Fools Motto
Well-Known Member
Springer Spaniel bitch - is this normal? Recently started, about a week after regular house accidents have stopped.
Pup is 4 months old.
Pup is 4 months old.
Submissive peeing!??
- Thread starter Fools Motto
- Start date
chillipup
Well-Known Member
Why would you think it's "submissive" peeing?? Does she pee when you tell her off? are you raising your voice to her? are you smacking her? What submissive gestures is she displaying when she pees?
Exploding Chestnuts
Well-Known Member
Tend to agree, sounds as though she is frightened.
Sandstone1
Well-Known Member
It does sound like she's frightend of you.
Fools Motto
Well-Known Member
She mainly does it when you ask her to get to bed, or get out of bed to go out, on the back door step. She does it to both me and OH, my mum, my dad (when he visits) and both their dogs. She doesn't do it with my son (he's 9) - the only person she doesn't 'react' to!
Apparently it is very common in spaniels... they dribble lots. It's sort of excitment, but we're really not exciting her, we just want her to go in and out when asked, not round in circles wetting herself!!
(she just sort of goes low at the back end, tail wagging but down, legs wide)
Apparently it is very common in spaniels... they dribble lots. It's sort of excitment, but we're really not exciting her, we just want her to go in and out when asked, not round in circles wetting herself!!
(she just sort of goes low at the back end, tail wagging but down, legs wide)
Last edited:
Sandstone1
Well-Known Member
I'd get her checked by a vet. Given the problems you have had with house training it's possible she has a bladder problem.
I'm afraid that it's really not normal and could well be that she is frightened.
Some young bitches do it but they should very quickly grow out of it. Keep voices calm and low and try to have none threatening body language.
The fact that she doesn't do it for your son probably means that he's not threatening to her.
I feel sorry for this pup to be honest.
You need a vet check and help from a trainer who uses positive training methods. I think you have been given this advise before though.
I'm afraid that it's really not normal and could well be that she is frightened.
Some young bitches do it but they should very quickly grow out of it. Keep voices calm and low and try to have none threatening body language.
The fact that she doesn't do it for your son probably means that he's not threatening to her.
I feel sorry for this pup to be honest.
You need a vet check and help from a trainer who uses positive training methods. I think you have been given this advise before though.
SpringArising
Well-Known Member
That sounds very, very much like anxiety. People often think that a waggy tail means excitement but a lot of the time it means they're not sure about something/someone. I'd completely ignore her if I were you - if you want her outside I'd quietly slip a lead on, walk out then leave her there for a little while. It sounds like she WANTS to really please you but isn't sure how - hence being worried.
teacups
Well-Known Member
Agree with springarising, and have known working cocker spaniels who do this.
Dry Rot
Well-Known Member
Quite normal in submissive breeds. The origin of the word "spaniel" has been debated but at one time they were indistinguishable to setters. It has been said, the name comes from the word 'epaniere', French I think for 'to flatten'. I am no linguist! The bigger dogs were bred and trained to hunt for game that hides in low ground cover and remains motionless to escape detection. The dog would go motionless (or set or point) when it detected game scent, and two men would drag a net over the dog and the birds, capturing the whole covey. So a dog that would flatten would be preferred. Some spaniels will even point today and it is not difficult to teach. Another way for one man to capture birds was to set up a net (like a tennis net) and gently drive the birds towards it, flushing them at the critical moment. Of course, game was a lot tamer in those days. Hence "setters". The smaller dogs were used to flush game from thick cover (Cockers?) and often worked in a pack.
Going down flat, even rolling over to expose the belly, emitting a few drops of urine, are all body language in dogs for expressing subjection and that tendency was selected for to get better "flatteners"! The dogs were also used in falconry to "spring" game, so Springer spaniels. And so on.
Don't worry about it. Your dog will grow out of it. You can hasten that by reassuring the dog when it does right rather than admonishing it when it does wrong. Spaniels ought to be trained to Sit when they are pups and while this tendency to show subjection to go down is strong. It becomes extremely difficult to teach them this as they get older. The Sit in these dogs is used to stop them -- a sitting dog isn't going anywhere!
Going down flat, even rolling over to expose the belly, emitting a few drops of urine, are all body language in dogs for expressing subjection and that tendency was selected for to get better "flatteners"! The dogs were also used in falconry to "spring" game, so Springer spaniels. And so on.
Don't worry about it. Your dog will grow out of it. You can hasten that by reassuring the dog when it does right rather than admonishing it when it does wrong. Spaniels ought to be trained to Sit when they are pups and while this tendency to show subjection to go down is strong. It becomes extremely difficult to teach them this as they get older. The Sit in these dogs is used to stop them -- a sitting dog isn't going anywhere!
wkiwi
Well-Known Member
Yes; very common with many breeds. You must not try to reassure her or tell her off, don't make eye contact, and don't make an issue of it. Do as SpringArising says (you can lead the leave on - supervised - if the action of putting on a lead triggers the behaviour too) and if this doesn't work then get a behaviourist to help as something might be wrong with your body language. After she has done what you want, then a bit of praise (but not OTT) but regard it all as 'business as usual' i.e. act as if she is already trained.
Sandstone1
Well-Known Member
Read the ops previous posts re house training. Smacking is mentioned more than once. Yes it's submissive behaviour but it's not really normal in a happy healthy dog.
Bellasophia
Well-Known Member
Dry rot...great info.. I found this too.. It backs up your theory.
Although popular wisdom attributes the source of the spaniel as the nation of Spain, British canine historian Colonel David Hancock traced the word “spaniel” to the French verb espanir, “to crouch or flatten,” and even further back to the Latin explanere and the Italian spianare, also “to flatten or flatten out.” He also found the old Italian verb spaniare, meaning “to get out of a trap or net.” Hancock believed that the dogs originated with the Romans and were called spaniels to describe a hunting style of crouching and springing to flush game into hunters nets or for the falcons or sighthounds to take.
Fools motto....did you look to see if she has a recessed vulva?you didn't address my last post to you so I leave it at this .
Although popular wisdom attributes the source of the spaniel as the nation of Spain, British canine historian Colonel David Hancock traced the word “spaniel” to the French verb espanir, “to crouch or flatten,” and even further back to the Latin explanere and the Italian spianare, also “to flatten or flatten out.” He also found the old Italian verb spaniare, meaning “to get out of a trap or net.” Hancock believed that the dogs originated with the Romans and were called spaniels to describe a hunting style of crouching and springing to flush game into hunters nets or for the falcons or sighthounds to take.
Fools motto....did you look to see if she has a recessed vulva?you didn't address my last post to you so I leave it at this .
Dry Rot
Well-Known Member
Re: House training, I think the clue is in the fact that we humans generally lock the door when we go to the toilet! In other words, we like to know we are safe from interuption and disturbance. My youngsters are quickly shown that peeing/defecating in the house is NOT a safe thing to do and if they want to be undisturbed, going outside is the answer. The "disturbance" does not mean harsh treatment any more than someone walking in because I have forgotten to bolt the door causes me anything other than embarassment!
CAYLA
Well-Known Member
It is indeed very common in this breed and I reiterate this to anyone who takes a spaniel from our rescues, esp the bitches (and when puppies) I will advise best I can on how not to encourage the trait., as suggested, when giving a command try and look past her and not at her, if you want her to go outside, go to the door open it and call her try not to look down on her or physically place her out as contact makes the issue a whole lot worse, also if for instance she does it when you arrive home or someone arrives at the house, immediately turn away, she will then move swiftly to follow you and in turn it will stop the action/ her from squirting lol. its about re focusing her current reactions (as often happens) once they roll over, clicker training can be good for this as if you teach her the noise association with a reward you can actually use the noise to switch her focus and have her approach in a totally different manner, i.e an interested and inquisitive way in the hopes a treat is about to come, this completely changes her approach toward you and vice versa. Imagine you come home or you give her a command "out" and use the clicker, she will come forth ears pricked and focused on the treat she is about to receive in a more confident manner as opposed to simply responding to your voice/body language and hitting the deck and wizzing
Suzie86
Well-Known Member
Quick reply as on phone but just wanted to reassure you OP that both our springer bitches were a bit dribbly! And both have almost completely grown out of it (one is 3, the other not much older than yours).
it usually happened when people came round or we took them somewhere and people greeted them a bit too excitedly. We just asked everyone to ignore them until they were completely settled, and that pretty much stopped it.
I'm sure it's something she will grow out of so wouldn't worry too much at this stage.
it usually happened when people came round or we took them somewhere and people greeted them a bit too excitedly. We just asked everyone to ignore them until they were completely settled, and that pretty much stopped it.
I'm sure it's something she will grow out of so wouldn't worry too much at this stage.
Crugeran Celt
Well-Known Member
My springer is 6 and she will still wee and become very submissive when my husband comes into the house. He has never smacked or raised his voice at her. My MIL springer was exactly the same with him unti she passed at the age of 14. I don't know why he has this affect on her she has never done it with me or our son. He has tried making a fuss of her as soon as he comes in but this made her worse so now he completely ignores her until she walks over to him then she gets a very calm pat but he doesn't speak to her at all because as soon as he does she will wee.