating and so you might not need to add anything to negate the dropping of quantities. Theoretically they should be more efficient at the amount they're able to get out of the feed too.

Which balancer do you use?

 

[SEL]

I used copra for one of mine when he struggled with weight over winter - instead of beet. His last winter with me though I found it was easier to add a scoop of veteran mix which was more calories in less volume.

 

[tda]

If they are chucking it about they are either not hungry or don't like something. Do you mix both products together? If so maybe separate buckets,, see which they prefer

 

[DabDab]

In fairness to the OP, age and workload can take quite a toll on their condition- if the horses are being worked hard and/or getting on a bit even excellent quality ad lib forage won't be keeping weight on them.
If I had the youngster out hunting every week rather than on her holidays I'd be expecting to give her a concentrates twice a day, although not as much as the old boy as she's (ideally) got a more efficient digestion.

I don't think I was being 'unfair' to the OP, just replying to her posts. Yes of course old, sick/compromised and hard working horses need more food. Not sure anyone has said otherwise or that the op has mentioned any of these factors with hers.

My big horse who I lost earlier this year was a bit of a poor doer and also had some other stuff going on that contributed to him not holding his weight at times, as well as being in a couple of hours work per day. I went through a phase of feeding him fairly large bucket feeds when I was struggling to keep the weight on him, but it didn't work particularly well (partly because he didn't often eat it all). I ended up switching his forage to haylage for a bit and then eventually went back to hay but a different supplier, and the weight went back on him and stayed on even with much much less hard feed (by volume). It's amazing how much hay can vary in terms of how much they are able to get out of it, particularly when the grass available is also lacking in anything of value.

 

[expanding_horizon]

I feed in a gorilla tub trug wedged in a tyre or in a parrallex slow feeder to limit wastage, on a rubber stable mat to lessen wastage. I’ve got a messy horse.

 

[nikkimariet]

But with the water is the volume going into their stomachs (& straight out again)

Otherwise you feed the same dry volume and split into 2 or 3 feeds.

Although really struggling to see the benefit feeding beet and grass nuts with oil and salt.

I think you need to review what you need from a feed and feed accordingly. Perhaps try some of the brand feed advisors or an independent one.

You're currently feeding two similar mj/kg soaked feeds for no apparent reason and there are no vit/mins.

Thought the same thing. There’s little benefit to feeding both of these to the same horse.

 

[santas_spotty_pony]

It sounds like a lot but they are both fibre based feeds so I would say your horses are getting enough elsewhere (probably with their hay) I’d try cutting down a bit and see. If they are looking well on what they are on, I wouldn’t change necessarily. What are their work levels?

 

[Chianti]

They don't get much at all dry weight. I use a sugar beet scoop and they get 1 scoop beet, 1 1/2 scoops of grass nuts. So not a lot at all. It's when the water is added!!

They don't get much at all dry weight. I use a sugar beet scoop and they get 1 scoop beet, 1 1/2 scoops of grass nuts. So not a lot at all. It's when the water is added!!

That sounds like a lot to me. Are you feeding to maintain weight/ put on weight or just to put supplements in. My good doer pony has about 10 grass nuts and the same of Speedibeet well soaked just for something tasty to put his multiple supplements in. He licks the bowl clean and then goes back to his hay.

 

[Flowerofthefen]

Had an email back from a feed company today advising that a stubbs scoop holds 1.7 kg of their feed. They advised I give my horse 4 kg a day. It's a soaked feed. This is actually more than I'm currently feeding!!

 

[ihatework]

What is the age, size, breed and workload of these horses?

What body condition score would you put them and do you have any pictures?

Problem is people all have different perceptions so it’s impossible to comment definitively without more context

 

[ponynutz]

I've always measured how much speedibeet they get in wet weight. So they'd get a scoop of wet beet (which is about a handful dry...)

 

[dorsetladette]

If your otherwise happy with your feeding routine maybe try nosebags?

Mine did well with a handful of linseed lozenges added to their feed. A 20kg bag is about £25 and you only need 70g per feed. Might be a cost effective way to reduce volume without compromising on calories.