suggestions for elimination diet?

Pix

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Warning, long essay ahead!

Looks like Loki might have developed a sensitivity and allergy to the food he's been on for the last 18 months+ :(

He started scratching at the beginning of winter, in a habitual enough way to be particularly noticeable. I use advocate so kept his treatments up to date and kept an eye out for fleas, bites etc., but nothing there. As it carried on I assumed he just had sensitive skin and was suffering a bit in the same way people can with being out in the cold and wet, then coming into a heated building (we don't control the heating here either, as it runs in from the main building, so even with all the rads switched off the pipes that run through the rooms are still hot enough to sting if you put your hand on them. End result being that we're either a bit too warm or frozen with all the windows open). So was extra careful to dry him off fully, put sudocreme or vaseline on his ear tips if we were heading out/when we got back, that kind of thing.

About a two months ago he started to get thinning hair and small bald patches on his ears. Again I assumed this was the cold/hot affecting but over the last couple of weeks they've gotten really bad. Big bald patches with thickened skin on the tips and small sores on the inside :( As the last staw over the last couple of days noticed there's a faint yeast-like whiff and that he's also now licking his feet quite a bit (looks like he's trying to eat them sometimes!).

I feel rubbish that it's taken all winter for it to click into place that he might have a food allergy, it seems like the obvious first thing to test for now. I can't believe I've just been piling on creams and the odd oil thinking it was just sensitive skin from the changes in temperature :(

I'm getting him booked in with the vets for a professional opinion, and hopefully have some skin tests done, but I'm struggling to think of anything else it could be. It's going to be a few days before he gets checked out and possibly longer before any test results, so I want to be prepared with some foods as I reckon it will be the elimination diet route to find out what the issue is/what he can tolerate.

So the point of the thread, sorry :eek: He's been on Arden Grange Large Breed, which is chicken and rice. I'm looking for foods that have a novel source of both protein and carb, but I'm coming undone with it a little. Does anybody have an idea of an affordable novel food (so for example, fish and potato, like fish for dogs) that isn't hideously expensive? He'll have to be on it for approx 3 months so will need over 15kg. Usually price wouldn't bother me, but there's a chance he'll have to try several different foods over the next year or so if we use elimination and challenge diets, and some of the foods I've looked at that don't use rice, for example, are 50-87 quid per bag :( I know that I'm probably asking the impossible, and will have to stick my fingers in my ears, close my eyes and hum loudly whilst ignoring the squeals of my credit card! But if anyone can throw out some foods I might have skipped over I'll be very grateful!

I'm not against raw, and long term it's likely to be what I go with. However for now, if he has a food allergy, I'd prefer to pin point the problem (with the annoying footnote that there could be several) and that means trialing him on specific sources, levels and breakdowns of proteins and carbs. It's easier to feed him the same quantity and mix of the above every day with a dried/wet food, than with a balanced raw diet.

Really sorry for the long, long post! :eek:
 

MurphysMinder

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I'm sure you have considered it, but you haven't had a new carpet, or cleaned carpets recently have you?
We picked up leaflets at Crufts for a fish and potato food that was cheaper than Fish4dogs, think it was around £35 for 15kg. http://www.challengedogfood.com
Pets at home to a fish and potato too I believe. Of course you could go down the raw route but that isn't for everyone, and doesn't suit every dog.
Hope the vet can give you some answers, unfortunately sensitivity and allergies can take a long time to sort out.
 

MollyMoomin

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Check your local pet shop to see if they do an own brand premium range.

We get ours from a national company and have it rebagged with our own branding, they supply to pet shops all over the country so your local one may have the same? It's a 12kg bag though, not 15kg and definitely not in the £50+ price bracket :)
 

galaxy

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Fishmongers. You can pick it up at petsathome for £25 a bag, has no grains at all. Just fish and potato
 

LBF

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I feel for you! I had exactly the same problem with my boy.
He kept getting weepy eyes and he scratched his ears to shreds! He also got itchy feet which he would kick out on the carpet or lick the fur off.
We had to keep going to the vet and the would give us eye drops and creams and it would just re-occur. He was also having 2 piritons a day (he is 6kg)
The last straw was at the vets, they thought he had mange! They took some skin with scalpel and he was so itchy he enjoyed them scraping it off :eek:

Anyway... have you got insurance? The best thing I did for Pepe was to get him allergy tested, you then have results for pollens/grasses, food and mites/fleas!
It came out that P was allergic to Chicken, Beef, Pork, dairy products, other foods and storage mites (no problem for us as he is fed raw)

The vets did mention an elimination diet, but the time that it takes and then you have them picking up things in the park or people slipping them treats without asking :mad:

Sorry for super long relpy, I hope this helps!!
Livie
 

Archiepoo

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my dog is exactly the same ,he gets bloated and itchy ,his elbows and knees break open and weep everywhere. its miserable for him. hes now on 5mg of prednisone everyday and we feed him gelert chicken or duck .its £3.50 for 3kg in tesco and its seems to suit him ok . we tried all the highly recomended allergy foods and they were much too rich for him or he was full of wind or starving all the time . hes good on real chicken and rice i make myself but its just too expensive to keep him on permanently. hes now growing hair on his bald patches and not bloated or itchy so good result for ozzy:)
 

satinbaze

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Personally I would go for raw then you have complete control over what is in the diet. My old fcr had bad colitis and raw was the only diet she could tolerate
 

CorvusCorax

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Go raw or second Fishmongers from Pets at Home.

Epi-otic from the vet is a nice mild ear wash.

I don't know if you have his pedigree to hand but if he has Yasko or Ursus (which a lot of GSDs have) are both implicated in throwing skin/ear conditions.
 

gunnergundog

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I'm not against raw, and long term it's likely to be what I go with. However for now, if he has a food allergy, I'd prefer to pin point the problem (with the annoying footnote that there could be several) and that means trialing him on specific sources, levels and breakdowns of proteins and carbs. It's easier to feed him the same quantity and mix of the above every day with a dried/wet food, than with a balanced raw diet.

Yep! It is easier to feed a dry or wet proprietary food BUT that won't help you identify his allergies. For instance, you decide to feed the Wafcol Salmon & Potato and he continues to have his problems as you've outlined above. Soo.....is it the salmon, or the potato or anyone of the additives that is the culprit or maybe a combination of them or all of them????

To get anywhere, IMO, and in the quickest time possible, you need to do a vet supervised raw single protein source diet. In other words, you start with duck say for 6-8 weeks, no reaction then you start adding in other bits and bobs and then build on it.

Good luck.
 

Pix

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Thanks for all the suggestions :)

Nope, not changed carpets or bedding recently.

He is fully insured so will ask about allergy testing for mites etc., as well thanks LBF. Will also ask about Epi-otic, ta. :)

There's a PAH just up the road so fishmongers is a possibility. I've made a list of all the suggestions and will have a look at them all.

Both Yasko and Ursus in his pedigree, so I shall blame them. It makes me feel better. :p

X-Posted, thanks Gunnerdog and Umbongo. Will try a fish/potato diet/getting bloods done. I'm up the creek if it's something like storage mites, I'm sharing a small fridge and freezer atm, there's barely enough room for my food!
 
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Umbongo

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I would either try raw or get the allergy bloods done at the vets. It's expensive but you will know exactly what he is allergic to. My friend tried an elimination diet for months, only to find eventually (blood test) that he is allergic to storage mites and chicken. This means no dry food and he is now fed raw minus chicken.

Otherwise dry food wise I would defiantly try a fish/potatoes dry food. Pets at home do fishmonger
 

CorvusCorax

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B was linebred on them both *sigh*
You can do all you can to manage it but it's a ****** when you have genetics on top!!

Aloe vera gel is good to take the heat out of hot/itchy spots and I got a good word on collodial silver when I was at my wit's end.
 

Pix

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Well, vet wants to be sure he hasn't had a reaction to a flea bite or something similar first. Seems a bit odd as it's been going on a while, but can see her point in wanting to eliminate something like that to begin with. I don't use Advocate every month on the dot over the winter, so he's had a does of that, a steroid injection and has to have Fuciderm on his ears 3 times a day. Back in the vets in 10 days to see how its going and get skin scrapes and bloods done if no improvement. :(

I was wondering if Fuciderm stings, as the vet got a pretty noisy warning snap when she persisted in trying to apply it. Very out of character for Loki, and he sat like a lamb whilst I put it on him half an hour ago :confused: Might have to chalk it up to a combination of stress, stranger and sore ears. Rather mortifying though, since 5 mins earlier she'd been saying how lovely he was while he licked her face. :rolleyes:

Blinking dog is nowt but stress. Anybody want an itchy German Shepherd? :p
 
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