suggestions on mares behaviour

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poglet1991

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Hi, i have posted on here before about my mare. shes a 14.3hh 8yro irish cob, i've had her 3 years and shes never been an easy horse but she can be such a lovely horse. shes very jeckyl and hide, either lovely or a lunatic. recently shes been lovely to ride with only the occasional burst of excitement which if ignored she soon gets over. she is very stressy in the stable and will often rear at me or become very over excited and bargy. she can be very bolshy to lead but in a chifney or a chain she is fine. normally her behaviour is down to turnout, she will always be bolshy but is normally not as stressy/exciteable if she gets abit more time out. however i have been putting her out overnight for the past week and yesterday i ended up in a&e. she is in season but this doesn't normally affect her. i wonder if its maybe a combination of the spring grass, season and turnout in a week thats sent her over the edge. i'm in no mind to sell her, then she'd just get passed from pillar to post. i just wondered if anyone else had experience of a mare like this as iv'e never met another cob like her! i won't listen to people that tell me to beat her, i take a firm but fair approach and by no means am soft with her but she will only escalate if disaplined harshly! Thank you so much to anyone with suggestions :) x
 
You don't need to beat her but you do have to put her in her place. I always take this view - she has most of the 24 hours a day 7 days a week to behave how she likes in the field but when you are riding/handling her - YOU ARE BOSS!!

This could very well be her first season this year as the weather has been so awful but don't start giving her excuses! Personally, I would ditch the chifney because in a way you cannot be as hard on her with it as you might need to! Get yourself a controlling headcollar like a dually and give her a good few hard jerks on it when she plays you up. Be very mindful of YOU SPACE and stick to your boundaries. Once she has learnt that you are no longer going to give into her paddies then she should start listening to you.

Man up!!
 
Sounds exactly like my welsh mare! She is worse if the weather is turning, right at that about to rain point!
ATM she is in season and with the grass coming through I am having a little extra difficulty leading. Usually she isn't too bad. She also is horrid in the stable at these times.

I have no advice or tips I'm afraid but I am in the same boat and will be keeping an eye on this thread!
 
My usually calm mare turned into a real stroppy beast with her first couple of seasons and spring grass etc. for the last 3 weeks I've given her 1/2 level teaspoon of vitex Agnus castus. This is a fraction of the recommended 15-30ml per day but was advised to build it slowly as it has quite a strong taste. Can't believe the change in her for the better. Not going to increase it as she seems just fine as she is. She's back to my lovely lady again.
 
thehorsephotographer said:
My usually calm mare turned into a real stroppy beast with her first couple of seasons and spring grass etc. for the last 3 weeks I've given her 1/2 level teaspoon of vitex Agnus castus. This is a fraction of the recommended 15-30ml per day but was advised to build it slowly as it has quite a strong taste. Can't believe the change in her for the better. Not going to increase it as she seems just fine as she is. She's back to my lovely lady again.
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i'll definitely give this a try thank you :)
 
amymay said:
How many hours a day turnout is she getting? And what are you feeding?
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Hi, 24/7 other than been brought in to ride. shes currently on nothing due to her behaviour but shes been on ride and relax and alfa A for the past 6 months without problem. she has to have a low carb/sugar diet as she has azoturia :)
 
mcnaughty said:
You don't need to beat her but you do have to put her in her place. I always take this view - she has most of the 24 hours a day 7 days a week to behave how she likes in the field but when you are riding/handling her - YOU ARE BOSS!!

This could very well be her first season this year as the weather has been so awful but don't start giving her excuses! Personally, I would ditch the chifney because in a way you cannot be as hard on her with it as you might need to! Get yourself a controlling headcollar like a dually and give her a good few hard jerks on it when she plays you up. Be very mindful of YOU SPACE and stick to your boundaries. Once she has learnt that you are no longer going to give into her paddies then she should start listening to you.

Man up!!
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Thanks for the advice. it is irrelevant though as i did state i am not soft with her. also she has an eskadron controller halter with a chain but as she rears when shes in this state i will not be taking her out of the chifney anytime soon as its the only thing i have control in. thanks.
 
Very little that mcnaghty says is irrelevant. So much for seeking suggestions on how to handle the situation.

How rude.
 
Dear OP
You are not alone, and I too will be watching this thread with interest!
Mcnaughty, what you suggest I have tried with my mare, and it was the ONLY thing that worked. I too think they need to know who's boss, but it is scary!

It took me a long time to accept that I needed to get significantly firmer with her, but I had immediate results.
 
i honestly don't mean to offend and i only meant to my situation, i'm sure in others it is very relevent. its just every time i seek help on here i get people cutting me down telling me i need to be harsher or man up. i know people mean firm not cruel and i am firm enough with her which is why i stated it in the thread. i'm sorry if that came across wrong, it wasn't meant to which is why i thanked her for the advice, i do appreciate people taking time to help me, but i did specifically state that i was already firm with her and by no means a soft touch and i find it offensive that people assume that i am even when otherwise stated. i do appreciate people don't have the full story though, i have tryed to be as thorough as i could. Thanks :)
 
Are there any good trainers near you?

You say you are "not soft" with her, but as no one on the forum can see you handling the horse, no one can know what the answer is. A handler can so very easily believe they are being "not soft" with a horse and yet be failing to apply corrections clearly and consistently, in a way that the horse understands (a) what it was being corrected for and (b) what it is you want it to do instead.
 
JEZA said:
Dear OP
You are not alone, and I too will be watching this thread with interest!
Mcnaughty, what you suggest I have tried with my mare, and it was the ONLY thing that worked. I too think they need to know who's boss, but it is scary!

It took me a long time to accept that I needed to get significantly firmer with her, but I had immediate results.
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Hi, thanks for the advice. i've tryed varying levels of firmness with her. if i ride and she kicks off it is usually better to ignore her or she will escalate. i do believe it is not just me being soft though the more force used with her the more dangerous she becomes next time i come to do a task. shes a very clever little mare and if you can convince her shes doing something because she wants to then thats the battle won :) i'm just worried that at the minute she seems completely off of her rocker and shes normally pretty ok when shes in season even if its her first :s Thanks :)
 
Caol Ila said:
Are there any good trainers near you?

You say you are "not soft" with her, but as no one on the forum can see you handling the horse, no one can know what the answer is. A handler can so very easily believe they are being "not soft" with a horse and yet be failing to apply corrections clearly and consistently, in a way that the horse understands (a) what it was being corrected for and (b) what it is you want it to do instead.
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well i have her at uni with me and many of the lecturers on equine behaviour and instructors here have witnessed some of her outbursts and they have never pulled me up on how i've handled the situation. i do see what you are saying though :) shes a lot better now than when i bought her but i would say that when she does kick off it worse now just less often. its also worth saying she can be an absolute angel too shes just very jeckyll and hide :) Thanks
 
What do your equine behaviour lecturers and instructors think you should do? Their opinions are surely of far more value and relevance than those of a bunch of random people on the internet who don't know you or your horse. :)
 
Caol Ila said:
What do your equine behaviour lecturers and instructors think you should do? Their opinions are surely of far more value and relevance than those of a bunch of random people on the internet who don't know you or your horse. :)
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a lot of them are quite busy. one tryed helping me with her lunging but says shes too dangerous so to sack it off :s i had lessons for a while and they agreed with the ignoring her or i sometimes put her on a 10 metre circle at trot which does help settle her. regarding leading it was one of them who reccomended the eskadron as it can be used 3 different ways and her diet was formulated by the nutritionist lecturer here with her behaviour in mind :) with the season thing i've been advised to leave her out while shes like this and just pop her on the walker then maybe ride her in a weeks time when shes over the worst of it, this is a good plan but i'm thinking shes just gonna get super fit on the walker and give me one hell of a ride next week :/ i just wondered if anyone else had experienced this sort of bi polar behaviour, she changes day to day and shes had everything checked so its not pain related or physiological, its like shes so pumped up she just can't help herself but do it. theres a wide breadth of knowledge on here and people may have encountered some very unique horses :)
 
My mare was awful during the winter,didnt like the weather,and if I put a rug on her she stands by the gate all day and wont eat,then she is hungry and a nightmare to bring in. I am learning to be firmer with her though and it does seem to be improving matters.
She is very affected by weather,wind and rain she is difficult but when its calm and sunny she is a dobbin! She also hates anything new going on and will spin and rear.Am now going to try agnus castus.Thankyou.she is a chestnut mare!
 
The Agnus castus I get from Progressivd earth in their eBay shop.

I have a gelding who sounds quite similar to this. I'm currently working through groundworks with him having taken him right back to basics. Shouting or getting angry with him only gets me into a confrontational stand off situation with him and when he's acting up I honestly think he can't help himself - its like someone or thing flicks a switch on him.

The groundworks however is paying off. I bought a rope halter with the knots on the nose (only two not four or five) to start the groundworks and that works really well to keep him in his place without any arguments. He can be very bargy/pushy in the ground when in his normal leather headcollar still however so we are not quite there still but he is inconsistent.

He's turned out 24/7 on a bare paddock with hay in small holed net as his neck is quite cresty and he's difficult to keep weight down. I'm have been war hung and monitoring his behaviour very carefully and I suspect that he may be suffering with EMS. If I give him a good workout he's better the following day but if I miss a day or two he's a nightmare. Same if I am ever late getti g over to see him and his hay has run out (very rarely happens) nightmare. So I think he's insulin resistant. I wonder if any of this may be the same with your mare?

The way yo fund out for sure is a blood test but it can give false negative/positive and involves starving for 12 hours prior to the test - a nightmare in his case!
 
poglet1991 said:
i do believe it is not just me being soft though the more force used with her the more dangerous she becomes next time i come to do a task. shes a very clever little mare and if you can convince her shes doing something because she wants to then thats the battle won :) i'm just worried that at the minute she seems completely off of her rocker and shes normally pretty ok when shes in season even if its her first :s Thanks :)
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Establishing boundaries where your mare should be obedient and respond to your signals in a calm and mannerly way, doesn't really have anything to with 'force' or manning up, etc. In fact, quite the opposite because if you do use 'force' it makes horses more fearful which just makes the unwanted behaviour change in nature or escalate, not go away.

Once your horse and you have established a relationship where she feels she is able to get her way, it will most probably get worse, as you've described, until you can work out different ways of handling/riding her in a way that re-established the relationship where she feels she is no longer top dog.

When your lecturers have stated she's too dangerous to ride/handle/lunge etc, I think thats because they're seeing a horse that has behaved in this way for a long time where the behavioural has escalated so that her behaviour 'appears' pretty extreme.

I woudn't suggest you do lunge her because it provides another opportunity for her to dictate where and how fast her feet go - basically she can disobey your commands very easily because you have little control in this activity. Lunging is fine for well trained/obeident horse but for those who can mess about, they will do so on the lunge.

As you've ended up in A&E, I think it's time that you had some help with this horse and I'm sure you're parents and friends would probably say the same. There's no shame in getting help and I bet in a couple of weeks with different handling you wont' believe she's the same mare. The trouble is, once she's learnt that she can get you out of the way and you do so by falling over [or whatever happened to you - hope you're Okay] it reinforces the behaviour, making it more likely to happened again if you handle her in the same way.

Yes, there could be hormonal reasons why her behaviour is worse (everything is in season at the moment) but I expect there is an underlying behavioural issue that needs tackling.

I think you need an instructor that can show you how to improve firstly, your handling skills on the ground then secondly your ridden skills. Get someone like at least BHS II or a behaviourist and read some info on them as you need someone who will observe you carefully to show you the exact subtle moments where she begins to take control and then what to do about it, like pressure/release techniques at the correct moment. You need to be quick to realise when its happening and super quick with your response to teach her new boundaries.
 
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Tonks, I agree with you, especially the lunging. The last time I tried to lunge my mare she reared up and ran at me with her teeth nashing. She was livid!
When she is being caught,she tries to round me up and get me to join her little herd, (needless to say she is top dog in the field)!
Leading her in from the field is a bit scary.
I wont do much with mine unless I have a stick with me, because her teeth are her main weapon.
 
Hi guys, thought I'd give you a little update :) cas is still being crazy despite being out of season. i had the farrier the other day and she was a nighmare, shes normally brilliant for the farrier and he suggested i give my vet a call. Rang my vet and he believes theres definitely something going on as she is out of character. She's going on a months regumate when i come home from uni then if that stops it shes going to be scanned to see if theres anything going on. Thanks for all the advice and hopefully this helps her :)
 
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