Christmascinnamoncookie
Fais pas chier!
Interesting, saw this on Facebook. 
Studies re neutering/not neutering
- Thread starter Christmascinnamoncookie
- Start date
stangs
Well-Known Member
Must have a read later. It would be interesting to know whether the age at which the dog is neutered influences the increased risk of canter too.
dreamcometrue
Well-Known Member
Well my neutered Springer Emma didn’t get cancer and died of heart failure and stroke at 14. My non neutered Springer Zoe died of mammary cancer and heart failure at 14. I know it’s statistically insignificant but you do what you think is best for your dog at the time. They were both happy and healthy and lived long lives.
JBM
Well-Known Member
I’ve heard now of people getting vasectomies for their dogs now instead
Not sure how long it’s been a rhing
Not sure how long it’s been a rhing
Redders
Well-Known Member
There is a free access study on ages of neutering. https://www.frontiersin.org/article...ted guideline for males,beyond 2 years of age.
It’s worth noting that one of the absolute main reasons to neuter female dogs is the risk of Pyometra. I know that some will say ‘my dog made it to 14 and never had it’ etc but I had three of them last night on my shift; it’s really is common, they can be very sick and it really can be fatal - I see that semi regularly too. I (and my current colleagues) don’t blanket recommend castrating all male dogs, and in many cases actively advise against it
It’s worth noting that one of the absolute main reasons to neuter female dogs is the risk of Pyometra. I know that some will say ‘my dog made it to 14 and never had it’ etc but I had three of them last night on my shift; it’s really is common, they can be very sick and it really can be fatal - I see that semi regularly too. I (and my current colleagues) don’t blanket recommend castrating all male dogs, and in many cases actively advise against it
paddy555
Well-Known Member
If I ever had another bitch then Pyo is the reason I would neuter. My male isn't neutered and I cannot see the point in doing so.
Very interesting to hear the comments of a vet.
misst
Well-Known Member
My bitch is spayed - I was worried about pyo but also if I am honest I found my other bitch was unhappy after her seasons and after a couple of phantom pregnancies I had her spayed. I have no intention of breeding from my present bitch so spayed at 2. My boy was neutered at 1.5 years old. He was quite reactive (still is) and I was advised that it would be better for him if he was neutered. TBH I don't think it made any difference. My previous bitch lived to nearly 14 and died from dementia and heart failure. As someone else has said you do what you think is best for you and your dogs at the time. My vets still recommend it if people ask but don't push if they aren't asked.
Parrotperson
Well-Known Member
Very interested to ask why you actively advise against make castration as I’m in the middle of trying to decide whether to or not. Thanks .
CorvusCorax
'It's only a laugh, no harm done'
I would always have an older female (7/8) neutered because of pyo risk. Don't neuter males unless for a health reason.
Boulty
Well-Known Member
Would say with anything like this check that the journal it is being published in has a good reputation & that it has been peer reviewed. If it’s in a slightly random, low circulation journal when it could technically be submitted to a more prestigious/ well known one I’d want to question why and if it’s not been peer reviewed then that would ring alarm bells / suggest that any research contained within may not be of a high standard / may be biased in some way if the authors have chosen to submit somewhere it would not be subjected to peer review.
That said from personal experience neutering does massively reduce mammary cancer risk (& of course eliminates pyometra & unwanted pregnancy risk). Will admit I see way more dogs die due to pyo complications than mammary cancer complications though and pyometra risk is the biggest thing I’d worry about in an entire female. (Other than accidental mating)
As for male dogs… it’s currently generally agreed to leave their bits alone unless there’s a medical or behavioural reason not to.
That said from personal experience neutering does massively reduce mammary cancer risk (& of course eliminates pyometra & unwanted pregnancy risk). Will admit I see way more dogs die due to pyo complications than mammary cancer complications though and pyometra risk is the biggest thing I’d worry about in an entire female. (Other than accidental mating)
As for male dogs… it’s currently generally agreed to leave their bits alone unless there’s a medical or behavioural reason not to.
Redders
Well-Known Member
Behavioural reasons mostly. A huge amount of dogs I see are nervous in some way, and research has shown that testosterone gives them the confidence to cope with life, as it were. If you remove that testosterone, you can end up making the nervousness worse. I recommend chemical castration as a trial in these dogs. If they aren’t causing bother, and owner is sensible about bitches in heat etc then owners choice but I certainly don’t blanket ‘get them off’
I wouldn’t wait until a bitch is older to spay either (unless a giant breed and waiting 2yrs). The surgery is much more straightforward in a younger dog than an older one, recovery better tolerated, and I had a case a couple weeks ago with a 2.5 year old dog septic with a Pyometra, current run of nightshifts a 4 year old, 7 year old and 8 year old, so it does happen in younger/not so old ones too.
Parrotperson
Well-Known Member
Thanks redders. I’ve had him chemically castrated which he’s at the end of now. It has made a bit of a difference (he’s a bit calmer and more easily trained he was never aggressive) but not much and he’s never been a bother with bitches doesn’t seem to notice them when in heat! So I’ll just leave them alone I think. He will be pleased!
Agree re older females. We took on a 6 year old Irish wolfhound who had not been spayed. Bless her she arrived with kennel cough and once over that immediately had pyo. The vet had conniptions because of her age and size but thank god she was ok. If would never leave a bitch unspayed after that experience
Clodagh
Well-Known Member
Sorry JBM as you’ve already liked this but to avert another lengthy neuter or not thread I’ve deleted it!
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Shady
Well-Known Member
After the last 3 weeks experiencing Molly Weims first season at almost two and a half years old, I am definitely getting her speyed the moment the weather cools down.
It was blimmin awful and the house looked like somebody had been murdered in it.
The highlight was my male Weim Odes , who , despite being castrated, managed to successfully mount her just as the OH and I had sat down to lunch with an old friend and his young daughter.
We had to discreetly go sit in the hallway with them for 15mins until they disengaged. Friends carried on eating....
Never again !
It was blimmin awful and the house looked like somebody had been murdered in it.
The highlight was my male Weim Odes , who , despite being castrated, managed to successfully mount her just as the OH and I had sat down to lunch with an old friend and his young daughter.
We had to discreetly go sit in the hallway with them for 15mins until they disengaged. Friends carried on eating....
Never again !
KEK
Well-Known Member
Agree. My bitches get speyed after 1 season unless they are being bred from. I don’t see any reason to leave them entire (not high risk cancer breeds though). Ideally I’d leave the boys entire- I hardly ever have them though and our current foster fail was horrendous with humping (and following through..) so his went. I think castration is more for behavioural reasons than anything health.
A lot of vets recc waiting till 18m at least for large breed boys.
Jenko109
Well-Known Member
What I find frustrating, is that so many rescues will refuse to allow you a dog, if you already have an intact male.
It doesnt matter to them that the dog that they are giving to you is neutered.
I find it so very bizarre.
It doesnt matter to them that the dog that they are giving to you is neutered.
I find it so very bizarre.
druid
Well-Known Member
I neuter my breeding bitches after their last litter due to risk of pyo, males only if their behaviour calls for it (sex pests)
BallyRoanBaubles
Buys real biscuits
I have just (literally today) had my male chemically castrated, he is almost 3 1/2. I’ve been thinking about it for ages as he is nervy, but sometimes I’m not sure if he’s nervy as thinking he needs to be billy big bo****s, we will see but I’m glad chemical is an option
Chucho
Well-Known Member
Super interesting discussion again on this - thank you. We're in the middle of trying to decide whether to spay after one season, or wait until she's at least 2, so had after at least one if not two more seasons. She's had a difficult first season followed by a very long pseudo pregnancy (including pyo scare) that is still ongoing. She's just 13 months at the moment, 26 kg (can't pinch an inch) with some filling out still to do. So we don't want to do it too early, ideally not before her growth plates are likely to have closed. I'm not sure we really want to put her through another extreme pseudo pregnancy like this either. It's really hard to know what to do for the best.
Nasicus
Well-Known Member
Sounds like she'd be a good candidate to spay as soon as she's able to be, if she's having these issues already including a pyo scare.
Chucho
Well-Known Member
I think that is probably where we're going to land. We lost one earlier this year to post-surgery complications and so I think that is probably playing into all the dithering and inability to decide if I'm really honest with myself.
Nasicus
Well-Known Member
Totally understandable!