Surely this isn't right..... :(

It's worth keeping in mind that gaits other than the typical trot have always been present and "naturally-occurring" in horses. WE chose to favour the trotting horse partly due to fad and partly because trotting horses typically canter more easily, making them useful for hunting, jumping etc (in fact recent research shows a gene associated with pacing inhibits the canter - though pacing is not the same as an ambling gait such as the Paso's). In the past, gaited horses were valued highly because they are so smooth to ride - and the Paso's gait traces right back to the Spanish Jennets taken to the Americas.

For anyone who doesn't know much about gaited horses, I think this is a nice set of articles: https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&r...06r1bftlTn9raWLRw&sig2=Y8TyF-3PsP3XuQX3u9Tf8Q They are aimed at Saddlebreds but mention several other breeds, including Paso Finos. When you see how far back such gaits go, you may see things differently.
 
Ladyinred, there are certain types of horses I find ugly too, others I wouldn't give others field space to, so I respect your opinion, freedom of speech and all that.

We must each speak as we find, and therefore probably ruffle some feathers, somewhere, so we must occasionally expect the Momma Bear to rear her head :D

Personally, I have never met a nasty Paso, they have all been kind, gentle creatures with great respect and affection for people.
Like Arabians (which I have owned for over 25 years, and still do) they are very sensitive, they will take a 6 year old novice on a trail ride, and an hour later be all fire and corto with an experienced jockey.

They aren't for everyone, for which they would be thankful :D
They do look different - there is no getting around it, when you are used to trotting horses, Pasos look like Duracell ponies , although, like Icies they are horses, not ponies regardless of actual height .

They are also generally small from 13-15h, and, like tbs and Arabians they come in various shapes and sizes depending on bloodlines, temperament varies too, you get your lazy bods and then you get the high brios (on a temperament scale of 1 - 10. 1 being dead, 5 being average, 10 being a 'bit' goey ;)

I love my pasos, my hips and knees no longer ache since I started riding gaited horses, so for me, I get the whole package, pain free riding, and spunky little horses to gallop about on, I am having my second childhood, riding is fun again.

They jump too :) This is one of my mares, not me on board
11150645_10152739445062793_3913101909296323315_n.jpg
 
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Barnacle, what a fascinating article! I think when gaited horses are mentioned the artificially exaggerated gaits of the 'big lick' horses and the cruel methods used to produce this spring to mind first, which is a shame. But having said that, I rode a Tennessee Walker once who had not been subject to any questionable practices, the gait was the one he was born with, and he was, in temperament, very like the typical Hackney ie sensitive, clever and enthusiastic! Gorgeous ride and a sweet boy, I would have loved to smuggle him into my suitcase! I'd love to try a Paso Fino! alas, I have never so much as seen one in the flesh.
 
Personally, gaited horses aren't my thing, but then Thoroughbreds and Appaloosa's aren't either! I do however appreciate them as a breed and think gaited horses are so interesting and I'd love to ride one, especially an Icelandic.

I think people need to understand the difference between a natural gaited horse & one who has been forced to exaggerate its paces.

It is ok to not really like a breed, it's the same as not liking the same type of man, we all want different qualities in our partners be they equine or human! ;)
 
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Ladyinred said:
I know it's 'natural' but the amount of concussion to the feet and legs must be many times that of a normal horse covering the same distance.

I find it ugly and unnatural.
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I doubt if this is true. Concussion is related to how high the horse lifts its feet off the floor before putting them down again, and in this pace there is minimal lift. I suspect that the increase in footbeats is more than compensated for by the reduction in concussion on each beat. And that's before even considering how much less effort on the rest of the body it is for the horse to cover the ground in this way.

It certainly isn't unnatural. You're entitled to find it ugly :)
 
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Having Icies all I can say is that people who have never ridden gaited horses just don't know what they are missing.
 
Enfys said:
Ladyinred, there are certain types of horses I find ugly too, others I wouldn't give others field space to, so I respect your opinion, freedom of speech and all that.

We must each speak as we find, and therefore probably ruffle some feathers, somewhere, so we must occasionally expect the Momma Bear to rear her head :D

Personally, I have never met a nasty Paso, they have all been kind, gentle creatures with great respect and affection for people.
Like Arabians (which I have owned for over 25 years, and still do) they are very sensitive, they will take a 6 year old novice on a trail ride, and an hour later be all fire and corto with an experienced jockey.

They aren't for everyone, for which they would be thankful :D
They do look different - there is no getting around it, when you are used to trotting horses, Pasos look like Duracell ponies , although, like Icies they are horses, not ponies regardless of actual height .

They are also generally small from 13-15h, and, like tbs and Arabians they come in various shapes and sizes depending on bloodlines, temperament varies too, you get your lazy bods and then you get the high brios (on a temperament scale of 1 - 10. 1 being dead, 5 being average, 10 being a 'bit' goey ;)

I love my pasos, my hips and knees no longer ache since I started riding gaited horses, so for me, I get the whole package, pain free riding, and spunky little horses to gallop about on, I am having my second childhood, riding is fun again.

They jump too :) This is one of my mares, not me on board
11150645_10152739445062793_3913101909296323315_n.jpg
Click to expand...

Enfys, you obviously know this breed well so would you mind a few questions?

Firstly let me make it clear that I think they are beautiful horses and it's only their gait I dislike. I have heard before they have amazing temperaments and I believe are often used as therapy horses because of that.

However.. back to the elephant in the room. The gait. Firstly, do they also have a 'normal' range of movement; judging by your picture I think they must have. But, is there a normal two-beat trot and three beat canter?

Secondly, how do their feet and limbs stand up to what appears to be a terrific amount of concussion?

Thirdly.. and I suspect this will be the hardest to answer.. but .. why?? What is the purpose of this gait? What was it originally used for? And how much has the natural gait been changed by selective breeding to the gait we see in the first video?

I am not trying to be contentious, but since you are the first person I have 'met' who has personal experience of the breed I really would love to know!
 
Faracat said:
Lots of hysteria and ignorance. Look at the video on here which explains it very well.

http://www.pfha.org/the-breed/gaits

ETA -
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There is a strain of mutant goat which faints instantly on becoming excited. It's 'natural' but actually a mutation which results in excitement (probably epinephrine release) becoming linked with this seizure-like fainting behaviour.
Anyway I'm no expert and it's an entirely unproven theory of my mind but I think this 'natural' gait is a it like those dropping goats... Discuss
 
Ladyinred said:
I know it's 'natural' but the amount of concussion to the feet and legs must be many times that of a normal horse covering the same distance.

I find it ugly and unnatural.
Click to expand...

I don't think they do it for miles! This is no different to the extreme collection of piaffe/passage. I'm also inclined to agree with ycmb about the concussion, this is small movement, much less concussion than a stompy welsh trot.

Sometimes I am amazed at what HHO can be appalled by, this is nothing like big lick walkers!

The only think I don't like about pasos is I don't think some of their tail sets are quite as natural :p.
 
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Hjpia said:
Agreed
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And piaffe and passage and show jumping and flat and jump racing and eventing (and whatever else you expect your horse to do or enjoy watching?) they are an older breed than the TB I think? Or do you too have przewalski horses and just watch them roam?
 
No coz we train these gaits (piaffe etc) and they're performed in response to the aid. Actually I was wrong to agree to the analogy of the big lick as this is trained too, you're right. I think the fainting goats are an old breed too though. Age of breed has nothing to do with it I think - sometimes if a mutation is harmless or even beneficial it can be a permanent feature of the breed. Look at albinism for example - a mutation but carried.
It's only postulation - I'm not meaning to offend anyone! I think it's interesting.
 
I just don't see how a four beat gait can have more concussion than a two beat gait (trot). I actually think that each footfall of a four beat gait would have less concussion. The way that the back stays level also indicates this.

ETA - As there is no moment of suspension in a four beat gait, this also backs up the 'less concussion than trot' argument. :)

I suspect that a lot of people don't 'get' it simply because they are not used to it.

If we are going to ask what is the point of a four beat gait, surely we also need to ask what is the point of a two beat or three beat gait?
 
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The concussion thing...

Imagine you're a geisha, gliding across a floor with tiny fast little steps (Paso Fino). Now imagine a high-stepping military march (Welsh D). Which do you imagine having more concussion on your legs?
 
Pasos are exquisite wee horses, very sensitive and comfortable to ride with a lot of presence- mini-Iberians!. do people think that Icelandic horses are trained cruelly wrt their gaits?

It used to be way more common to have gaited horses (hundreds of years ago) for people to travel long distances -palfreys, gaited mules etc. I don't know an awful lot about them (although have ridden pasos, TWs and Icelandics) but I remember having a conversation with someone about the genetics of gaits in the different breeds.


eta have just read Barnacle's excellent post, just ignore mine!
 
That's the point- it's not a mutation!

I could train my pony all my life and he won't gallop at full tilt or passage, (we do try though!) the foals at futurity passage and TBs gallop in the field though.
 
It should be added that if the horse was going to cover a large distance in the four four beat gait, it wouldn't use the collected 'classic fino' version (as demonstrated by the horse in the facebook link), it would use the 'paso largo' version.
 
Wow! Some of you don't like anything a bit different do you?
I think these horses are quite fascinating. I'd love to ride one, just as I'd love to try an Icelandic.
 
Hjpia said:
No coz we train these gaits (piaffe etc) and they're performed in response to the aid. Actually I was wrong to agree to the analogy of the big lick as this is trained too, you're right. I think the fainting goats are an old breed too though. Age of breed has nothing to do with it I think - sometimes if a mutation is harmless or even beneficial it can be a permanent feature of the breed. Look at albinism for example - a mutation but carried.
It's only postulation - I'm not meaning to offend anyone! I think it's interesting.
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This is also performed in response to an aid, it doesn't do this all the time! Piaffe/passage is an exaggeration of a natural gait- so is this, so is big lick (albeit with a huge amount of artificial enhancements, I don't see how putting horses on platforms is anywhere near this).
 
Faracat said:
I just don't see how a four beat gait can have more concussion than a two beat gait (trot). I actually think that each footfall of a four beat gait would have less concussion. The way that the back stays level also indicates this.

ETA - As there is no moment of suspension in a four beat gait, this also backs up the 'less concussion than trot' argument. :)

I suspect that a lot of people don't 'get' it simply because they are not used to it.

If we are going to ask what is the point of a four beat gait, surely we also need to ask what is the point of a two beat or three beat gait?
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Remind me why we walk ?

I don't think talk of mutations are terribly helpful in this context.
 
ester said:
This is also performed in response to an aid, it doesn't do this all the time! Piaffe/passage is an exaggeration of a natural gait- so is this, so is big lick (albeit with a huge amount of artificial enhancements, I don't see how putting horses on platforms is anywhere near this).
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Not true Esther. It is a natural gait - these horses are all born with it but they switch into and out of it. In other words they display an 'extra gait' characteristic of the breed. No doubt they can be prompted by an aid to do it on request as it were - but they are born with the ability and display it intermittently.

The debate about gait and mutation is quite relevant actually. If you look at the work of Prof Leif Andersson of Uppsala University Sweden - they found a mutation in both copies (ie horses displaying were heterozygous therefore the mutation is recessive) of the DMRT3 gene in the genomes of all horses who display pacing. Interesting in other horses assessed within the same study which displayed extra gaits (don't know whether this included the Paso Fino or not) were found not to have abnormal copies of this gene.
Just science folks! I love it personally!
 
I think you've answered your own question with the nature article Esther and no doubt your PhD will facilitate this further. Im afraid I didn't read the whole paper and I'm on call so unlikely to do it today but My point was and still is that this is a extra gait and that extra gaits have been found to be genetically linked
 
I think you've answered your own question with the nature article and no doubt your PhD will facilitate this further. Im afraid I didn't read the whole paper and I'm on call today so unlikely to don't before tomorrow but my point was and still is that this is a extra gait and that extra gaits have been found to be genetically linked. Some are a mutation (paper) some unknown. This paso fino gait is specific to the breed; it can be performed by no other breed of horse whereas, yes passage is an exaggerated normal gait that many breeds of horse can do both naturally and through training and instruction.
 
My neighbour breeds and shows paso in Suffolk, they have a clinic coming up, every one is welcome to watch and ask questions.
 
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