Suprelorin - Implant for male dogs

[ponyparty]

Hi all - after some info about the implant for entire male dogs, Suprelorin, which inhibits testosterone, chemically neutering them.

Background: we have had a couple of incidents with our 14 month old Manchester Terrier in the last few weeks, all with entire male dogs (he gets on well with all other dogs we encounter, though has a tendency to display dominant behaviour i.e. humping).

I am loath to get him neutered at this still young age, but I cannot afford for this behaviour to become learned and want to nip it in the bud.

I am good at spotting potential problems and get him away as soon as I recognise the slow/stiff walk/tail held high - important to note that this has on all occasions been instigated by the other dog first... Apart from tonight when he was out with my boyfriend. Apparently, another (entire male) dog approached, did the "play" stance and then ran away, expecting to be chased - at which point ours just zoomed over, bowled him over and started biting, and it would seem he meant it. Apparently no growling, didn't display the typical body language (though my bf isn't really that clued up about dogs). He said they were rolling around and he couldn't really see what was happening. It sounds more like play to me, but if he says ours meant it, I have to take it as that is what happened.

I have been put off neutering for various reasons - particularly with this breed they can be nervous and highly strung, things like loud noises do make him jump but he's not a nervous dog, and he is highly dominant with others of his species - definitely no confidence issues there!

Just thought the implant might be a good way of seeing what he'd be like if we "picked his pockets"; any experience of this/advice would be greatly appreciated!

I have also messaged his breeder to ask her for advice, but she's not replied yet so have turned to you knowledgeable lot

 

[the shadster]

i used this on my 2yo GSD and it worked very well. He was quite a dominant dog and it calmed him down to a nice, trainable level. Just chilled him out really so he no longer felt the need to be quite so dominant. No side effects, no nervousness but I will say it lasts far longer than the manufacturers suggest.

 

[Leo Walker]

Mine had it, it lasted about 18 months. Worked well, zero side effects and we have never bothered to get it done again as hes fine now

 

[ponyparty]

Sorry for the delay in replying guys, I somehow missed your responses!

Yes, I've heard it lasts much longer than they say, his breeder did respond to me (she's a small animal vet nurse as well so knowledgeable) and told me about this. She said we may as well just get him neutered really, but I have decided to go for the implant first to see if this fixes the behaviour. There is also a chance we may want to stud him in future, so a temporary solution is preferable.

FrankieCob, that's what I'm hoping for - use it now and possibly not have to use again or have him neutered at all, having nipped the negative behaviour traits in the bud!

He's booked in to have it done on Friday anyway, after a consultation with our vet on Tuesday. Let you know how it goes!

 

[SusieT]

Why on earth would you want to stud a dog that is displaying behavioural problems at a young age -albeit behavioural problems that are likely to be helped by removing his equipment..

 

[Teaselmeg]

Trying Superlorin is an idea and definitely better than neutering at that age. It could be that he is going through a 'teenage' phase, it is unlikely to be dominance ( very little dog behaviour is dominance related), humping can be caused by many things and distraction training can help. If you don't see an improvement on the Superlorin, then I would find a good behaviourist to help .

 

[ponyparty]

SusieT, if he matures into a balanced adult dog, then why on earth not?

This may just be a blip as he is still in adolescence, his hormones are all over the place. Generally, 99% of the time, he is good as gold. There have abeen a few little incidents and I want to nip it in the bud before it becomes a learned behaviour. He is a Manchester Terrier, a native breed small in number, and therefore it is necessary not to overbreed from too few bloodlines. That is why I may consider it, sometime in the future, if these issues are resolved. I am not saying I definitely WILL stud him, I don't even know at this point how desirable his bloodlines are, so a lot of homework to do on that before making any decision. And I would contact the breed Club for info if I were to start considering it seriously, rather than this forum...


Teaselmeg - definitely agree with you there re: training, once we've got the implant in place we'll be going back to "school" with him on more obedience training, hoping he'll be able to focus a bit more, and our training club are really good with helping to address behavioural issues, so if the humping persists we will deffo seek their advice. He is absolutely golden with the majority of dogs, but it only takes one more severe incident to cause lasting damage (physical or psychological) so really want to get this sorted.

He has always been a fairly dominant dog, since puppyhood. When we first met him at 3 weeks old he was the one climbing on top of the other pups, and when we chose him at 7 weeks old his behaviour within the litter and with us handling him did show that he would have a more dominant personality. I showed our trainer a video of us handling him (playing, picking up, turning him on his back), and us handling another 2 of the litter - she told us to go for one of the others, but he was so tiny compared to the rest I didn't think he'd make the grade for showing (which was our plan for him - his ears are still all over the place at the moment though). Frank was second in preference (the other one was a right wriggler and nipper!), so we chose our Frank and decided we would live with the consequences!

 

[SusieT]

He's 14 months old now - the behaviours he's shown are his natural tendancies - you should only breed from dogs with exceptional temperment, i.e. not showing very dominant behaviours. Manchester terriers can be little brats because somewhere along the line several people have decided to ignore temperment to breed them. Don't be one of those people - if you find it difficult to manage him, how do you think a novice owner would manage his current traits..

 

[ponyparty]

Observations of changes in behaviour as a result of Frank having this implant:

Positives:
- His behaviour around other dogs is markedly improved - he does not go running up to them like an arrow from a bow, he will wait for a command from me to let him approach them, and when he does approach them he isn't really that interested and will come away again after a cursory sniff.
- If we come across any of the dogs that he has previously had an altercation with, his hackles go up (he hasn't forgotten!) but he will just walk past rather than make a beeline for them.
- And the humping has stopped!

Negatives:
- Frank is definitely more nervous now - for example, he has developed a fear of anyone unloading the dishwasher, putting saucepans away (!) presume because it is a loud clanky noise and he doesn't like it? There haven't been any traumatic occurrences with saucepans. I didn't have a dishwasher when he was a puppy so it's a recent thing he's had to get used to, however still he did see me putting saucepans away and didn't have a problem with it so... can only assume it is due to the lack of testosterone literally giving him the "balls" to cope with it..!
- He seems more nervous around strangers, so if they approach him he will shrink away with tail between legs - he quickly overcomes this but he wasn't at all like that before, he is definitely less confident.

We started our KC Good Citizen Bronze course last night, I decided that getting him back into training, new situations, new people, new dogs etc would be beneficial for him.

When the implant wears off, I'll try and remember to update again as might be useful to anyone considering it in future.

I have decided that I won't be studding him out, so will definitely consider neutering once the implant wears off - will see what his behaviour is like. In an ideal world, when the implant wears off he will lose the nervousness, but the negative behaviours won't return, and I won't need to have him neutered. In reality, I'm sure this won't happen haha so we shall see!

 

[CorvusCorax]

What age is he? The environmental sensitivities may be genetic and are now materialising with maturity.
Given the age I just estimated him at, it's probably more likely to be that.

 

[ponyparty]

He's nearly 18 months.

Could be, I guess. Loss of all testosterone can also cause there to be a reduction in confidence though - some breeds or individuals more than others, of course. We'll see when it wears off, I suppose!

 

[Leo Walker]

The nervousness is more likely to be the sudden and huge drop in testosterone, which is the reason I had an implant not castration with mine. Its reversible, surgery isnt and we had been through absolutely horrific problems with separation anxiety and I really didnt want to cause big long term issues. I was lucky mine didnt noticeably become more nervous, but hes an overly confident dog anyway. However it did take "the edge" off him and allowed us to get through to him with training. It was invaluable for us in that way, in a specific set of circumstances that will probably never happen again.

I am very glad I didnt have him castrated as I felt like there was something missing from him, just his little spark, but then again, his little spark was what made him difficult :lol: Once it wore off, it slowly came back, but by that point we'd invested such a lot of time in him on training etc that it was fine.

It took well over a year for it to wear off for mine, and I think it might have been closer to 18 months in the end. He had it at 18 month ish

 

[Moobli]

Very interesting to hear the behaviour changes in Frank post the implant. In your shoes, I would not neuter but would up his training, as the behaviour he shows around other dogs can easily be avoided by having him trained to recall around strange dogs and putting him on a lead until you have passed. The sudden lack of confidence around people would be more of an issue for me and not something I would be willing to accept as part of the neutering package, especially as he was a confident personality pre the implant.

It would be very helpful if you could post again once the implant has worn off.

 

[ponyparty]

FrankieCob - thank you, that is what I suspect is more likely down to his new lack of confidence - although I can't discount what CorvusCorax said either, just seems a lot more likely to be the dip in testosterone to me. Know what you mean about the spark, though Frank has plenty of naughtiness left in him still haha more surrounding stealing food at the moment than anything else though! He is way more focused in training, it's worked miracles really in that respect.

Working GSD - you make a really valid point there; the nervousness with people is something I will definitely be working on with the help of my new trainer (she's really good and knows her stuff inside out). Nervousness around strangers is definitely not a desirable trait - it could even lead to snappiness in a situation in which he felt cornered (not that he's ever done that or shown any sign of it, but nervous/frightened dog = potential for biting).
Also the recall - I do wonder if I need to teach a whole new command for recall, while he is sans-testosterone. Will speak to my trainer about that too. He was absolutely 100% for months and then as he had hormonal surges, if he decided he wanted to go over to another dog then that was it! I had no say in the matter, due to his extreme and uncontrollable excitement. So maybe worth going back to basics with that one to make sure it's really solid.

As an aside... My vet explained to me that testosterone is produced in 2 locations: the brain, and the testes. The implant will inhibit production at both sites indiscriminately; whereas neutering only inhibits (by removal of) the testes site; therefore a neutered dog will still be producing testosterone, albeit at much lower levels, in the brain. I wonder if the nervousness wouldn't have been as bad, if he were to have simply had the chop, as there would still be a bit of testosterone being produced... Impossible to tell and not really something I wanted to risk at the time (and am glad that I didn't!).