Substitute for a Waterford dutch gag

[CloverRover]

My instructor and I have been trying bits for my pony. Shes a 14h 7 year old cob that likes to pull herself around on the forehand, lock in her neck and jaw, and throw her shoulders out every which way. She also has arthritis in both hind hocks and had damaged her suspensory. For this reason we can’t do too much lateral work or too many halt-trot, back up-trot transitions and we also can’t have her dragging herself around for fear we’re going to end up back in the vets (we are still mid rehab). We ended in a Waterford dutch gag and shes finally light and responsive to all my aids BUT I feel like I’m torturing the poor horse. I can feel her mouth open and she doesn’t feel accepting more fearful of the bit. But she was uphill and ‘relaxed’ for once. Plus from riding her for three years I am quite prone to hang on until she drops and then relaxing my hands too late and I feel this isn’t the bit for me to be relearning what to do with my hands in. So if anyone has any slightly milder and preferably dressage legal-er suggestions that would be very helpful.
I was thinking of trying the fager version of a waterford now that they are on sale but I don’t know if she would plow through it like she did with the waterford on the snaffle rein or not (we are on first ring below the snaffle ring)? Plus i would just have to move her to a dressage legal bit anyway but maybe it would work while she builds muscles?
Thank you for any advice!

 

[ihatework]

A simple answer to the question you asked would be I’d try a couple of different Pelhams, with 2 reins.

What you didn’t ask …. What vet treatment and rehab has been done. This sort of bearing down, disengaging, locking, falling out is often pain related.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

You could try a NS Universal. My massive Draft mare responded well to one, ridden with 2 reins. Until then she had attendance to lean/run through the bit on the forehand.

 

[jules9203]

If you have been through the vet, physio, dentist, saddler etc and now feel it is the bit that is wrong then find a bit/bridle fitter. They should have a variety of bits you can try and possibly a better fitting bridle. Better than buying a bit and finding it doesn't work 2 weeks later. Also you can buy from a bit bank with a 30 day trial

 

[Kaylum]

Are you putting a curb strap on the bit? Otherwise they are pretty useless.

 

[Jojo2go]

My instructor and I have been trying bits for my pony. Shes a 14h 7 year old cob that likes to pull herself around on the forehand, lock in her neck and jaw, and throw her shoulders out every which way. She also has arthritis in both hind hocks and had damaged her suspensory. For this reason we can’t do too much lateral work or too many halt-trot, back up-trot transitions and we also can’t have her dragging herself around for fear we’re going to end up back in the vets (we are still mid rehab). We ended in a Waterford dutch gag and shes finally light and responsive to all my aids BUT I feel like I’m torturing the poor horse. I can feel her mouth open and she doesn’t feel accepting more fearful of the bit. But she was uphill and ‘relaxed’ for once. Plus from riding her for three years I am quite prone to hang on until she drops and then relaxing my hands too late and I feel this isn’t the bit for me to be relearning what to do with my hands in. So if anyone has any slightly milder and preferably dressage legal-er suggestions that would be very helpful.
I was thinking of trying the fager version of a waterford now that they are on sale but I don’t know if she would plow through it like she did with the waterford on the snaffle rein or not (we are on first ring below the snaffle ring)? Plus i would just have to move her to a dressage legal bit anyway but maybe it would work while she builds muscles?
Thank you for any advice!

With her soundness issues, I'm not surprised she's showing the issues she is. Putting a stronger bit on her isn't going to make things better for her. Maybe wait until you see how she does when she's healed up more?

 

[CloverRover]

We are back to the vet in a few weeks and I was thinking of having them do some more searching… I used to ride in a mullen mouth “happy mouth” snaffle and she went okay just stiffly. Physio said she’s fine and everyone thinks she looks much better but I agree that something is off. She must be in a lot of pain to require that strong of a bit to go correctly whether that be something we haven’t found or lack of muscle. Thank you all for supporting what was lurking in the back of my head!

 

[CloverRover]

With her soundness issues, I'm not surprised she's showing the issues she is. Putting a stronger bit on her isn't going to make things better for her or have the hocks and suspensory been treated successfully

Her suspensory no longer shows irregularities and her hocks have been injected. Her movements are also much better (more welsh than riding school pony). But she doesn’t have muscle mass behind… yet i am not meant to do much pole work or too much lateral work so I’m not entirely sure how to get the muscle to rebuild correctly? The help i have been given is a bit I am not comfortable using.

 

[Jojo2go]

We are back to the vet in a few weeks and I was thinking of having them do some more searching… I used to ride in a mullen mouth “happy mouth” snaffle and she went okay just stiffly. Physio said she’s fine and everyone thinks she looks much better but I agree that something is off. She must be in a lot of pain to require that strong of a bit to go correctly whether that be something we haven’t found or lack of muscle. Thank you all for supporting what was lurking in the back of my head!

Suspensories take a long time to heal up properly. You can put a stronger bit on her but that isn't always the answer to what your horse is telling you. It's not always that the horse is in a lot of pain, just that they aren't right yet and don't feel well enough to do what you are asking comfortably. Or it could be the bit you are using isn't comfortable. My mare hated the bit that my previous gelding loved. She was much more comfortable in a bit that I would have found "too much bit". Sometimes we just need to try to figure out what they are trying to tell us. Unfortunately since they can't talk, it takes trial and error to figure it out.

 

[Jojo2go]

Her suspensory no longer shows irregularities and her hocks have been injected. Her movements are also much better (more welsh than riding school pony). But she doesn’t have muscle mass behind… yet i am not meant to do much pole work or too much lateral work so I’m not entirely sure how to get the muscle to rebuild correctly? The help i have been given is a bit I am not comfortable using.

The bit might be a bit like overkill. Did your instructor recommend this bit? After the time off she's had it is going to take time to get her softer and more relaxed move better again. Personally I'd stick with a basic snaffle of some sort, and put the slow work in.

 

[CloverRover]

The bit might be a bit like overkill. Did your instructor recommend this bit? After the time off she's had it is going to take time to get her softer and more relaxed move better again. Personally I'd stick with a basic snaffle of some sort, and put the slow work in.

Yes my instructor recommended it. We have done 6 weeks of hacking at walk and 6 weeks of adding trot back in out hacking (up to 15 minutes now) and school twice a week. We have had poles back in our lives for three weeks. She was never flexible and we have only been doing straight lines so yes i think i want my snaffle back… are there any snaffles that are better/worse for horses that lean? As in double jointed or mullen mouth? More/less tongue room? Loose ring or maybe a hanging cheek? It seems like minimizing poll pressure with a hanging cheek might allow her to lift but not force it?

 

[SpeedyPony]

Yes my instructor recommended it. We have done 6 weeks of hacking at walk and 6 weeks of adding trot back in out hacking (up to 15 minutes now) and school twice a week. We have had poles back in our lives for three weeks. She was never flexible and we have only been doing straight lines so yes i think i want my snaffle back… are there any snaffles that are better/worse for horses that lean? As in double jointed or mullen mouth? More/less tongue room? Loose ring or maybe a hanging cheek? It seems like minimizing poll pressure with a hanging cheek might allow her to lift but not force it?

A roller snaffle (cherry roller or copper roller) might help with the leaning/softness, but you can't really fix a downhill horse by pulling the head up, the lift has to come from behind.
As it sounds like she's lacking the muscle and strength to pick herself up properly, I'd be inclined to have a physio look at her (if you haven't already) as they might be able to suggest a plan to improve her strength and get her carrying herself properly without setting her rehab back.

 

[Capalldonn]

Plus from riding her for three years I am quite prone to hang on until she drops and then relaxing my hands too late and I feel this isn’t the bit for me to be relearning what to do with my hands in.

are there any snaffles that are better/worse for horses that lean?

In my book, the bit is not the main issue here. Leaning is never one sided. A horse can only lean on the bit, if the rider allows it. Unfortunately, hands tend to develop a life of their own. You may not even want to pull against your horse or fiddle with the reins, yet you find yourself doing it because hands quite often just do what they want.

To break this pattern, I suggest you try and hold the reins Littauer style (from the mouth over the index finger through the hand). Presumably, this will cause you some or even a lot of discomfort as you suddenly might feel like a beginner again. But this is exactly the sort of setback that helps to unlearn unwanted, automatic movement patterns and to develop a soft, giving and trustworthy hand. Always start with loose reins at the beginning and take them up carefully and slowly until you feel just a very light contact. Be prepared to always give the reins as soon as the contact gets heavier, a million times, if necessary.

When you're able to hold a light connection for a longer while you can return to the normal way. Start with just one hand, then switch hands, repeat several times, eventually both hands. Whenever you feel tension in your wrists, elbows or shoulders go back to Littauer style. Your horse will thank you.