Supplement advice please?

[Coblover63]

I have had my traditional cob since he was 11 months old (6yrs ago) and Im starting to think he may be IR as he seems to inhale calories from air and I haven't seen his ribs for a looooong while! I had the vet out last week to take blood from our Cushings boy and she agreed that he look a candidate for testing In the meantime, he is currently living out 24/7 in a long thin strip with very little grass, with hay that I soak for many hours and being worked as much as I can fit in. However, I seen to remember that horses on soaked hay need some supplementation and I would be grateful if anyone can remind me what he will need?

Thank you

 

[supsup]

You probably want something like a balancer that contains the minimum RDA of all the important nutrients, including essential amino acids. The advantage of a balancer (over a powdered supplement) is that you can feed it neat without additional bucket feed, keeping the calories to a minimum. A good all-around vit,min and quality protein supplement would do the same job though if you can feed it in a small feed of e.g. low calorie chaff (but often, they are not very tasty and the bucket feed starts to increase to get the horse to eat!).
Because the forage you feed won't contain much in the way of vitamins, and you're restricting grass, make sure whatever product you choose has a decent amount of Vitamin E (aim for 1000IU/dose or more). The daily requirement for a 500kg horse based on the NRC recommendations is 400mg for zinc, 100mg for copper and 1mg for selenium per day. (You can check these on this link: http://nrc88.nas.edu/nrh/). If you check those three, you can usually get a pretty good picture whether the recommended dose of a balancer or supplement will cover the full daily requirements.
The other thing you might want to consider feeding is a mug of linseed per day (go for the micronized full-fat type, not lozenges or similar). While it is very high calorie, the small amount in a mugful won't add a lot of calories in the big picture, but it provides omega 3 fatty acids that horses are usually getting from grass. If you restrict grass a lot, this is one way of providing them instead.

 

[Leo Walker]

Progressive Earth Platinum is the one I use for my fatty. Its a mineral balancer and has 2000ius of vitamin e. He gets a handful of linseed, and salt as well

 

[Birker2020]

Pink powder is really good and good value for money too. In a nutshell its a concentrated feed balancer containing live yeasts and probiotics known to support gut function. It also contains vitamins and nutrients. Its good for loss of appetite and weight loss and is good for colic prone horses, which is why I use it for my horse.

 

[supsup]

Pink powder is really good and good value for money too. In a nutshell its a concentrated feed balancer containing live yeasts and probiotics known to support gut function. It also contains vitamins and nutrients. Its good for loss of appetite and weight loss and is good for colic prone horses, which is why I use it for my horse.

Actually, pink powder does not contain the full daily RDA for the most important minerals (most important as in: most likely to be short in a forage-only diet) if you read the label carefully. I wouldn't recommend it as a complete supplement to feed to a horse that is on a restricted diet (though it may well be a useful supplement for gut issues, and to top up levels). Reading the label carefully (or the analysis on feed company's website) is the best way to compare products. Often, supplements contain a long list of ingredients, but many of them at low levels.

 

[Birker2020]

Actually, pink powder does not contain the full daily RDA for the most important minerals (most important as in: most likely to be short in a forage-only diet) if you read the label carefully. I wouldn't recommend it as a complete supplement to feed to a horse that is on a restricted diet (though it may well be a useful supplement for gut issues, and to top up levels). Reading the label carefully (or the analysis on feed company's website) is the best way to compare products. Often, supplements contain a long list of ingredients, but many of them at low levels.

No you are quite right. But its classed as a broad spectrum vitamin and mineral supplement and feed balancer presumably meaning it is widely effective in the majority of horses.

Must admit I was quite miffed to find my horse with a splenic entrapment a couple of weeks ago (successfully treated) whilst on a loading dose of pink powder increased from maintenance dose because he was going out at grass after a long period off the grass. I'd given him the extra scoops (four extra per day - up from two) for about a week before which was when I was informed by the YO that they were going out and I'd been introducing grass to his belly for weeks before that on hacks and using Readigrass (not sure if that actually works) AND he only went out for 1 hour first day increasing to 2 hours after that - colic at 6.5 days following out at grass!

When I complained to the vet that the pink powder wasn't doing its job she turned around and said "Well how do you know it wasn't? This colic could have been a lot worse without it!" That is a good point!

That's the trouble with supplements. You put your horse on them and then you are absolutely loathe to take them off again.......just in case!

 

[Leo Walker]

The ingredients in pink powder really dont make it a concentrated balancer! Its mainly fillers, some brewers yeast, mag ox, salt and Fructooligosaccharides which is a sweetener.

Wheat feed, Brewers' yeast, Maize, Calcium carbonate, Dicalcium phosphate, Rapeseed oil, Whey protein powder, Carrot (dried), Sodium chloride, Fructooligosaccharides, Whey powder, Wheat protein, Maltodextrin, Beetroot juice, Magnesium oxide

This really wouldnt be suitable as a balancer/supplement for a horse who was on a restricted diet.

You could almost certainly feed brewers yeast, mag ox and salt and give your horse the same benefits as pink powder but without all the crap! Just shows what good marketing will do for a supplement though!

 

[JenHunt]

Fructooligosaccharides which is a sweetener.

Wheat feed, Brewers' yeast, Maize, Calcium carbonate, Dicalcium phosphate, Rapeseed oil, Whey protein powder, Carrot (dried), Sodium chloride, Fructooligosaccharides, Whey powder, Wheat protein, Maltodextrin, Beetroot juice, Magnesium oxide

actually.... FOS is used in horses as a pre-biotic - it encourages the growth of the correct, beneficial bacteria. It just happens to have a sweet taste which is a benefit for fussy eaters.

 

[Birker2020]

The ingredients in pink powder really dont make it a concentrated balancer! Its mainly fillers, some brewers yeast, mag ox, salt and Fructooligosaccharides which is a sweetener.

Wheat feed, Brewers' yeast, Maize, Calcium carbonate, Dicalcium phosphate, Rapeseed oil, Whey protein powder, Carrot (dried), Sodium chloride, Fructooligosaccharides, Whey powder, Wheat protein, Maltodextrin, Beetroot juice, Magnesium oxide

This really wouldnt be suitable as a balancer/supplement for a horse who was on a restricted diet.

You could almost certainly feed brewers yeast, mag ox and salt and give your horse the same benefits as pink powder but without all the crap! Just shows what good marketing will do for a supplement though!

I assume as it is advertised widely as a 'concentrated balancer' it has to have scientific research to back its claim.
As you will see from these search engine results, all the websites containing pink powder call it this.
http://www.bing.com/search?q=pink+p...&src=IE-TopResult&FORM=IETR02&conversationid=

It also proves my point about the hold that these supplement companies have over the public insomuch as people are scared to stop giving a supplement in case 'something happens'. I feel very much like this.

I have stopped giving Magic for example on both occasions and can honestly say within seven days I had a steady decline in my horses spooking behavior which improved within days of him going back on it again. At first I thought it was coincidence so a couple of months later repeated the process only to find his spookiness taking on unprecedented levels!

 

[Casey76]

I find it odd that a supplement specifically marketed to help gut issues contains whey protein and whey powder.

 

[supsup]

I assume as it is advertised widely as a 'concentrated balancer' it has to have scientific research to back its claim.
As you will see from these search engine results, all the websites containing pink powder call it this.

Actually, I don't think there are any regulations on what can be called "balancer" or "complete" or "concentrated" etc. in the world of feed manufacturing. It is not legal though to make any claims that a feed can treat medical conditions without the scientific trials to back it up (looking through the rulings of the Advertisement Standards Authority for horse-related products makes for good reading...).
The NRC "nutrient requirements for horses" publication seems to be the most comprehensive review of science to establish what the daily requirements for vits and mins are in horses, but even with that as a benchmark, there is plenty of room for feed companies to use that info in various ways (e.g., forage will provide some part of the daily requirements, so a company may want to include only part of the daily requirement of a nutrient, assuming that forage will provide the rest. They could still call that "balanced" and "complete", and could argue their case. And they wouldn't necessarily be wrong either.)
One thing the companies are required to do is to print the ingredients and an analysis on the feed tag, so IMO that is where you need to go if you really want to know what you're feeding, or want to compare products. Forget about advertisement claims.

As for whey - whey protein isolate is a very digestible form of quality protein. Protein isolate only contains the protein part of the whey, not the carbs/milk sugars, so not necessarily something that would have an adverse impact on the gut. I suspect they include it to provide essential amino acids.

 

[Casey76]

As for whey - whey protein isolate is a very digestible form of quality protein. Protein isolate only contains the protein part of the whey, not the carbs/milk sugars, so not necessarily something that would have an adverse impact on the gut. I suspect they include it to provide essential amino acids.

And if it specified whey protein isolate I wouldn't have an issue with it... well I would as I don't believe in feeding animal products to herbivores, but that's a whole other thing However as it doesn't specify that it is whey protein isolate, I would be very hesitant to use it.

 

[Leo Walker]

It also proves my point about the hold that these supplement companies have over the public insomuch as people are scared to stop giving a supplement in case 'something happens'. I feel very much like this.

I dont feel like that. I change or stop as and when I think it might be benefical. Hes a high spec mineral balancer at the minute as hes on a pretty much grass free diet, I'll probably move him to a lower spec one once hes lost enough weight and has access to grass again. I also change brand occasionally if one is cheaper or more convenient.

But I know whats in them and I know exactly why I want him to have it so theres no hold over me or worry about anything happening, well other than he really does benefit from a mineral balancer, although the lower spec one is fine normally.

Magic is pretty much all magnesium with some brewers yeast and hops and more pre-biotics. So your doubling up on some of the stuff in Pink Powder.

It might be worth sitting down and looking at exactly what your feeding, then giving him a diet overhaul. You could feed what you currently feeding cheaper and without all the crap in it