sub-loaning horses

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chokablok

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I'm not in a position to own a horse at the moment as I'm at Uni full time. I was thinking of loaning a horse next year but the only way that I would be able to do this is if I shared it out 3-4 days a week due to time constraints.

If you are someone that has/is looking to loan a horse out would you be agreeable of the basic premise of loaning your horse to someone that will part loan it to someone else, presuming that this 3rd person was vetted by you as well?
 
Hi. I've never heard of this before and if I was loaning out, tbh I would be iffy about a 3rd person being involved.
As you don't have time for a horse, why don't you part loan yourself? If you did take a full loan, what would you do if your sharer let you down or you couldn't find one
 
I think there is a need to differentiate between a "sharing" arrangement and a "loan" arrangement here.

I have loaned a horse out in the past and its important from the outset for both the Owner and the Loaner to understand exactly what the terms of the "loan" and/or "share" agreement are.

The way I see it, a "loan" is to a single person, who takes sole responsibility for that horse, basically "in loco" or in place of the owner, and the Loaner then takes on ALL responsibility for that horse, ranging from feeding, shoeing, day-to-day management, vets bills, the lot.

A "share" on the other hand, is where one or more people together take on responsibility: and the allocation of yard duties, various fees like livery etc., have to be fairly divided between the Sharers.

To me, I wouldn't be happy to loan my horse to someone and then they "part-loan" it to someone else: however, I might in certain circumstances consider a "share" arrangement, provided that ALL the sharers were nominated on the agreement beforehand, and that I had thoroughly approved of each named individual before the "share" period commenced.

Have a look on the BHS website: they give some good examples of a loan contract. If you PM me, I can dig out the one that I used for my boy when he went on loan, but that was to an individual rather than two "sharers".
 
No I wouldn't. I would want my horse to go to someone who could afford it if they couldn't find a sharer at some point. Sorry, but you are not ready for a horse if you need to share it out. You may as well just share someone else's for now, save yourself a lot of expense and responsibility.
 
Thanks for input

MrsC - all good thinking points. Have had a dew bad experiences with sharing other peoples horses in the past which is why I would prefer to loan and then share out so I would have more control over the agreement. I would preferably be on assisted DIY anyway so not huge deal if sharer couldn't make it.

JodsR2BlinkinTight - sorry should have been clearer - idea was to full loan a horse with me on contract as full loaner covering all fees and taking over all care but then sub-loaning horse to a sharer so myself and sharer would be caring for horse. So contract between myself and loaner for full loan and contract between me and sharer to share horse. Thanks for input though :)

Holly08 - sorry you seem to have misread my OP. I stated that I wanted to share due to time constraints didn't mention not being able to afford it without a sharer.
 
Its the same though - what if you couldn't find a sharer...you can't manage on your own. You can't guarantee you will always have a sharer. (and its Honey not Holly, but you could have come up with a Xmas name for me!)
 
I wouldn't be happy with this.

The person who needs to have some element of control, is the owner and having the loaner sub contract to sharers who tend to come and disappear after a relatively short time, would leave the owner unsure of who was actually caring for the horse.

I guess there are some people who wouldn't mind as long as someone else was paying the bills, but many wouldn't.

If control is important to you, buying a horse would be the better option, otherwise you could continue sharing.
 
I wouldn't consider this, primarily because I would want anyone taking on a horse of mine to have the funds to care for it without a sharer.
 
Ditto other replies.

Think the terminology needs clarifying: I might be OK with loaning a horse to someone who then "shares" the horse with another person, but I would deffo NOT loan the horse to anyone who then "sub-loans" it to someone else!!! No way.

The only thing I'd consider is "loaning" the horse to two responsible named people who I had approved beforehand and could satisfy all requirements. We could then agree on definitions, i.e. whether they'd be "sharers" or "part-loaners".

But to lend the horse to someone who'd then lend it on to another person......... nope! No way.
 
If I put my horse on loan and found out they were then loaning it out I would flip my lid and be there with a lorry to pick up the horse the same day I found out.
No exeption or excuse, I'd be amazed if you found someone happy with that arrangement, and it sounds like you were planning on not telling the owner? Which would end I imagine in them on their way with a trailer/lorry pretty quickly!
 
If it is time not money that is the issue why not buy or full loan and keep the horse on full or part livery so you don't need to worry about covering days you can't make it.
 
KristmasKat said:
If it is time not money that is the issue why not buy or full loan and keep the horse on full or part livery so you don't need to worry about covering days you can't make it.
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i agree with Kat, if funds arent the issue and it is meerly time constraints, i would buy/full loan and have the horse on part of full Livery, im on part livery and am only required to go 2x per weekend day if i cant then there is cover! of course i go up alot more than this but if i find myself in a muddle i know the horse is happy and all her needs are met
 
My horse is full loan. And I have had a sharer for him. Owner knows and is fine with it.

I had someone, not because I can't afford it, but to help me balance horse/work/home life. It's impossible for me to be able to ride everyday without upsetting the balance somewhere. So I had someone to ride him twice a week. I didn't take any money. The time I gained was much more valuable to me.

Sharer had to move on as she got a new job. But now a friend rides him once or twice per week. Again, I'm not taking any money.

I don't think there's anything wrong with getting a sharer for a horse you have on full loan. But I think you need to allow yourself at least 6 months before even considering getting a sharer so you can bond and get to know it first.

However, if you know you won't be able to afford to keep a horse without a contribution/help from somebody else, then I think you're barking up the wrong tree. Stick to sharing yourself.
 
Sorry but I think you're seeing the world through rose tinted glasses if you think a good sharer will be easy to come by. The simple fact is they aren't. There are those who turn up with no hats, ring up asking about a small horse but are far too heavy. The ones who come just for a free ride. The flakey ones who start to share then ****** off. The ones who want to dictate...

I could go on. A good sharer as like hens teeth.

I think you'd be better finding a good part loan, it's a hell of a lot cheaper. No you won't be able to call the shots, but that's an added bonus you get with having sole responsibility for one you've bought. If you're a decent enough rider, and trust worthy you'll find that a lot of owners are more relaxed, also remember trust comes with time.

Personally I'd be fuming if someone loaned a horse of mine with the intent on getting a sharer, just because they wanted full control. If you don't have the means to look after it yourself, then you should wait until you do.
 
There's no way I'd ever allow it. A part loan would be fine, but someone else being in charge of vetting potential riders/carers for MY horse? Absolutely not.
 
My old loaner asked if she could find a sharer for my horse. In theory I wouldn't have objected as long as I got to vet them, meet them and see them ride as I normally would when choosing a loaner / sharer. It depends on the horse - this was a safe good horse who would be fine with any reasonably competent rider - and she was at vet school so probably had a pool of decent sharers to choose from as well as professional support as she was keeping him on campus. It didn't happen in the end for other reasons, but I would have allowed it with some strict rules.
 
It would be different (for me) if an established loaner asked if they could get a sharer to help and allowed me to meet them first etc, and also if two people came forward together about loaning the horse between them (so established friends that were already agreed on how things would work and could tell me how things would work..). In the OP's scenario its the uncertainty that would put me off, I have had endless trouble trying to find good sharers for my horse over the last couple of years..
 
Maybe if the loan was from me to two people who I was comfortable could and would manage but to be honest it would make me wonder whether you really could provide what my horse needs. I think you'd be a lot better off looking to share a horse until you have more stability time-wise.
 
EmmyMD said:
If I put my horse on loan and found out they were then loaning it out I would flip my lid and be there with a lorry to pick up the horse the same day I found out.
No exeption or excuse, I'd be amazed if you found someone happy with that arrangement, and it sounds like you were planning on not telling the owner? Which would end I imagine in them on their way with a trailer/lorry pretty quickly!
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I'm suprised you got from the OP that it sounds like I was not intending to tell the owner as I recall putting that I would make sure that owner was happy with sharer (as well as me) so would be upfront from the start about my intentions re:sharing.
 
Thanks - an interesting range of answers. From what I can tell some would allow it or at least consider it with appropriate regulations however some have made clear that they wouldn't like loaner to get a sharer.

Thanks for input.
 
chokablok said:
As said in OP would first make sure loaner was happy with sharer.
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Yeah, but to me that simply doesn't matter, it would be me choosing, me trialling any potential loaner. It would be my decision to even consider an additional loaner. I personally would not be happy with someone coming up to me asking if they could full loan, then sub loan, and that they would choose a loaner but I would have final say on whether the loaner could ride my horse. If I wanted two riders to ride my horse, I'd advertise for that. Furthermore, if someone approached me wanting to ride a horse of mine but in essence only to ride it a few days a week, that's fine, but they do so from my current yard on a part loan basis, they don't get to take on a full loan, move the horse and then have someone else help. If you want to ride a few days a week, find a part loan, that is what a part loan is there for.
 
I also think that in essence, those on here that are saying they would consider it, would only consider it if they knew the main loaner, trusted them and their ability to choose a loaner. As such, you would only get this kind of attitude from someone who already knew you, not as some stranger just starting to loan their horse. There are all sorts out there and you may get lucky although I personally doubt it and for the life of me can't work out why you don't part loan.
 
Prancer & Vixen said:
I also think that in essence, those on here that are saying they would consider it, would only consider it if they knew the main loaner, trusted them and their ability to choose a loaner. As such, you would only get this kind of attitude from someone who already knew you, not as some stranger just starting to loan their horse. There are all sorts out there and you may get lucky although I personally doubt it and for the life of me can't work out why you don't part loan.
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Thanks for input. I have reasons for not wanting to part loan but do not feel that all of these are relevant to be discussed in answering the somewhat hypothetical question of whether people would consider loaning their horse out to someone that would then share it.

Asked this to see what peoples feelings would be and have established that you would not consider it. Thanks for replying.
 
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