Supplements for energy?

[AmeliaA]

Just booked a riding holiday for next year, I’m planning on doing quite a lot of riding over the 3 days I’m there but a bit worried my lazy and opinionated cob will have given up by end.

Can anyone suggest feeding that will help him recover from the increase in work and give him a bit of energy without blowing him up? I had a look at the ScienceSupplement energy syrine but any recommendations welcome.

(He is fit enough, ((sometimes he stomps and races his way around a 3 hour,11 mile ride and other days he can’t be bothered to do 2 miles)) but I’ll never have enough time to get him regularly ridden as much as I want to on the holiday)

TIA!

 

[stangs]

Oats?

 

[AmeliaA]

Oats?

I always thought oats sent them loopy! Although probably not a bad idea as less sugar for the fatty. How much would you feed?

 

[stangs]

I always thought oats sent them loopy! Although probably not a bad idea as less sugar for the fatty. How much would you feed?

Some horses can be sensitive to oats, which sends them mad, but it depends on the horse. I don't think there's a hard and fast rule to know which horse will be affected by them badly without trying them yourself.

Presuming you've got a normal sized cob, I don't think you'd need more than a handful of oats, but best to build up slowly until you think he's getting enough energy. They are still high in starch so you do have to be careful with how much you're giving to a good doer.

 

[JBM]

My girl went on ironXcell for awhile on vet suggestion after a liver flush and that defo gave her energy

 

[Cortez]

My girl went on ironXcell for awhile on vet suggestion after a liver flush and that defo gave her energy

Now that DOES send some loopy. If the horse is getting enough energy from his feed (i.e. is neither too thin nor too fat) and is fit, then possibly adding in some faster work could just give him a little edge.

 

[Widgeon]

Some horses can be sensitive to oats, which sends them mad, but it depends on the horse. I don't think there's a hard and fast rule to know which horse will be affected by them badly without trying them yourself.

Presuming you've got a normal sized cob, I don't think you'd need more than a handful of oats, but best to build up slowly until you think he's getting enough energy. They are still high in starch so you do have to be careful with how much you're giving to a good doer.

I like oats too, my good doer gets some oats as his breakfast and they work well for giving him the energy he need for long hacks (15 miles ish) without getting fat or silly. Doesn't fizz him up at all. So well worth a try.

 

[AmeliaA]

Now that DOES send some loopy. If the horse is getting enough energy from his feed (i.e. is neither too thin nor too fat) and is fit, then possibly adding in some faster work could just give him a little edge.

Unfortunately not many opportunities for fast work near us, which is what I think will be the killer on holiday. He’s fit enough for handle it but will obviously get tired and isn’t hugely motivated at the best of times lol. I might be wrong, he might be super forward because it’s somewhere new though!

 

[AmeliaA]

I like oats too, my good doer gets some oats as his breakfast and they work well for giving him the energy he need for long hacks (15 miles ish) without getting fat or silly. Doesn't fizz him up at all. So well worth a try.

That’s handy to know thank you - he is a little overweight now and hopefully I can use the winter off the grass to slim him down, but didn’t want to make him fat with oats on holiday but at the same time don’t want to be riding a blackpool donkey lol

 

[Cortez]

That’s handy to know thank you - he is a little overweight now and hopefully I can use the winter off the grass to slim him down, but didn’t want to make him fat with oats on holiday but at the same time don’t want to be riding a blackpool donkey lol

Ah, I thought you said he was fit? If he's overweight then he needs to be fitter.

 

[AmeliaA]

Ah, I thought you said he was fit? If he's overweight then he needs to be fitter.

Won’t be overweight after winter, it’s not until April! Impossible to keep a little chunk off him in the summer even with restricted and muzzle - he’s not fat just very slightly over what I like

 

[NOISYGIRL2]

I would increase workload and stamina before the holiday, he would need to be fit/fitter for the increase in work otherwise it wouldn't be fair

 

[Leah3horses]

Have you considered testing him for PSSM 1 and 2? Many horses, cobs in particular are labelled as 'lazy/ unwilling ' etc due to PSSM. I'm a Senior Vet Nurse currently working with Liverpool Vet School on a PSSM research project. Cob types are currently coming in with very high positives for PSSM 1 and 2, of the most recent 100 tests in , 70% of cob types tested had PSSM 1. 30% of those also had a PSSM 2 variant. 20% had 2 or more PSSM2 variants. Fluctuating performance is often the only sign of PSSM in mature horses.

 

[outinthefens88]

Sideways comment on this.... 11 miles in 3 hours isn't particularly fast.... look at the speeds competitive endurance is ridden at (we regularly do 26 miles (32KM) in two and a quarter to two and a half hours target time even on hilly terrain - ie across the Derbyshire Peaks and we aren't considered particularly fast at all!). I don't own an Arab, i own a Heavy Native breed. Yes he is pretty damn fit but he's fed nothing for 'energy' per se. Some chaff, one mug of Baileys 19 balancer and half a mug of Linseed, hay and grass - that's it. Its taken a LOT of gradual training for the last year though.

All depends what you are expecting to do mileage/ terrain wise whilst you are away.

No point feeding for a sudden increase in energy if the heart/lungs/tendons/muscles aren't fit enough to cope as that's when injuries will happen.

If you expect to be doing three days straight riding, you will need to get both your horse and you doing three days of straight riding, built up gradually to your expected distances and speed increased incrementally before.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

If his over weight it's not helping energy levels I would work on getting him slimmer and fitter before trying energy feed, and definitely consider pssm especially as his behaviour when ridden is not consistent.

 

[Rowreach]

I think I’d be wondering why on some days he’s “willing” and others he’s not.

 

[Exasperated]

Have you considered testing him for PSSM 1 and 2? Many horses, cobs in particular are labelled as 'lazy/ unwilling ' etc due to PSSM. I'm a Senior Vet Nurse currently working with Liverpool Vet School on a PSSM research project. Cob types are currently coming in with very high positives for PSSM 1 and 2, of the most recent 100 tests in , 70% of cob types tested had PSSM 1. 30% of those also had a PSSM 2 variant. 20% had 2 or more PSSM2 variants. Fluctuating performance is often the only sign of PSSM in mature horses.

So relieved to see a UK vet school finally researching PSSM 2 genetic 'variants'.
Please, please update all our vets, all our breeders, about this devastating condition.
Just had a lovely young Section D mare destroyed, believe me when I say DEVASTATING.

 

[SEL]

Have you considered testing him for PSSM 1 and 2? Many horses, cobs in particular are labelled as 'lazy/ unwilling ' etc due to PSSM. I'm a Senior Vet Nurse currently working with Liverpool Vet School on a PSSM research project. Cob types are currently coming in with very high positives for PSSM 1 and 2, of the most recent 100 tests in , 70% of cob types tested had PSSM 1. 30% of those also had a PSSM 2 variant. 20% had 2 or more PSSM2 variants. Fluctuating performance is often the only sign of PSSM in mature horses.

Are they testing the type 2 horses against the Equiseq genetic findings? Dr McGowan was very helpful back in 2015 when my Appy x draft was diagnosed type 1 but I never did manage to get her into a decent level of work and retired her at the grand old age of 11. I haven't tested her for type 2 because I wanted to see further work done on the Equiseq findings (ie why some apparently symptomatic horses aren't throwing positive biopsies that match the genetics)

 

[silv]

Give him oats every morning before the ride. I do this with my mare on hunting mornings, works a treat. Most other folks are shoving calmers down their horses at the meet lol but I am the envy of many feeding for more energy lol

 

[Exasperated]

Are they testing the type 2 horses against the Equiseq genetic findings? Dr McGowan was very helpful back in 2015 when my Appy x draft was diagnosed type 1 but I never did manage to get her into a decent level of work and retired her at the grand old age of 11. I haven't tested her for type 2 because I wanted to see further work done on the Equiseq findings (ie why some apparently symptomatic horses aren't throwing positive biopsies that match the genetics)

The biopsies aren't genetic tests and don't show anything unless the horse is 'cramping' at that particular time.
In earlier stages, or when the horse is never asked to exert itself, symptoms are often intermittent, and many PSSM symptoms can also be symptomatic of other conditions / problems, hence the raft of other investigations usually advised by vets.
Entirely logical, but also expensive, frustrating, time consuming, and means both horse and owner remain far longer without any meaningful support - if they are in fact dealing with PSSM.
Some treatments for possible other conditions are directly contra-indicated in cases of PSSM management.
The sooner you know what you are dealing with - surely for ANY equine health issue - the better your chance of managing it. PSSM can't go away, only ameliorated and 'managed' at best. Type 2 (aka MIM) is a lot more complicated than Type 1 to cope with. Good luck.

 

[alexomahony]

If he's fit enough, could you take him out bloodhounding over winter? It will help with fitness and rev him up a little bit too - and may encourage him to enjoy faster work too xx

 

[IrishMilo]

I think I’d be wondering why on some days he’s “willing” and others he’s not.

Probably the same reason why some days we feel great and others we just can't be bothered. Horses can have off / lazy days too without necessarily having a physical issue

 

[Exasperated]

Have you considered testing him for PSSM 1 and 2? Many horses, cobs in particular are labelled as 'lazy/ unwilling ' etc due to PSSM. I'm a Senior Vet Nurse currently working with Liverpool Vet School on a PSSM research project. Cob types are currently coming in with very high positives for PSSM 1 and 2, of the most recent 100 tests in , 70% of cob types tested had PSSM 1. 30% of those also had a PSSM 2 variant. 20% had 2 or more PSSM2 variants. Fluctuating performance is often the only sign of PSSM in mature horses.

Hello Leah,
Re this PSSM project which Liverpool are researching (and so pleased this is being undertaken!), is it possible to find out any more information from the university, at this stage?
We lost a lovely mare, soul-destroying, would really welcome any greater understanding of what was going on within her, how type 2 variants could have been successfully identified.
Could you indicate whether / how / where best to enquire further, at this time? I realise social media isn’t the healthiest place, will thank you in advance for any help, but understand if professionally you cannot.