Stud questions - help please!

[juliehannah58]

OK just posted this in the vets section by accident - Oops! But I need your help!

My mare is going to a local stud (luckily for me they are one of the best in the country) in Feb / March time next year to be inseminated with semen from the stallion of my choice (not resident at this particular stud, they are just getting her in foal for me). Their keep fees seem really expensive to me but as I have very limited experience of it all I wanted to ask you knowledgeable lot!

Its £12.50 for grass keep but as it will be so early and my mare is a spoilt wimp she will need a stable so it will be £16.50 a day. Is this normal?

Also, I know it's probably impossible to answer, but how long roughly should I expect her to have to stay for? I am trying to work out how much it's likey to cost me and it's terrifying!

My vets have offered me a package which would allow me to keep her at home (ideal) BUT although I'm sure they'll do an excellent job I really want her in the hands of professionals. Has anyone kept there mare at home to be AI'ed??

Any info or advice appreciated!

 

[squid35]

I would say this is about right!

I worked on a stud for a while and your not far out on the price you have been given!

Hope you get a lovely baby!

 

[juliehannah58]

Ah thats OK then. How long do mares usually stay at stud for? I know it varies greatly but whats the average time I can expect?

 

[squid35]

depending on if she is in season when she goes in and if they want to swab her (unless you have had this done already).

we used to cover then and then they stayed with us untill they were scanned in foal. cant quiet remember how long this takes but i think it was done after they failed to come in season when being tried.

hope that helps!

 

[tigers_eye]

It depends if you can get her there at the right point in her cycle so they can inseminate straight away. They will want to scan her though at 16 days and 30 days. Surely if they are quite local you would be better off travelling her to and forth. Mine was at stud for the best part of 3 months as she didn't take first time.... but she was 5 counties away so the diesel would have been significant! In Belgium (where the last one my family bred was conceived) all vets seem much more au-fait with AI and everything was done at home, scanning, insemination etc. Very stress-free. Aren't you worried sending her to stud so early? That's much too early for a foal to be born IMHO.

 

[miamibear]

I think my YO paid £15 a day grass livery not 100% on that but the figure rings a bell!!

So i think thats around normal!

 

[Faithkat]

£12-50 per day or per week? £12-50 a day is a bit steep. I paid £5 a day/£35 a week grass livery at the stud earlier this year (and I think that's bit steep, to be honest). She got kicked on the fetlock which swelled up so they kept her in for three nights at £12 a night (bargain)

 

[juliehannah58]

Well one of my closest friends is a very experienced breeder and has her own stud farm in Essex and years ago used to run the biggest stud in Newmarket, she was the person who told me to do it in March time, as she is recovering from an injury (hence foal) and I have the facilities to do it. As I gather it's very common for racing studs to have foals right from 1st Jan onwards. i was slightly concerned I admit, but I've been advised by someone much more experienced than myself!

I am willing to travel her up there, but in order to get it right she might need to be scanned 2 or 3 times a day and it's an hour journey and I work full time! I just don't want to be responsible for it going wrong, I would much rather hand her over and let them do what they do best, even if it means paying through the nose!

Oh and she is being swabbed and EVA'ed before she goes to stud. I have also been advised to get a map drawn up of her reproductive organs but no-one else has mentioned this?

As I said before, it's all new to me and I'm just trying to do my best for mare and (Hopefully) foal.

 

[juliehannah58]

It's definitely per day! I know I thought it was steep, as the stud where the stallion is kept only charges £4 a day at grass! Unfortunately he's in Yorkshire and we're in Sussex! Hmm, I'm going to either have to save very hard or wrack my brains even harder! I was considering leaving it later so she could go out to grass but if it only saves £4 a day, it's not the huge saving i was hoping for!

 

[AmyMay]

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Aren't you worried sending her to stud so early?

[/ QUOTE ]

Good point. Do you really want a February Foal. Amy's is due in May - which I'm delighted about. I was pressured in to starting her in March and am very relieved that she didn't conceive until June. I really didn't want an early foal, but got a bit sucked in to what everyone around me was telling me to do.

 

[juliehannah58]

I would prefer it in a slightly warmer time I must admit, I'd be worried about the foalie getting cold (but I am a bit of a wimp with my horses). But like I say, this is what I've been advised to do, I don't feel I am experienced enough to go against professional advice. I was hoping to start in march time.

 

[AmyMay]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't feel I am experienced enough to go against professional advice. I was hoping to start in march time

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Well this is how I felt - but remember, this is your project. Will you be able to bring mare and foal in during the day when the weather is crap and wet in Feb and March - is your job that flexible?

Whilst I really appreciated all the expert advice I received, and am still receiving - you like me are an intelligent human bean who can make up their own minds about things - so just bear that in mind, and don't get pressured to do things that you are not entirely happy about.

 

[juliehannah58]

Food for thought! I would ideally like the foal born in April /May time.

Hmm.... I'll have a think! Thanks for everyone's advice

 

[S_N]

Ermmmm that is VERY expensive for non-TB's!! BUT, in your area, everything is more expensive........

With regards to how long she will be there; may I ask why you are sending her so early? Do you really want a Jan/Feb foal? Having worked with and foaled plenty at that time of year, I would never breed my own to be that early! Also if you are going to send her that early, you will probably need to use light therapy to help induce her seasons - she won't start to naturally cycle until daylight hours increase. Also as she is a maiden (at least I think she is?), she may not hold if put to, by AI that early on - I read some stat about that recently, but I can't for the life of me think where

If she doesn't hold, then your costs will be vastly increased, as she will either need to stay longer, or return to the stud. If you allow yourself time to familiarise yourself with her cycles and send her about 3 days before she is due in, she should then be AI'd pretty soon after arrival - this will cut your costs immeadiately. How far away from you is the stud? It takes 42 days post conception (and the sperm can live inside the mare for 24 hrs before conception takes place) for the endometrial cups to form and the foetus becomes firmly implanted in the womb lining - therefore travelling after this date is advised. HOWEVER, some people will bring mares (even maidens) home after 18 or so days. If the stud is close to you, would they consider a walk in mare to AI? Which is where you wait for her to come into season and take her there to be AI'd and then bring her home again? Or you could leave her there for a few days........

I hope all of this makes sense, I feel like I rambled a bit.....

 

[AmyMay]

As an addendum to SN's post - my mare was under lights from 18th December until she went to stud in April. I absolutely knew how she was cycling - to the day in fact - which was of enormous help to the stud obviously. However, when she went to stud she shut down. So even though she came in to season, there were no obvious signs.

She was delivered on a Thursday - due to come in to season on the Monday - ovulating by the Friday - luckily covered the day before - and bang pregnant!!!

 

[juliehannah58]

Hi SN, see posts above, I have been advised to do it March time! Although I would be happier with the foal being born April / May time. I'll give it some thought!

She has had two foals before, both natural coverings and took first time both times. Natural isn't really an option for me as the stally is in Yorkshire!

 

[Maesfen]

[ QUOTE ]
like me are an intelligent human bean

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, PMSL!

Are you really a bean A_M/!! The mind boggles!

ON the subject however, can't beat what SN has said. From a personal point of view I would rather foals were born late April owing to the weather but believe it can get a bit warmer down there earlier than this.
As A_M asked, can you guarrantee that you can be there for the first month at least, ready to bring them in at a moment's notice if they are born earlier than that?
Also, keep charges seem very dear to me. For grass it's usually arounf a fiver, upto £10 if stabled. I would want a personal groom for what they have quoted you! Don't forget to add vet charges on top and travelling and the cost of AI itself. To me, AI seems much dearer than natural service but helps if you can keep mare at home or at least nearer than going to the other end of the country.
Who are you using?

 

[Tia]

That was always the price for studs around the area where I lived in the UK. I know it seems expensive but it is normal pricing.

 

[no_no_nanette]

I'd support amymay in suggesting that you think about putting her in foal a little later - our maiden mare went to Brendons (Pyecombe, Sussex) to be AI'd, and they say that as long as the mare hasn't just finished her season they can give her a prostaglandin injection her to bring her back into season, so speeding up the process. She didn't take the first time around, but they scanned her very early and were able to pick this up and bring her back into season - 2nd time around, success!! The foal is due at the beginning of May.

Costs of keep sound about right, although from memory I think Brendons were lower.

Could you check with some other experienced breeders? (there are lots on HHO) ... most (apart from TB breeders) would advise foaling later in the spring when its warmer, I'm sure. That way you give the foal the best possible start. Good luck with it all! (And which stallion are you using?)

 

[juliehannah58]

Stud or Stallion??

Stallion is Rebelara, stud is Hobgoblins.

My vets have just recruited an AI specialist (their words!) and are offering me a package, am I better off using them and keeping her at home or taking her to stud?

I must admit I was a little shocked at the keep prices, at this moment in time it looks like the keep will be the single most expensive part of the process!!

I'm favouring April time at the moment then, although I am a bit worried about going against peoples advice, but I know I would prefer it. Plus, it would give me more time to save up for those keep fees!

 

[AmyMay]

[ QUOTE ]
Sorry, PMSL! Are you really a bean A_M/!!

[/ QUOTE ]
We're all beans!! It's much nicer that being a Being!

 

[AmyMay]

[ QUOTE ]
My vets have just recruited an AI specialist

[/ QUOTE ]
How experienced is said specialist?????????

I doubled my costs by AI'ing at home - failing and then sending to stud. However, as I said before, most of the broodmares at my place are AI'd at home successfully. So I'm not sure that there is an appropriate answer to your question.

Although of course - when she is at stud you don't have to take time off to be there with the vet to AI - the stud will be able to scan daily to check for follicle size etc. Will your vet be able to do that - and will you be able to manage work???

My vet ran round like a blue arsed fly for me - Sundays - 11pm at night after he returned from a weeks holiday - he couldn't have done more.

I do think that being at stud makes life a lot easier.

Rambling on now...................................

 

[juliehannah58]

Thats really interesting I looked at Brendon Stud but they didn't have any prices, I'll give them a call.

My friend told me not to inject them into season as she has never found it successful first time round

I think I have decided to leave it a bit later now, it's so difficult when you don't know a lot about it as everyone gives different advice!

Stallion is Rebelara, pure bred ID international Grade A showjumping stallion! He is just perfect for my mare and it means I will have a 7/8 ID and hopefully a jumper, which would be lovely

I'm very excited!

 

[MillionDollar]

I paid £5 per day + VAT per horse which included ad lib haylage and grooms fees. The AI was included in the stud fee, this was at Goshka Sport Horses.

I had 2 mares there for 3 months!!! It should have been around £1,100 in livery

but they were so nice (coz i didn't have a good time- 1 mare reabsorbed, then didnt take and then finally got in-foal, 1 mare did not get in-foal at all, and 1 mare got in-faol 1st time only for it to be twins so one was pinched out) they only charged £580 for the livery. They were so nice.

 

[juliehannah58]

I know, part of me would love to hand her over to the experts and just say 'please get her in foal for me' and leave them to it, but if shes there for 8 weeks thats £1000! Which is soooo much more than I was expecting.

It's such a hard decision as I want whats best for her but I'm not made of money! In my current job running around etc wouldn't be a problem at all as I'm only 5mins from work and it's a family business. She used to be such a tizzy mare and now shes finally happy and chilled out I'd hate to send her away and she'll come back a mess again........Argh!! All this is too much for my little pea brain!

 

[AmyMay]

Keep her at home then. If you are confident that your vets can do the job properly. You can be there when needed as you have the flexibility work wise - and you will save a fortune.

Get her under lights come 18th December (optimum date). 12 hours minimum daylight needed - and start keeping a diary of seasons.

Get her scanned early March to see what's going on inside - and go from there.

Exciting stuff!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[juliehannah58]

I need to find a nice friendly stud like that!!

 

[Tia]

Yes that is what I would do. If you have your own place then it seems fruitless to be paying keep charges like this. AI isn't really that difficult and any decent vet worth his salt should be successful. Over here......loads of people do it themselves!!

 

[S_N]

[ QUOTE ]
I need to find a nice friendly stud like that!!

[/ QUOTE ]

Will pm you! I think I know somewhere not too far away from you.......

 

[juliehannah58]

[ QUOTE ]
Over here......loads of people do it themselves!!

[/ QUOTE ]

Blimey!!

I think this is what I would feel happiest doing, I have my own place so it's very peaceful for a little stress head like her! Well if it goes to plan I could save loads of money and hassle for my mare, if it goes wrong I'll just have to remortgage my house and get my skates on to that stud!! LOL!

It's very exciting AmyMay, I will be looking forward to reading all your reports come next year to prepare myself!! I was soooooo upset when she was injured, but now it seems like a little light at the end of the tunnel