Sudden Onset Laminitis is "non-typical" horse. Also in Tack Room

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SouthWestWhippet

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The horse:
Mare, 5years, approx 16hh, warmblood type (KPN x hanoverian x TB I think).

History:
Homebred, never lived anywhere else, on the same grazing she was reared on, out in a large herd (20odd horses). Grazing not particularly rich and further restricted during the day.

Recent History:
Was backed mid-June, going very well in walk and trot, seemed to really enjoy her work. At start of August, had two weeks off work for aggressive sacroid treatment (chemical cream). During this time she came in during the day to have two butes and out again at night with the herd. Hard feed at this time was h/f chaff, h/f nuts plus some sugarbeet water to disguise the bute taste.

Bute course finished about a week and a half ago. Since then she has been brought in a few times for pampering and regularly checked. Not hard fed though. Got the all clear to gently ride her again this week.

On Tuesday I lunged her (she was a bit wild though, lunging not a strength). we also went for a nice walk around just because I enjoy hanging out with her.

On Wednesday I rode her in the indoor for about 15 mins in walk and trot. She was very calm, a little tense to begin but nothing out of character especially as she is still in the early stages of backing and had had two weeks off.

Came up today to take her on a quiet hack with a 'babysitter' horse and out in the field she was down, when got up, she could barely walk -really, really lame to the point that we were thinking broken bones/spinal damage etc - horrific to see. Vet called out and it is laminitis!!!! He is at a loss as to what could have caused it as nothing has really changed in her diet or management and she really isn't the breed/build/type to be prone. He is being very neutral but I think he is worried.

Obviously we are treating it in accordance with his instructions but does anyone have any experience with anything like this?

This mare is very very special to me as she was a bit of a nutter before I backed her and we have a very close bond. any thoughts would be appreciated but please be gentle.
thanks
 
Laminitis is often a metabolic issue and so medications ie bute/wormers and possibly the sarcoid treatment could very well have compromised her and made her more vulnerable to the very potent grass we have atm due to the weather ie warm and wet.
 
I agree; Cushings, ems, epsm - I'd want to test for all of them iiwy, plus any others anyone can think of. Did the vet run bloods?

Are all four feet affected?
 
What made the vet say laminitis?

When you say she looked like she might have broken bones or spinal problem, that sounds very different to how I've seen laminitis. OK it doesn't always present as the rocked back stance, but when one of my mares had it acutely in all 4 feet she could barely move. It wasn't that she looked lame or pottery, she could just barely put one foot in front of the other to move at all. Pretty much rooted to the spot. In less acute stages, I'd expect the pottery action of a typical laminitic.

It just doesn't sound like your description - or is that just the way I'm interpreting it?

If there's any doubt about it being laminitis, do have a comprehensive blood test done including liver and muscle enzymes, and ask for a copy of the full report for your own records.

Was the "wild" do on the lunge typical of her, or something new? Could she have been objecting to work because of pain at that time? Anything else about how she seemed/looked when you were lungeing her?

Feeds: you mention "h/f" - what is that please?

What vit/mins or balancer are you giving her, and are you giving a full ration or only a part ration?

Sarah
 
sorry, h/f is handfull ie hardly any, just enough to get the bute into her.

The spinal thing was because she appeared rooted to the spot, with her back legs under her, they were shaking (probably from the strain of the position) - it looked nuerological. When forced to move, she staggered forward and nearly fell, keeping all her weight back on her bottom, sort of crouching. I can't describe it well, but 'potterey' doesn't even come close. Acute in all four feet is more like it. :( It was awful to watch, I didn't know whether to cry or be sick.

Being stupid on the lunge is not new. When I backed her, I ended up not lunging her much before I rode her and did most of it walking and trotting on the leadrein as she hated lunging. Very unofficial and not the way I would normally back a horse, but it really worked for her. Was hoping to go back to the lunging now she has a bit more 'discipline' from being ridden (backwards from what you would normally do!!!!)

She has no hard feed/vits/balancer - she is not actually mine, was hoping to buy her once the results of the sarcoid treatment because clearer but she is owned by the stables where I work. I am her main carer though, have done all the work with her and we have a very close connection.

thank you for your replies, will reread and digest later once daughter in bed.
x
 
could she have tied up?
Otherwise my very fit and lean wb got low grade laminitis from concussion. basically it was due to being exercised on hard ground and being on a field with rich but very short grass. he got over it in a week or two and has never suffered since
 
Hmmmm, I'm still wondering about the tying up, or a small scale tying up too.

The shaking could well be muscle fasciculations (which can arise from selenium or vitamin E deficiency amongst other things).

If she isn't getting any vits/mins, the chances are that her diet will probably be deficient in copper and zinc and maybe selenium as well (around 70% of the UK is believed to be deficient in the UK according to a survey done a few years ago).

It can be difficult to tell the difference between a muscular problem and a neurological one. Both could show up as ataxia (loss of balance/coordination).

If it was me, I'd probably at least test her main muscle enzyme in a blood sample (creatine kinase, known as CK), but I'd probably also opt for a comprehensive blood profile to see if anything else showed up.

I'd also have a forage analysis on her grass so you can see whether there are any deficiencies (selenium in grass/hay should be at least 0.1mg/kg DM; any less and it doesn't reach the minimum recommended amounts). Mine is only 0.04-0.05mg/kg, a level associated with nutritional muscle disease in a variety of species worldwide... and guess what, we've muscle problems too.

At the very least, I'd have her on a full daily ration of a good balancer that contains around 1mg of selenium (as selenium yeast) - like Dengie Alfa-A balancer or Blue Chip balancers. I wouldn't bother with any that only have inorganic selenium (sodium selenite) as ongoing bloods from my gang of 5 ponies with muscle problems suggest that the inorganic selenium did not help them at all, whereas the organic selenium seems to make a difference in about 4 months from first starting on it (measured by reduced levels of CK in the blood in all ponies).

Still not sure what it was that made the vet think laminitis rather than anything else - I guess it's always good to treat it as though it is laminitis, to avoid it worsening, but keep an open mind in case it's something else like this.

Sarah
 
Just thought.... what was she like turning sharply?

The one of mine with acute laminitis could barely move, let alone turn, but just appeared very awkward turning.

Whereas when one of my boys was suspected to be a wobbler (suspected neurological problem, but in hindsight I believe it was early manifestation of the muscle problem), he was so ataxic that he almost lost his balance and fell over on the turns, and you could nearly push him over sideways with just light finger pressure on his side. He also had absolutely no tail tone at that stage - you could lift his tail vertically and there was absolutely no resistance.

Sarah
 
OP- Hi, sorry your mare is going through all this. Yes I have been in a very similar situation with a non typical horse.
The first time 6 years ago. I had a TB 6 years old off the tracks early winter and I had him in light work over winter then in spring he suddenly became laminitic for no apparent reason as in he was still on the lighter side of normal and wasn't on great grazing, I was also feeding a high fibre diet.
He recovered but it took a while of box rest and padding on his feet to support them and enable him to stand comfortably. We didn't know the cause and the vet advised it could have been trauma or stress induced rather than over weight type lami. (which I know absolutely nothing about!)
So six years on he's been turned out every summer on good grass and never had any further issues at all until just now.
Again he's not fat or cresty or any other typical signs but became very sore on his feet and yesterday I was told he was on the verge of a full blown attack again- He's going to be on restricted grazing and come off the grass completely for part of the day.
I have no idea what caused it again but am so glad we caught it in time before he got really bad.
Sorry no real help to offer you, other than your not alone in this weirdness! - I have been recommended what is apparently a fab supplement which I ordered last night if that's of any use to you? Its by Progressive earth but not the hoof one!
Also ive been told long term to feed magnesium.
 
Sadly there is no such thing as not a typical type..There are two types of horses and ponies..Those who have had Laminitis and those who could get Laminitis..

Are there any fat pads above the eye or behind the shoulder?.Digital pulses?.Blood staining on the hooves or sole?..Shaking legs on a Laminitic can be caused my muscle fatigue whilst trying to hold itself in that position..We are coming up to the seasonal rise and peak in the grass now which will be full of sugar..

It is not nice to see and it is a horrible horrible thing..
 
Thank you everyone, to try to answer questions...

the digital pulse was present I think the shaking was muscle fatigue, she has no fat pads or anything, in fact is not an easy weight carrier, she lacks muscle tone atm as she has only been backed about 6 weeks.

In good news she is LOTS better today, and was a little better yesterday. The shaking has stopped, she is moving around willingly and is looking almost normal. She is also very frustrated at being in although she has developed a rather distasteful crush on her brother in the stable next door (yuk!)

The vet was confident it was lami, he is an excellent, specialized, equine vet and I do really trust his opinion. My wondering is that it might have been caused by stress as she has had a lot of changes in her life in the last 2 months, including being backed, coming in, going out, bute, hard feed, sarcoid treatement etc.

I am hoping the vet will come out again next week to see her, I will talk to him about blood tests and the possibility of vit/min deficiencies. If I do buy her, as I hope to do, I will be putting her on a feed balancer regardless.

will keep you all updated, thank you all for your thoughts and opinions
 
Hi there, I've just posted this on another thread but it might be worth considering Lyme's disease. I'm always more aware of it as my sister lives in Virginia and horses commonly can suffer from it as has her Connie mare who has had Lami before and has just tested positive for Lyme's for the second time after becoming footsore again. The symptoms include some of what you describe and it is becoming more common in this country - maybe worth mentioning to your vet.

http://www.thelaminitissite.org/l.html

Lyme disease (borreliosis)

Lyme disease is present in many regions of the UK, Europe and North America. It is caused by infection with a tick-borne spirochete bacterium, Borellia burgdorferi, and commonly carried by deer ticks (Ixodes sp.). Clinical signs in horses include:

mild fever - muscle soreness - lethargy - unexplained lameness that may move from leg to leg - stiffness - joint swelling - reluctance to work/poor performance - laminitis (may be severe) - weight loss - uveitis - depressed attitude - behavioural changes and irritability - neurological problems e.g. ataxia, hypersensitivity.

Horses with Lyme disease often show symptoms in the autumn. Consider Lyme for horses that are "just not right", with unexplained laminitis or lameness, attitude changes, considered to have an unexplained virus, with or without a temperature.
 
Thanks for this, I will mention it to the vet.

In good news, mare is much better today. We went for a little stroll in hand around the indoor sand school as she is soooooooo bored. She was a little footy on the way down to the school - however it is stoney and she is not shod yet so not surprising - but she was absolutely fine on the sand and I had my work cut out for me keeping her in walk!

So pleased with her progress, hoping vet will come out early next week and tell me the next steps.
 
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