stubborn, lazy lunger who hates nearly everything!

querida93

querida93

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My boy has quite a bit of time off during the year (which he is more than happy about!) with me away at uni so when it comes to holidays and parts of the year where I have a much lower work load he is brought back in very slowly & we do a bit of slow, easy going work.

However, I've always brought him back into work with walking on the lunge for a couple of weeks seeing as he hates the hacking by us (will get to this prob later!!) but lately, probably because he knows that's all he's doing he has point blank refused to move. He stands there calm as anything almost grinning at me whilst he refuses to take one step forward till the gate opens. Ive tried getting someone new to give it a go & he did the exact same thing. He knows we're not going to hurt him & knows theres not much we can do so doesn't move. I can sit on him & he's good as gold again, but i've always thought walking on the lunge was a better way to bring him back into work that straight off riding so any tips would be great!!

Secondly, although he much prefers hacking to schooling he has a huge phobia of pigs on the only bridle by us. The pigs are on one side & a huge ditch on the other. This is the only time I ever don't feel totally safe on or leading him as he will spin, buck, rear & walk backwards to this ditch (obviously even less safe for him) and has even got me off & bolted across a road back home before. I doubt this will get solved at least until I move yards next year as its been four years & he wont even leave the yard gates now but if anyone has had a similar prob may be some help out there or some tips of other activities I can do when he can't be jumped to keep him happy & not bored by schooling!

He is my baby and I'd never use force or want him to feel worried of me or less secure in himself as I do love that he is a bit spoilt so if anyone has any tips using natural techniques (not increased/harsher aids) or encouragement (he is v. belly orientated except on the bridle) I'd be very grateful - sorry for the essay!!
 
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This makes me cross! He is taking the mickey in a big way, and unless you step up to the plate and say "Hey buddy - this is what I expect from you - now get on with it", he is going to be another casualty of the fluffy bunny revolution.

Being firm and insisting on good manners/doing what hes told will not make him insecure or fearful of you. If anything, it will make him more confident, as he will have a leader to look to for guidance.

You are spoiling this horse - allowing him to make decisions that you should be making. I'd be utterly appalled if a horse of mine said No like that (I refer to the refusal to leave the yard as well as the lunging) - and would make damn sure that he did both when I asked. My horses are managed quietly but firmly - they get a well-timed kick or a smack if the situation calls for it, and none of them are remotely upset by either.

You owe it to your horse to mould him into a good citizen, and allowing him to do as he damn well pleases isn't the way. A spoilt horse that thinks its the boss is potentially a dangerous one, and he's demonstrating the potential he has to be a dangerous horse by his behaviour near the pigs. I have one who is terrified of pigs, but he will stand and shake, rather than throw a hissy fit. I can feel his heart pounding under my leg, and I know he wants to turn and flee, but he doesn't, because he is a safe, well trained, mannerly horse.
 
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I feel for you with the pigs. I have owned one truly pig phobic horse and nothing would make him get over it. I even stabled him at a livery yard with pigs and he just lost weight, lost his hair and went bonkers. Can you move a lot sooner?

As for brining a horse back to work, hack walking is the best thing you can do. Lunging puts quite a lot of strain on the muscles, tendons, etc. because of the small circles and really you shouldn't do too much of that. I only do 20 minutes lunging sessions ever (with fit horses), once or twice a week. Once you have another hacking route, assuming he is well otherwise and has had turnout, I would do a couple of weeks of walk hacking ridden and then start with some trot hacking ridden for another couple of weeks. I would introduce canter and a bit of schooling at the end of that period building gradually all the time.

If he is napping on the lunge try flicking a long rope in his direction and if he still ignores you try a lunging whip. One well timed smack will save him developping a napping habit.
 
As someone once said to me - my horse costs me a lot of money and time and for 23 hours of the day can do pretty much what it likes so for 1 hour a day it should do what I want it to do. Your horse sounds as though it is taking the mickey. He needs to learn to respect you.
 
The leaving the yard is a terror thing I don't put that down to naughtiness first and foremost he sweats up, shows whites of eyes, shaking & sounds like hes having an asthma attack. I mean I know the difference between this & the naughtiness or him being a bit nappy at the woods, and for that he knows he doesn't get away with it & does as he is told, with this I was hoping for any ideas on calming him down, persuading him its not so bad as even with another horse he wont walk past the pigs.
Yes he is spoilt, he's a family pet more than anything, after having a bit of a rough start as all our others are. I have no aversion to giving him a good kick when hes being a git being ridden and we do a lot of ground work & in general his manners are very good, he'll stand there all day, never nips, picks up all his feet & even stands there with his mouth open for the bit when he sees his bridle. I've made him sound like a devil & in all honestly most of the time he is a sweetheart.
However, he is being a little terror with the lunging & so by posting I was hoping for some ideas how to get him to do it, we do do groundwork as mentioned in this post & he is willing however this aspect he's having a strop on. So if you have any ideas/experienced this I'd love to here them though!
 
querida93 said:
However, he is being a little terror with the lunging & so by posting I was hoping for some ideas how to get him to do it, we do do groundwork as mentioned in this post & he is willing however this aspect he's having a strop on. So if you have any ideas/experienced this I'd love to here them though!
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A swift flick of the lunge whip at his stubborn little bottom would probably do the trick!
 
querida93 said:
The leaving the yard is a terror thing I don't put that down to naughtiness first and foremost he sweats up, shows whites of eyes, shaking & sounds like hes having an asthma attack. I mean I know the difference between this & the naughtiness or him being a bit nappy at the woods, and for that he knows he doesn't get away with it & does as he is told, with this I was hoping for any ideas on calming him down, persuading him its not so bad as even with another horse he wont walk past the pigs.
Yes he is spoilt, he's a family pet more than anything, after having a bit of a rough start as all our others are. I have no aversion to giving him a good kick when hes being a git being ridden and we do a lot of ground work & in general his manners are very good, he'll stand there all day, never nips, picks up all his feet & even stands there with his mouth open for the bit when he sees his bridle. I've made him sound like a devil & in all honestly most of the time he is a sweetheart.
However, he is being a little terror with the lunging & so by posting I was hoping for some ideas how to get him to do it, we do do groundwork as mentioned in this post & he is willing however this aspect he's having a strop on. So if you have any ideas/experienced this I'd love to here them though!
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I the leaving the yard is a terror thing as you describe then you owe it to your horse and yourself to get some professional help in and help him work through it, then you can get out and about. fitness work on an school surface is a waste of time in my opinion it does very little to strengthen and harden up the tendons and ligaments-you really need to be doing road work.

on the one hand you are spoiling him on the other you are creating a brain dead horse by asking it to walk in endless cicles-he must be bored witless as must you, I could not imagine anything worse than walk work on the lunge
 
Auslander said:
This makes me cross! He is taking the mickey in a big way, and unless you step up to the plate and say "Hey buddy - this is what I expect from you - now get on with it", he is going to be another casualty of the fluffy bunny revolution.

Being firm and insisting on good manners/doing what hes told will not make him insecure or fearful of you. If anything, it will make him more confident, as he will have a leader to look to for guidance.

You are spoiling this horse - allowing him to make decisions that you should be making. I'd be utterly appalled if a horse of mine said No like that (I refer to the refusal to leave the yard as well as the lunging) - and would make damn sure that he did both when I asked. My horses are managed quietly but firmly - they get a well-timed kick or a smack if the situation calls for it, and none of them are remotely upset by either.

You owe it to your horse to mould him into a good citizen, and allowing him to do as he damn well pleases isn't the way. A spoilt horse that thinks its the boss is potentially a dangerous one, and he's demonstrating the potential he has to be a dangerous horse by his behaviour near the pigs. I have one who is terrified of pigs, but he will stand and shake, rather than throw a hissy fit. I can feel his heart pounding under my leg, and I know he wants to turn and flee, but he doesn't, because he is a safe, well trained, mannerly horse.
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This ^^

Asking him to behave isn't bullying....no one is saying that you have to beat him but they're big strong animals and the more they take the mick and get their own way the more dangerous they'll become.
 
querida93 said:
He stands there calm as anything almost grinning at me whilst he refuses to take one step forward till the gate opens. Ive tried getting someone new to give it a go & he did the exact same thing. He knows we're not going to hurt him & knows theres not much we can do so doesn't move.
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What aids are you using, to ask him to walk on? Are you carrying a lunge whip, and do you know how to crack one right behind his backside?
 
Booboos thank you! this is what I was hoping for!! I can't really move any sooner as the lady who owns this yard is extremely helpul in checking on him & the others & rug changes while I am away at uni so I'd be silly to have to start paying for that before I finish!
There's only road work that doesn't require this bridle which he is very good on so do you think that would maybe be a better option? I'd knew lunging was hard on them but never realised what I was doing may be damaging him! (attempted walking 3 x a week on large circle for 15 mins)
That's he issue with the lunge I do use a whip, and ive resorted to tapping him with it a couple of times now (even throwing a little bit of menage rubber at his bum!) and he just gives me this look like "I don't care" and I'm worried hitting him harder will hurt! He doesn't even nap he walks out like hes going to do it, and im singing his praises.. then he just stops! I know I'm a bit of a soft touch but I've never had to deal with such a calm, stubborn "no" before & I though i'd not let him get away with it by sitting on him & making him walk a few circles that way but he was powering round like that was what he wanted!!
I hope this makes sense, and can I just say you're animals in the bar below are all stunning!! and thank you really :)
 
no that is what ive tried!! Please don't get me wrong I have hit him with it, even tried throwing meange rubber at him he just grits his teeth & takes it but wont walk forward - the lady who owns the yard had a coat & she hit him harder than I did & even she gave up! I'm really not refusing to give him a tap when hes being naughty I just never want to go too far/bully him!
 
I agree with auslander, he is taking the p*** big time, I accept he is genuinely scared of the pigs and you may never get him to happily walk past that point but the fact that he refuses to move on the lunge, unless he chooses to, shows he is in charge, by being serious about the lunging and making him more obedient will help you overcome other issues as he will respect your leadership. A well timed slap with the lunge whip will not make him fearful and is natural in the sense that if he was in a herd and the leader wants him to move they will insist using whatever methods are required to make him yield, more than likely a sharp bite on the backside, I have never known a horse get upset if the timing and reasoning is correct.

Re the lunging in general I think 2 weeks is totally unnecessary, hacking would be ideal but unless he has an issue that prevents you getting straight back on I don't think he requires so long wandering round before you get on and make him work, obviously take it slowly to build up his fitness.
 
if i walk him to the road he will do road work more than happily as long as we go straight onto road & im not pointing him to bridle path to the left. Circles is not all I do with him, over summer he loads perfectly & can do woods, jumping & shows. its just what I'd been told with bringing them back into work to do first... I am sure its because hes bored of that but I didn't know it was safe on his legs to do road work without first building him up in this way to begin?
We are moving him in June - once uni's finally done!! with near hacking (with no pigs!) but obviously if he shifts this phobia onto something that cannot be avoided I will look into professional help!
 
oh okay well thank you everyone for the point that maybe the lunging advice I'd been given wasn't quite as sound as I thought, I will definately take that on board. Maybe if I come back to it after some ridden work he'll listen more to smack rather than just baring it!
As there is no off road hacking except past the pigs, am I best to do walk work in the school first to prevent injury for a while or is road work in boots fine to start off with?
Thank you :)
 
Roadwork is the best way to build up his strength, a true level surface that will condition the legs better than anything else, when bringing an injured horse back to work nothing is better than hours of walking on the roads.
 
lots of people only have roadwork for hacking, I would certainly think that would be the better option than walk lungeing - if you can get him out of the yard gates, will he follow/hack with another? If not would be getting some proper help after that length of time? Has he not hacked for the four years then?
 
querida93 said:
oh okay well thank you everyone for the point that maybe the lunging advice I'd been given wasn't quite as sound as I thought, I will definately take that on board. Maybe if I come back to it after some ridden work he'll listen more to smack rather than just baring it!
As there is no off road hacking except past the pigs, am I best to do walk work in the school first to prevent injury for a while or is road work in boots fine to start off with?
Thank you :)
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Road work is actually better than off-roading it. It hardens the legs better, and its a consistent, firm surface - most horses rehabbing from soft tissue injury are confined to straight line work on the road before they are allowed in the school/on softer ground.
 
haha well we do lots of groundwork and have a "play" first and after the first week we do bursts of trot (this is from when he was actually lunging) then once hes being ridden its fine him doing faster paces! Do you maybe have any tips of other things we can do to keep it more interesting? Once more fit hell happily follow me over poles etc & we do lots of sending away & coming back & hell spin in a circle all of which he seems to enjoys as its just lots of praise - just not the then walking! Thank you! x
 
I'm going to get really told off for this! but he will leave the gates if I get off & walk him almost against the wall on the opposite site to the bridlepath and then he gets the hint we're going the other way & onto roads rather than the bridle and once I'm on he's good as gold! So we have hacked on the road just not for a while as I always worried about his legs if he wasn't fit but from the sounds of things I had that very wrong!! I only held that idea because my oldie did her tendon & back in & back lady told us to avoid them as the tapping on the hard surface could hurt her but that could have been down to the back muscles not the tendon?
Thank you everyone!
 
Like everyone else has suggested I would go straight out on the roads. With a paddock fit horse (i.e. one that has not been unwell and box rested for any reason) I would start with 1hour walk hacks as frequently as possible and build up from there. Road work will put much less strain on his legs that lunge work, especially if the school gets a tad deep.

If walking out of the yard is the only way you can get out safely do that. My opinion is that pig phobia is a much greater problem for horses that have it than anything else but my view is coloured by my horse who went bonkers on the pig farm. There were things he was scared of and things he napped at and then there were the pigs which seemed to be a non-negotiable problem. I have since have other horse be weary of pigs and get over it with training but none reacted like he did.

As for the lunging I think he needs one "I mean it" wallop to get him over the napping (wear a hat and be careful he doesn't buck and get you), and then forget about lunging for a while.
 
querida93 said:
He is my baby and I'd never use force
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Herein lies your problem.

He'd flipping well lunge for me!

I don't take any crap from my horses and because of this they are well behaved and mannerly. However, they also like and respect me as they know exactly where the boundaries are and where they stand - which is crucial with animals (and children!).
 
Booboos said:
My opinion is that pig phobia is a much greater problem for horses that have it than anything else but my view is coloured by my horse who went bonkers on the pig farm. There were things he was scared of and things he napped at and then there were the pigs which seemed to be a non-negotiable problem. I have since have other horse be weary of pigs and get over it with training but none reacted like he did.

As for the lunging I think he needs one "I mean it" wallop to get him over the napping (wear a hat and be careful he doesn't buck and get you), and then forget about lunging for a while.
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okay thats fine he has 24/7 access to turnout from his stable so never been box rested so I'll give that a go! It may be once he works out that we're going on the road I think he will stop panicking at our gates as he just associates it with going to see the pigs! And exactly I mean he isn't scared of anything further than a look but with these its like I have a different horse I mean I was stunned first time he did it, I dont think we're getting over it any time soon!
Okay Ill give lunging one more go after a couple of road hacks & see if I can get through to him, I imagine he is just bored in all honesty as he used to lunge fine I just didn't like that he was winning so easy & didn't know I had an equally safe alternative!
Thank you you really have been very helpful! x
 
I should have probably clarified I'd never use excessive to hurt him/scare him/ bully him. I have used a lunge whip last few occasions & hes just gritted his teeth & looked at me.
I am a soft touch, all our rescues are spoilt I admit that and wont change but this is the first time I've had a flat out no on something I can't see a reason for & so did want some ideas to change that because even for me that's one too far!
 
querida93 said:
I should have probably clarified I'd never use excessive to hurt him/scare him/ bully him. I have used a lunge whip last few occasions & hes just gritted his teeth & looked at me.
I am a soft touch, all our rescues are spoilt I admit that and wont change but this is the first time I've had a flat out no on something I can't see a reason for & so did want some ideas to change that because even for me that's one too far!
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The last horse I saw behave this way had EPSM.

Does he ever look as if his muscles hurt? Are his feet sore on big stones? Does he ever have strange panic attacks?

EMS/IR Can do it too. Same questions as above, plus does he eat as if he's always starving? Is he overweight, and be honest !?!
 
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