Suggestions for persistent coughing

[Marigold4]

Six year old horse has had a cough for a month. Had vet out and his airways were scoped. The contents sent for analysis. Inflammation and a bacterial infection found. Horse now on a course of steroids (now finished) and antibiotics (nearly finished). Horse still coughing and unrideable. The inflammation suggests an allergy and he was itchy in the summer. I've changed his feeds one by one to see if it helps (it doesn't), when in he's on Aubiose dust free bedding although keeping him out now 20/24 hoping this will help. Any ideas/supplements I could try next? Vet suggests having a skin test at Liphook but it sounds expensive and unreliable? Any thoughts?

 

[rabatsa]

Is he on hay/haylage? Soaked or unsoaked or steamed?

Environmental dust is my first thought.

I have one who gets itchy on grass and certain hays, she cannot have alfalfa or clovers. At the moment tree pollen is making my eyes itch.

 

[meesha]

Baggins had a cough, even once treated he had an occasional cough. Until I switched to haylage...not even a mouthful of hay and he now just has a small wet mash feed, no chaff.. . Not one cough in months...I was giving him calmer to try and get him hacking on his own, calming cookies made him cough as did the powder even mixed into feed !!

 

[Marigold4]

He's on Country meadow haylage although it's more like wrapped hay than haylage. Not at all dusty but quite dry. Perhaps I should soak it?

 

[meesha]

You can wet it but don't soak it as it will go bad. Stick your nose right in it and see if dusty, if anything at all dampen or change to different stuff

If possible turn out permanently too. Or change bedding if that might be the issue

 

[Marigold4]

Baggins had a cough, even once treated he had an occasional cough. Until I switched to haylage...not even a mouthful of hay and he now just has a small wet mash feed, no chaff.. . Not one cough in months...I was giving him calmer to try and get him hacking on his own, calming cookies made him cough as did the powder even mixed into feed !!

Thanks for your reply. I hadn't thought about stopping the chaff. I changed it to a different brand. I'll try that next.

 

[Marigold4]

You can wet it but don't soak it as it will go bad. Stick your nose right in it and see if dusty, if anything at all dampen or change to different stuff

If possible turn out permanently too. Or change bedding if that might be the issue

He's out 20/24. I did change his bedding to Aubiose but no difference made. haylage is definitely not dusty and smells lovely. No mould.

 

[meleeka]

How much airflow does the stable have? I used a hole saw and made several small holes at the top along the back wall so that air could circulate.

 

[AWinter]

My horse started with an allergy like cough out of the blue in the summer of 2021, went down the vet medication route first but it didn’t resolve, started him on Trinity Consultants AH181 and it was pretty much completely gone within 2 weeks. I put him on this every year March-September. Worth a try? If you call Simon he’s really helpful.

 

[Marigold4]

How much airflow does the stable have? I used a hole saw and made several small holes at the top along the back wall so that air could circulate.

T

Thanks for the suggestion. Airflow is excellent in the stables as it's a small American barn with lots of windows and hatches and a good flow through. Leaving him out 20/24 hasn't made much difference though.

 

[Marigold4]

My horse started with an allergy like cough out of the blue in the summer of 2021, went down the vet medication route first but it didn’t resolve, started him on Trinity Consultants AH181 and it was pretty much completely gone within 2 weeks. I put him on this every year March-September. Worth a try? If you call Simon he’s really helpful.

Thanks for that suggestion. I will give them a ring.

 

[Red-1]

Two points. Firstly, I don't usually have hay fever but the past few weeks I have done. A couple of friends have experienced the same too. I would suspect that there is going to be a bumper crop of something this year, for example our ivy had more berries than I've ever seen! i suspect that the unusually hot summer, followed by mild winter weather, followed by a long dry spell (here at least) has made unusual plant activity.

Secondly, American barns are not always the best for allergies, as the horse 'wins' whatever is in adjoining stables too. If the neighbour is on hay, or straw, or is dusty through not being clean, your horse is essentially winning some of that too.

 

[Marigold4]

Thanks for your reply, Red. The American barn is just 3 stables and a store, and is at home. All horses are on dust-free everything to avoid anything going into the allergy sensitive one, but a good thought. They all eat the same dust-free haylage and mostly same feed. Other two are fine!

I wonder if you are right about the early hayfever as my husband says he has it too - he doesn't normally get any symptoms till Easter.

 

[Snow Falcon]

I was going to suggest Trinity too. My friend has recently got in contact with them about her pony after a recommendation. They were really helpful and knowledgeable.

 

[asmp]

Is he bedded on mats? I think of the reasons my horse used to cough was because the wee would sit under the mats (they were too heavy to lift regularly.

 

[paddi22]

my one with a persistent cough just has to live out 24/7. i always found it impossible to keep him in American barn style set up. too much stuff floating in from other stables. if he was even in for an hour I would notice him start to be affected. and I never found dust free shavings solved the issue, there are still so many particles in the air.

 

[Dontforgetaboutme]

I know feeding garlic is out of favour but I fed to mine when she had a mild respiratory problem and seemed to ease the symptom. I don’t feed it routinely

 

[Flowerofthefen]

I use benelyn, for humans, if mine get a cough.

 

[SEL]

Have you tried piriton?

I have to wet hay if the microcob is in her stable for any length of time. It just needs a 5 minute dunk. She is another allergy sufferer but she's also had a hobday to help with her breathing (I get awful hayfever and the two of us are a right mess in June).

Interesting what Red said because I've been sniffling recently and putting it down to a winter cold, but I rode the Microcob yesterday and she had a coughing fit after a short canter. She pulled herself up which is unlike her. I manage her with overnight piriton in her worst weeks and have to ignore the vets advice of keeping her in during the day because actually it made her worse. She starts her wheezing earlier than me so I think its one of the trees.

All mine are on aubiose but if you disturb the bed and its sunny you can see how much dust there is still floating around so I don't think its that brilliant really.

 

[Marigold4]

Is he bedded on mats? I think of the reasons my horse used to cough was because the wee would sit under the mats (they were too heavy to lift regularly.

He IS on mats but they are well sealed so nothing gets underneath. I could perhaps give them a scrub with some Fieldguard green goo? Thanks for the suggestion.

 

[tyner]

When they sent the scope for results, did they say what bacteria they found?

 

[PurBee]

Vitamin e is an antioxidant and immune system benefactor - in human studies natural vitamin E has been shown to help asthma and coughs - worth a trial of natural vit e?

But then i also think, why this 6 yr old and not the other 2 horses? If vit e is deficient in diet or theres aggravating spores in the environment then the other 2 are likely to show some similar type symptoms.
If the immune system of the youngster is compromised i’ll focus on gut health, as older horses are likely to have a more diverse community of gut bacteria than the younger horse. The gut is immuno-modulating, so immune system ‘issues’ like allergies can be linked back to imbalanced gut health. A mix of good probiotics is worth a trial.

Youngsters can have a wider parasite burden, inhibiting gut health function too, so perhaps zoom in on parasite issues too, even if FEC are clear, i’d do a worm, as i dont believe the FEC tests are infallible, as parasites are more likely to be egg-laying cyclically, rather than continuously daily, hence why 1 poop sample can differ from another poop sample from same horse.

 

[Marigold4]

Not sure which bacteria it was. It's being treated with doxycyclone and equisolon for the steroids.

 

[Marigold4]

Vitamin e is an antioxidant and immune system benefactor - in human studies natural vitamin E has been shown to help asthma and coughs - worth a trial of natural vit e?

But then i also think, why this 6 yr old and not the other 2 horses? If vit e is deficient in diet or theres aggravating spores in the environment then the other 2 are likely to show some similar type symptoms.
If the immune system of the youngster is compromised i’ll focus on gut health, as older horses are likely to have a more diverse community of gut bacteria than the younger horse. The gut is immuno-modulating, so immune system ‘issues’ like allergies can be linked back to imbalanced gut health. A mix of good probiotics is worth a trial.

Youngsters can have a wider parasite burden, inhibiting gut health function too, so perhaps zoom in on parasite issues too, even if FEC are clear, i’d do a worm, as i dont believe the FEC tests are infallible, as parasites are more likely to be egg-laying cyclically, rather than continuously daily, hence why 1 poop sample can differ from another poop sample from same horse.

Thanks for replying. Some useful things to think about!

I could try some vitamin e - I have some already. I think it is the natural one as well. We still have plenty of green grass though and they have been out grazing all winter. Would there still be vitamin e in winter grass?

I might try a gut balancer, particularly as he's had antibiotics now. He's had a couple of things that needed antibiotics in the last two years, the worst being an infected lymph node. My husband refers to him as "sicknote"! Is there a particular one to use after ABs?

I think he's clear of worms. I have clear egg counts and this autumn had them all blood tested for tapeworm and redworm this autumn with clear results.

 

[racebuddy]

Will pm
You xxx

 

[PurBee]

Thanks for replying. Some useful things to think about!

I could try some vitamin e - I have some already. I think it is the natural one as well. We still have plenty of green grass though and they have been out grazing all winter. Would there still be vitamin e in winter grass?

I might try a gut balancer, particularly as he's had antibiotics now. He's had a couple of things that needed antibiotics in the last two years, the worst being an infected lymph node. My husband refers to him as "sicknote"! Is there a particular one to use after ABs?

I think he's clear of worms. I have clear egg counts and this autumn had them all blood tested for tapeworm and redworm this autumn with clear results.

All vits are lower in winter grass as its so slow growing compared to summer, due to the low temps and winter light hours for photosynthesis being at minimum.
Months of december, jan and feb, i consider nutritionally minimal in terms of omega 3, vit A and E - these are all vital for immune function, so not surprising we can see pre-spring immune issues flaring in winterised horses not topped-up with these vits - as theyre also negligible values in hay.

In nature the body stores for these vits in the wild horse would carry them through to springtime good growth nutrition, but in domestication our working the horses and exposing them to many more dusts/spores, use-up these body nutrient stores therefore they can have a higher need for these nutrients, during winter months.

It’s great you already have some vit E - well worth giving it for a week and see if there’s improvement.

Certainly after antibiotics, probiotics will help get the gut repopulated with good bacteria after the killing-off of good bacteria aswell as bad via antibiotics.

I like this mix from gutbiome, sampled from the actual gut biome of healthy horses:

EquiBiome Prebiotic | equibiome

EquiBiome Prebiotic. Promoting a healthy normal microbiome, the only prebiotic that has been developed using information from the study of the 16s rRNA sequencing of the gut bacteria populations of 1,000’s of horses. Recommended for all horses. The EquiBiome prebiotic is formulated to improve...

www.equibiome.org

I’ve also used protexin gut balancer with good results - aswell as brewers yeast - that’s excellent for b vitamins too which, in the ill-gut horse, they wont be manufacturing the b vits as effeciently as they should. So a top-up of b vits via brewers yeast is a cheap, effective way. Most horses seem to like the yeasty taste too.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

Thanks for replying. Some useful things to think about!

I could try some vitamin e - I have some already. I think it is the natural one as well. We still have plenty of green grass though and they have been out grazing all winter. Would there still be vitamin e in winter grass?

I might try a gut balancer, particularly as he's had antibiotics now. He's had a couple of things that needed antibiotics in the last two years, the worst being an infected lymph node. My husband refers to him as "sicknote"! Is there a particular one to use after ABs?

I think he's clear of worms. I have clear egg counts and this autumn had them all blood tested for tapeworm and redworm this autumn with clear results.

I have one that coughs periodically and vitamin E definitely helps especially in winter.

I've just put both of mine on Progressive earth pro balance basic it has vitamin e in it, I took them off it for a while but they really don't look as good as they did when they were on it before.

 

[Marigold4]

How much airflow does the stable have? I used a hole saw and made several small holes at the top along the back wall so that air could circulate.

Airflow is excellent - vet commented on it the other day!

 

[Marigold4]

All vits are lower in winter grass as its so slow growing compared to summer, due to the low temps and winter light hours for photosynthesis being at minimum.
Months of december, jan and feb, i consider nutritionally minimal in terms of omega 3, vit A and E - these are all vital for immune function, so not surprising we can see pre-spring immune issues flaring in winterised horses not topped-up with these vits - as theyre also negligible values in hay.

In nature the body stores for these vits in the wild horse would carry them through to springtime good growth nutrition, but in domestication our working the horses and exposing them to many more dusts/spores, use-up these body nutrient stores therefore they can have a higher need for these nutrients, during winter months.

It’s great you already have some vit E - well worth giving it for a week and see if there’s improvement.

Certainly after antibiotics, probiotics will help get the gut repopulated with good bacteria after the killing-off of good bacteria aswell as bad via antibiotics.

I like this mix from gutbiome, sampled from the actual gut biome of healthy horses:

EquiBiome Prebiotic | equibiome

EquiBiome Prebiotic. Promoting a healthy normal microbiome, the only prebiotic that has been developed using information from the study of the 16s rRNA sequencing of the gut bacteria populations of 1,000’s of horses. Recommended for all horses. The EquiBiome prebiotic is formulated to improve...

www.equibiome.org

I’ve also used protexin gut balancer with good results - aswell as brewers yeast - that’s excellent for b vitamins too which, in the ill-gut horse, they wont be manufacturing the b vits as effeciently as they should. So a top-up of b vits via brewers yeast is a cheap, effective way. Most horses seem to like the yeasty taste too.

Thanks, Purbee. I'll get him started on the vit e and also get a probiotic for him. Thanks so much for time in giving me a detailed and useful answer - much appreciated!

 

[Marigold4]

I have one that coughs periodically and vitamin E definitely helps especially in winter.

I've just put both of mine on Progressive earth pro balance basic it has vitamin e in it, I took them off it for a while but they really don't look as good as they did when they were on it before.

Thanks for replying - I'm going to give vit e a go!