Suing my vets

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Emmak12

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hi i just want to get people ideas and oppinions on whether i should sue my vets.

Basically my horse suffer from on going choke.
At first, she choked a few times on hay about once every month, so contacted the vet, and her teeth were in a bad way from pervious owner, so she had them electric drilled, however she continued to choke more frequently, once every 2 weeks, carried on having teeth done every 6 months, vet said would like to do an endoscopy to look down her oesophagus, so told me to first, fill out a claim form to see if they would cover one. I had never claimed for anything before, so didnt know how it worked.
Anyway i did this stating that the treatment was still ongoing and sent it to the vets to fill out. Knowing that my vet was on paternity leave about one week later i rang them to see what would happen, i was told that another vet would fill it out so that it would be ready for when he gets back.
2 weeks passed, still nothing, so i rang my insurance company to see if they recieved it yet. They hadnt so i rang my vets, was told it had not been sent yet, so they said they would get onto it. another 2 weeks passed, still not heard anything, so rang my vets she said there was no way of knowing if it had been sent yet, a lie becasue i had already rang previously and they looked on their comp to see. Another 2 weeks later i was passing so went into the surgery to ask if it had been sent, they said no, so i said can you tell him to do it as its been waiting 6 weeks already...said oh ok will put a note on the vets (not going to name) desk telling him to do it. Another week passed and was in town, so dropped in to see if it had been sent, it hadnt so i said that its not on..my insurance company wont pay soon as it will be over 12months, so it needs to be sent asap. they said ok will put an urgent note on his desk. The follwoing week i got a phone call from them saying they are sending it now (8 weeks later).

When i finally got it back from my insurance they said that they would only pay £65 as will only pay the frist 12months of the claim..basically meaning they would pay for the scope as its too late now. Just as i predicted due to vets not sending it off in time.

This was sept last year...vets tried to say it was my fault as i should have just done the treatment then claimed....but it was the vet that told me to claim first. anyway they didnt offer any thing to me, just that it prob wouldnt have made a difference anyway...carry on doing her teeth with them 6 monthly.

Its recently got to the point where my mare is now choking up to 4 times a week. so vet suggested to now do an endoscope (what i wanted to claim for anyway) but i would have to pay. so i did this 3 weeks ago. It only went to the top of her stomach only. But didnt show any cancer or flaps. so good sign. he said might just have to live with it..try changing her feed.

I changed her feed from apple chaff to hifi original, and a partial hay replacement with alfabeet. However she has choked on both of these since.

she now cant go a week without choking, i have contacted another vets who suggested a gastroscopy and contrast study, which would require multiple xrays. This would cost a lot of money...which i now cant claim on my insurance due to their mistake.

Sorry its a long story but any ideas if its is worth suing the veterinary practise?
Its causing a lot of stress, lack of sleep. maybe even having to sell her to someone who can pay for all this, or a charity. I really dont want to do this, i love my mare to peices cant bare to part with her, i just want to know whats wrong with her.

do you think i would have a claim if i sued them? or anyone else sued their vets and won.

Thanks XxEmmaxX
 
Sorry your having all this trouble with your vets and I can't answer where you would stand on suing due to them not completing the claim form but its just a thought around your mares teeth. Is it the vets that are dealing with her dental work every 6 months? If so I would seriously consider getting an Equine Dental Technician out to look at her teeth as they are qualified and specialise in this area. Even just for a second opinion to put your mind at rest. Hope you can get things sorted as it must be very distressing for your mare to keep getting choke.
 
I'm sorry to hear about your horse and the ongoing choke issues.

I will happily be corrected if anyone knows better but I don't think you have grounds to claim against your vets because all they really did wrong was give questionable insurance claims advice and to practise poor admin. Although neither of these things will win them any favours with their clients they are definitely not against the law or any codes of practise that I know of.

The defence solicitor would simply claim that you do not pay the vet for their insurance advice and that they did not break any timescales for the completion of the paperwork, so they did nothing wrong. They could also point out that you could have gone against the vets advice and booked in for the procedure and that the insurance wouldn't necessarily have paid anyway.

Sorry it isn't better news.
 
From what you say it does sound like you have a case but then I am not clued up on equine law or law in any matter.

But from what you say it does sound like they were negligent, have you contacted a solictor just for advice, usually the first hour is free.

If not I'd do that quick before thsi drags out as the longer it takes the longer your horse suffers with choke
 
hey thanks for your replies!

Well i have got an oppintment with another vets on thursday for a 2nd oppinion! I think i will see what he reccommends and i will prob tell my vets that i am not happy and will considar taking it further and seeing what they say! I think its a good idea to think about talking to a solicitor just to find out if i would have a case. My insurance company do cover endoscopy as i checked with them at the time, when i found out they would no longer pay! It has been 3 weeks since the endoscopy was perfromed but i have not recieved my bill yet! I think i will take it from thursday and see what they suggest as to how much it would cost to go forth with further treatment!
Im just wondering, there must be something i could go on cuz technically my horse is suffering because of them and so far ive not been compensated in any way for their mistake.
XxEmmaxX
 
No offence to you, Emma but I really hate this culture of 'something has gone wrong, who can I sue?'
I really don't think you should sue anyone, and can't see how you have a case BUT I would be writing letter or speaking directly to the practice manager & ask the vets what they intend to do to help you. Equally I would do the same with the insurance company.

Surely they can do something to help you, rather than lining the pockets of injury lawyers for you, or whatever.

I hope your mare improves by the way, must be a worry. x
 
Technically your horse is not suffering BECAUSE OF THEM - as you say. Its suffering because it hasnt been fully owrked up to find a solution - and there may not BE a solution. i dont think you can put the balme for your horses suffering on your vets - YOU should have gone ahead with the scope long before the insurance claim was sent off if you were actually worried about it. And why didnt you talk to your insurers yourself first? take responsibility for your own negligence to your horse. If you cant afford to treat the horse then you should have put an end to her suffering long ago. Write a letter to your vets explaining that you are extremely unhappy with the way they handled their paperwork and ask what they intend to do about it. Many practices will cancel or reduce the cost of the work they have done if somone has a genuine complaint.
Oh, and change vets.

I hate this "suing mentality". It sucks.
 
I agree with most of the posts on here, your vets are not "technically" or otherwise responsible for your horse's suffering- you knew there was a problem and that she wasn't getting better and you should have have more work done. If you had received a letter saying the scoping wasn't covered then wouldn't you have done it anyway?

You should know that your Insurance only covers you for 12 months treatment and made sure that any expensive treatment was done before the end of it- I'm surprised that you let her go on with it for 12 months without scoping in all honesty.

You have no grounds to sue anyone I'm afraid, yes the claim form should have been sent quicker but that is purely administrative- they did recommend further work up. Write a polite letter to the practise manager and advise your position, they may offer a discounted service on this one occasion but certainly are under no obligation to. Good luck!
 
Trying to take professionals to court is not easy and you usually lose and its not worth it for small amounts of money. If you have a problem put it in writing to them explaining you are not happy and will not pay the full amount of the bill. I have found this the best way when dealing with anyone who you feel has not provided an adequate service, it puts the derry back on to them and usually gets a quick response. Threatening people with court proceedings in my experience usually has the opposite effect of what you are trying to prove,
 
You really don't have any grounds to sue at all. You have a contract with your insurers and it is your responsibility to be aware of the terms and conditions of your policy.

Your vet was right to say that it is best to tell your insurers before performing further diagnositics, but this can usually be done verbally and is not dependent on the submission of an initial claim form. It was your responsibility to ensure that any further investigations were performed within a year.

I agree that your vet should have returned the form to you sooner. You may find that they are prepared to discount the cost of the scope if you have a chat with them, however this is probably less likely if you have changed practice and they have already lost your goodwill.
 
Agree with the others that you have no grounds for suing.

On the matter of choking, why are you feeding hifi original?
I would have her right off ANY type of chaff/dried roughage.
This will cause the choke!! Its so dry that it will just "ball up" in her throat.

Have you tried taking her off any off these types of feeds and keeping her on sugar beet/coarse mix style feeds.

Also put a bit rock in her bucket so she cant take big mouthfuls, this will also help.

I hope you find a solution as chokes are distressing to watch
 
Sorry to be a bit blunt but rather than waste your money trying to sue your vet why don't you use the money to find out what is actually causing her to choke.
We know a horse that chokes but due to careful stable/feed management he may choke once a year if that!!! The owners are very very careful not too over do his hay etc to minimise the risk of him choking.
Sorry but it's not your vets fault, maybe you should have taken the form in and got it signed there and then.
I agree that the time they took is really not acceptable and you should make complaint, but the situation could have been avoided.
I think the important thing is to spend the money treating your mare not sueing vets!!
Hope something gets sorted.
 
How are you now managing the choke?

My horse is prone, and I find feeding a well soaked feed (soaked for around 1 hour), and fairly sloppy ensures that choke doesn't happen.

I also give him his hard feed before any hay when he comes in off winter grazing as he is also less likely to choke scoffing down a sloppy mash tea, and would if he stuffed hay immediately.

I always claim for treatment afterwards, rather than before - but obviously notify my insurance company that treatment is about to proceed.
 
i wouldn't consider a vet to sort out my horses teeth, any vet, good, bad or ugly! an equine dentist is the person to get in in my view and probably cheaper for you in the end. i do hope you manage to get it sorted in the end as it must be so uncomfortable for your poor horse!
 
ok this is to all.

I have not said that i am going to sue the vets i am asking the oppinions of others, as to whether i would have a case. My point is the fact the vets have been notified of my compliant several times and are not willing to do anything about it or accept any blame for their poor management.

The vetrinary practise may not have broken any laws but has duty of care to all of their clients, this invloves paperwork. It should be perfromed in a timely manor. The vets were aware that the insurance would run out in 2months time, which in my oppinion is still enough time to go ahead with further treatment. I did infact take the form into the clinic myself to get it sent, but the vet was out at the time, this is the reason i was contacting them so many times to ensure it was to be performed in time.

The reason i did not have further treatment before this date is due to the fact that i am not a vet and am only going on what my vet reccommends, much like the average horse owner who puts their trusts in their vet. The treating vet has a responsability to diagnose and treat each case accordingly which in this case has not occured. The reason i filled out a claim form before the treatment had occured was due to the advice given to me from my vet.

With regards to the feed, i am feeding her on hifi and alfa beet from the advice of naff and dengie nutritionists who are professionals in feeding. The fact that she has choked on both of these, fed seperately, this has not made a difference and shows that changing the feed is not the answer.

The chokes are managed in the best possible ways, doubled haynets, brick in feed, sloppy feed, no hay before dinner, feed from the ground. if you are interested further see my other post 'ongoing choke'.

As far as the result from the endoscope, this shows that the problem is not in the oesophagus it indicates that it is perhaps the stomach. The condition doesnt occur over the summer as at grass she is fine only showing the occational choke. This should have been observed by the vet and indicates that the problem is hard feed and an investigation into the stomach should have been made long ago.

Now my insurance is now void, due to their bad practise, i now have a horse who is in a worse condition, needing further treatment, with still no resolve. I am seeking legal advice based on a duty of care and misdiagnosis from the treating vet.
 
Now my insurance is now void, due to their bad practise, i now have a horse who is in a worse condition, needing further treatment, with still no resolve. I am seeking legal advice based on a duty of care and misdiagnosis from the treating vet.
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I absolutely agree with you that the vets have taken a ridiculously long time to fill out your paperwork. However, all you had to do was inform your insurance company that investigations were commencing and you wouldn't be in this position.

Hope you get the resolution that you seek, both from the vets and in terms of your horses recovery.
 
Emmak12 said:
....I had never claimed for anything before, so didnt know how it worked. ...

From what I understand, the root cause of the problem is that you didn't know? So it was your responsibility to find out and to get the insurers permission for a procedure if you wanted it done? So iIt sounds to me like the vet suggesting it as an option, rather than essential? Which is why they suggested you contact the insurer first, so that you could *choose* not to do the endoscopy if you decided it was too expensive?

The delay from the vet may be inexcusable - unless they were waiting to actually do the treatment before filling in a claim form? I don't think you can put in a claim for something that has not been done yet and I don't imagine would get anywhere with this if you tried to sue.
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I think the OP has been unfortunate but also very naiive. She says she took the form in personally but the vet wasn't there. I'd have been on the phone before evening surgery started to speak to them and ask them to fill the form in, not just sat back and waited. And how on earth can anyone still be waiting to start investigations/treatment 12 months later? I'd have changed practice or asked for a referral to a veterinary college way before that happened. Choke is an emergency situation and clearly this case is not self-resolving so it should have been investigated further as a matter of urgency. As to the opinion of the vet - well they aren't God and don't have the answer to everything, and no-one should ever just accept one person's opinion, however well qualifed they are. Do your own research, use the internet, post messages on sites like this, become your own expert. 14 years ago my vet told me my horse had an untreatable condition and recommended I have her put down. I stuck to my guns and last year, tragically, my vet died but my horse is still going strong. Incidentally, my horse injured her tendon aged 22. The insurance paid for her treatment which totalled more than £1000, but some months after the final payment had been made, I received an apologetic note from the vet's practice manager saying that they had mis-dated a visit and here is the invoice, thank you very much. It turned out to be the original emergency call-out for my severely lame horse, and was over £100. I obviously couldn't claim it on the insurance and just had to swallow it, but it wasn't exactly what I needed right then. I was a bit miffed, but at the end of the day, it was an honest error, a simple typo and we all make mistakes.
 
I think many are quick to side with the Vets on this one, im staying in the middle on this one.

I have myself had the misfortune of Poor Vet care with one of my animals, my dog was misdiagnosed & consiquently died in a lot of suffering. The Vets where at fault, when the dog was taken in a mad panic to Leahurst they found the exact problem within 5 mins, however 1hr later the dog died.
Niave yes maybe i was but you have to put your trust in someone don't you?? Vet's do have a duty of care to the animals under there treatment, they should be the last people to cause suffering.

We did take this further & didnt get far, records where changed & the amount of total lie's put foward by the ex- Vets was disgusting. Since this happened to me i was sad to find out another animal had suffered a similar fate with the same Vets.

As for ringing up everyday to get the Vet to complete insurance i find that a bit much, i myself have never rung Vets everyday to get them to complete such a form. Normally Vets are more than happy to do these forms as they get paid!!

I wish you luck OP if you plan to take it further but all i can say is even with a rock solid case they will still wriggle out of it if there anything like the horrors i had to deal with.

I would like to point out i have extremely good Vets now, but i don't think i will ever be able to trust another Vet 100% again.
 
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As someone who is actually legally qualified I would say that you should at least seek proper advice.

Your vet may have been negligent in failing to provide proper advice and in causing you a financial loss. But there is not enough information on a forum to be able to advise and professional negligence is a little outside my area of expertise.

Basically your vet has a duty to provide you with suitable advice and care for your animal, if he has breached this duty by behaving in a way that a "reasonable vet" would not then you may have a claim for the losses that flow from that breach.

The OP made the vet aware of the timescales and if he couldn't deal within the time or if things should have proceeded differently then he should have told her. He shouldn't have simply sat on his hands and let her insurance expire.

OP if you are a BHS member call their legal helpline and talk to them. If not find a lawyer who may be able to help by going on the legal 500 website (google it) and search for a "professional negligence" specialist most firms will speak to you first and tell you whether you might have a claim before you have to pay. This is a complex area and many law firms won't touch it so don't accept advice from a bunch of people on a forum without a legal qualification between them, speak to a specialist.

Even if you don't have a claim in negligence you can certainly make a complaint via the vets surgery complaints proceedure and via the RCVS if you get no joy from the internal complaints proceedure.

Good luck.
 
I think you need to write formally to the Practice, to the partners, or senior and set down the events clearly, if possible with dates. Don't ramble, keep to bullet points if possible.

Ask them to undertake the investigations at their expense as they failed to carry out your requests regarding the insurance claim and you cannot now claim.

I think saying "I want to sue" is easy to say, but hard to do, and very expensive. If there is a clear case you can go tothe Small Claims court, but I don't know if this would be coverd in your case.
 
Katt thank you for your mature oppinion! To update yesterday i rang my vets to put my complaint to the manger and was told she will take it seriously. My vet then rang me back and was very rude, and has now said that he will no longer be involved with me. So from making a complaint i have no been cut off from my vet. Now im sorry but i think this is disgusting practise.

I am taking my mare to another vets on thurday for a 2nd opinion.
Today i phoned my insurance company and explain what the vets had done. They have now said that if it is found that the vet has misdiagnosed it and its not a thorat condition, and the new vets find it is in the stomach, they will pay for the treatment as its classed as unrelated. This is a huge relief.

However i am now not sure whether to ring the manger again and explain what the vet had said and that they need to take responsability for the mistake they made. Its not about the money, its about the serivce i have recieved and the way they have dealt with the situation. As a consumer i have a right to get a 2nd opinion and a right to lodge a complaint, i should not have been made to feel less important. However from making the first complaint this put me in the situation where my vet been extremely rude...if i complain again what are they going to do next?

Rosiefronfelen - before the vet had first come out to this condition, i had my mares teeth done by an equine dentist, and she completely missed the fact that my mares teeth were in a really really bad way and failed to treat it. This is why i no longer have faith in free-lance equine dentists. Every time my mare has had her teeth done she has always been sedated, and this can not be performed by an equine dentist, and would require me to also have a vet out everytime to sedate the horse.
As well as this, using the electric drill can be dangerous, in that if the drill slips it can cut into the horses mouth, having a qualified vet that specialises in dentistry allows the correct qualified person present in the case of such emergencies. This is why i do not have a equine dentist out to my horse.
 
Definitely speak to the practice manager again. You need them to deal with all of your concerns and to be aware of all the issues, it sounds like your vet is a bit of a nutter and perhaps needs a formal warning and retraining in customer care!!!

Glad the practice are taking it seriously, getting things resolved internally will be better all round than having to litigate.
 
' having a qualified vet that specialises in dentistry .....'


These are very few and far between. Most vets study dentistry very briefly as part of their training and I would advise anyone looking for a properly qualified equine dentist to consult the BEVA list and make sure their dentist is qualified and insured.

http://www.baedt.com/members.php
 
sorry Emmak, i only suggested the equine dentist not knowing that you'd been down that line. not all dentists are bad, same as not all vets are bad, our equine dentist teaches all over the country and abroad and personally i wouldn't change him for a vet for love nor money- only tried to help, good luck if you still intend sueing!!
 
Emmak12 said:
Rosiefronfelen - before the vet had first come out to this condition, i had my mares teeth done by an equine dentist, and she completely missed the fact that my mares teeth were in a really really bad way and failed to treat it. This is why i no longer have faith in free-lance equine dentists. Every time my mare has had her teeth done she has always been sedated, and this can not be performed by an equine dentist, and would require me to also have a vet out everytime to sedate the horse.
As well as this, using the electric drill can be dangerous, in that if the drill slips it can cut into the horses mouth, having a qualified vet that specialises in dentistry allows the correct qualified person present in the case of such emergencies. This is why i do not have a equine dentist out to my horse.
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There is a world of difference between a freelance equine dentist and a qualified and registed EDT. I only use the latter and have absolutely no problems with their work. By the way, some EDTs are also qualified vets and so able to do the sedation as well. All bar one of our horses very happily accepts the electric drill without sedation.
 
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