Surely this isn't right..... :(

[paddy555]

Why are there so few gaited horses in the UK? They are everywhere in the Americas, but don't seem to have caught on here.

because it's been tried and it failed due to the narrow mindedness of UK people. Peruvian Paso's were brought in in the early 90's. No one, like no one was interested. Not only were they not interested in the horses they were also not even interested in knowing anything about them. They didn't understand "gaiting" and except for Icey people appeared to have no wish to learn.
I soon stopped trying to explain how a gaited horse moved to a very disinterested audience.

I used to ride my ex stud stallion in full peruvian tack (which is way different from English tack). He had so much brio that he was almost out of this world and yet no one even noticed him.

The Paso's are gaited over the sounding board so you can hear the beat of the gait. They are ridden normally otherwise. That is the way they move. The Fino's and Peruvians have different gaits but are approximately similar in how they perform. To them it is normal. You cannot train them to be normal, this is normality to them.
Some of mine could only gait. One could gait, trot on the diagonals, pace laterally and canter in 3 time. One would trot in the field but gait with a rider up.

They are very special and there is nothing like riding a gaited horse that is just about over the top with brio but still under control. You are sitting there with just about no movement on your part as they should be very smooth. This thing is going hell for leather in overdrive brio.

The peruvians had curbed bits. They were trained in 4 reins. When first broken they were ridden in a bosal which is similar to a side pull. As they progressed they went into 4 reins ie they had a bit plus the bosal and you rode in 2 sets of reins. Gradually as they progressed through training the bosal went when the horse became fully trained.

I suppose they are in fact pure spanish horses that went over with the conquistadores. They retained the Spanish temperament and manners, carriage, balance etc.

 

[paddy555]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SMLmJeszMQ

hopefully this will work. It is at the Peruvian Nat show in Lima showing how they move. The horses are probably around 14.2 and the riders normal sized. It seems to be Fino's that attract massive grotesque men sometimes.There was a documentary in part of a Michael Palin travel program of a PF being ridden in S America by a drug baron. He was 25 stone at least.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNt_uavHHJ8

 

[cobgoblin]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SMLmJeszMQ

hopefully this will work. It is at the Peruvian Nat show in Lima showing how they move. The horses are probably around 14.2 and the riders normal sized. It seems to be Fino's that attract massive grotesque men sometimes.There was a documentary in part of a Michael Palin travel program of a PF being ridden in S America by a drug baron. He was 25 stone at least.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNt_uavHHJ8

I think they look great fun, but what is that cage-like contraption hanging round their hocks?

 

[rara007]

Although a "cock" or "cocked" horse is one with a docked tail, actually..

I always assumed it referred to a driving cock horse- one you hire to get your team up the hill.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

because it's been tried and it failed due to the narrow mindedness of UK people. Peruvian Paso's were brought in in the early 90's. No one, like no one was interested. Not only were they not interested in the horses they were also not even interested in knowing anything about them. They didn't understand "gaiting" and except for Icey people appeared to have no wish to learn.

What a damn shame.

 

[ester]

I remember seeing one at a jousting demo in the new forest circa 1993. They had 2 falabellas too!

 

[ycbm]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SMLmJeszMQ

hopefully this will work. It is at the Peruvian Nat show in Lima showing how they move. The horses are probably around 14.2 and the riders normal sized. It seems to be Fino's that attract massive grotesque men sometimes.There was a documentary in part of a Michael Palin travel program of a PF being ridden in S America by a drug baron. He was 25 stone at least.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNt_uavHHJ8

I love the winner, he looks completely natural. The others look like they are being bred and trained for higher and higher knee action, and more and more 'scuttle' (for want of a better word) behind and I would be concerned about where the breed is going if that continues.

I'm finding it very interesting to compare the 'in an outline, for us or them?', thread and this one. Does anyone know about the working longevity of these little fellas?

 

[Cortez]

Well, I've ridden a Peruvian stallion that was 25 and went like the clappers and was about 14 hands (in South America).

 

[ozpoz]

Thanks, really interesting link. : ) I love seeing something new.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SMLmJeszMQ

hopefully this will work. It is at the Peruvian Nat show in Lima showing how they move. The horses are probably around 14.2 and the riders normal sized. It seems to be Fino's that attract massive grotesque men sometimes.There was a documentary in part of a Michael Palin travel program of a PF being ridden in S America by a drug baron. He was 25 stone at least.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNt_uavHHJ8

 

[paddy555]

Well, I've ridden a Peruvian stallion that was 25 and went like the clappers and was about 14 hands (in South America).

and I bet you enjoyed every minute of it!!

 

[paddy555]

I love the winner, he looks completely natural. The others look like they are being bred and trained for higher and higher knee action, and more and more 'scuttle' (for want of a better word) behind and I would be concerned about where the breed is going if that continues.

no they are not. Different lines of the breed simply have different action just as in any breed.The link below explains "termino" the front leg action. It is natural, some have more termino than others. Unlike Tennessee Walkers who are artificially trained with shoes etc to produce more exagerated leg action PP's aren't. I think they are all shown unshod anyway. If you watch the video you will see it would be very difficult to train to exagerate termino. It comes from the shoulders, from the looseness and fluidity of the shoulders. A horse with good termino (front leg action) would be a naturally well gaited horse.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9eUitupQwao

Cobgoblin, the cage contraption is traditional Peruvian tack. They have a crupper and a large leather tail cover on top of the tail. They then have leather breeching (as in carriage horses) round behind their hind legs which fastens on the side of saddle.
It is all very ornate, hand carved, silver on the show bridle and very decorative. (the show tack) They don't need this sort of tack to gait, they will do that naturally bareback with a neck ring, it just happens to be the traditional tack. These horses were ranch horses in Peru and also owned by the wealthy estancia owners so probably status symbols etc. They came from a background of Spain and aristocracy so luxury and money and quality etc all went into the tack.

 

[paddy555]

just for a bit of fun this is what the well dressed Peruvian Paso will be wearing!!!



http://www.supergait.com/tack

 

[DressageCob]

When I lived in Peru I rode these horses frequently. Beautiful animals.

Most of the tack is for show. It's ornate but not as heavy as it looks. Generally riding at home you wouldn't bother with all of that.

I worked behind the scenes at that show in 2008 (I think it was that year). The horses were treated like princes. They weren't beaten up outside and they didn't have any nasty contraptions put on them. There's great pride in these horses and they are treated with the utmost respect.

The oldest working paso peruano I rode was 35. He was called Tupac (After the revolutionary, not the rapper) and was 14hh of pure muscle. He was beautiful and graceful. He died aged 40 and worked up to 39. They had others who were in their late 20s and early 30s, still in work. That yard had never had a horse with a tendon issue, but that might just be coincidence.

I don't understand all the people saying this paso corto is unnatural. It's completely the opposite. I knew a dealer in Chaclacayo who refused to sell to anyone looking for a pure leisure horse. This was after he had a run of people wanting to return the pasos he'd sold them because they kept doing their natural additional gaits and the owners couldn't work out how to make them move "like a proper horse"
Another woman phoned me to say that her foal was having a seizure...turned out just to be doing a natural gait around the field

 

[ycbm]

This is really interesting! I'm unconvinced that the requirement of horse working in 'an outline' really is the most effective way of them moving. And I'm getting really concerned about the number of diagnoses of hind leg and sacroiliac issues that seem to be happening. The age of some of these little gaited horses, who move with their heads high and faces well in front of vertical, certainly seems to suggest that there's more than one way to skin a cat (where DID that expression come from!)

I'd love to ride one.

 

[Embo]

just for a bit of fun this is what the well dressed Peruvian Paso will be wearing!!!



http://www.supergait.com/tack

That saddle is amazing! That detail carved into the leather! Wow!

Have seen the video of the foal many times and it really makes me smile - so cute.

I think gaited horses are fascinating. I would love to ride one of each!

 

[kez81]

Just had a quick read through the thread so not taken in all details but as I understand it this admired gait is caused by a mutation?

If a foal (as in the video) moves this way naturally, can it be taught 'normal' movement?

Yes, these foals can walk and trot just same as any other, they just choose to use this gait when it suits them (or when asked to when traines as riding horses). Some of them find it difficult to do the modern canter through. I say modern as in dressage style, collected and rounded. They will canter quite happily in their natural outline though which is typical of a lot of horses at liberty, with the head low and long. (I might not be explaining canter well, just google look at wild mustangs, step ponies etc and compare to trained ridng horse)

I really can't see the attraction with this whatsoever but a minority like it very much. As for the vids posted, they really weren't enjoyable for me for many reasons.
The attraction is the same as any other feature of a horse, it started of as practical (for working) and then became desirable for pleasure or showing and as such, has not been bred out in countries where the trait is required.

I just don't see the point of encouraging this type of mutated movement. I see it as a novelty the breed developed, breeders gave the gait a specific name to justify it as 'normal' and as such, some people admire the abnormality. I do not see it as a positive mutation as what natural purpose does it serve?
It is not mutated movement, it is natural to many of the "old" breeds. It is desirable as it is very energy efficient and comfortable to ride over long distance making gaited breeds quite suitable to endurance and as working horses. Many nomadic people for example, prize gaited horses because of this. Gaited movement is something we have bred out of many of our more modern breeds (particularly in Europe) as our riding needs have changed and the gaits were not needed/desired for the type of work our horses do. Its our modern horses therfore, that are the mutations!
Sadly there will always be cases where people will pervert this by deliberately breeding for over exaggeration of a desired trait, whether a gaited walk, dished face, high trot etc, just as there will probably always be a***holes who use disgusting training methods to do the same thing.
It's certainly not for me, I don't like it at all no matter the reasons behind it.
Each to their own!

Nothing against Paso Finos, just that unnatural gait.

Again its not unnatural at all. Just different to what most of us are now used to.

 

[kez81]

Oh ******, my text was supposed to appear separate to yours Illusion100, to make it easier to read, damn computer!

 

[ycbm]

Again its not unnatural at all. Just different to what most of us are now used to.

I understand that the pace is natural, and as I've said above I think it is probably very efficient. But there is a difference between it being a natural pace and selective breeding to exaggerate the natural pace, which can be taken to extremes (Arab dished faces - also natural, now freakshow?) Some of the show horses (not the winner, he was lovely) did look as though that might be happening.

 

[cobgoblin]

If Pasos have three gaited paces and the ordinary paces of walk, trot, canter etc. how easy is it to swap between gaited and non gaited? Is there an entirely different set of aids? Or is it a matter of collection?

 

[Meowy Catkin]

I understand that the pace is natural, and as I've said above I think it is probably very efficient. But there is a difference between it being a natural pace and selective breeding to exaggerate the natural pace, which can be taken to extremes (Arab dished faces - also natural, now freakshow?) Some of the show horses (not the winner, he was lovely) did look as though that might be happening.

I didn't see a freakshow at all. I think that you are looking for problems where there aren't any.

I did wonder if arab head shape would be mentioned on this thread. *le sigh*

 

[Cortez]

I understand that the pace is natural, and as I've said above I think it is probably very efficient. But there is a difference between it being a natural pace and selective breeding to exaggerate the natural pace, which can be taken to extremes (Arab dished faces - also natural, now freakshow?) Some of the show horses (not the winner, he was lovely) did look as though that might be happening.

I think you are looking for sinister motives which are not there at all. Horses have always been selected for traits which we deem desireable, be that movement, conformation, colour or whatever. Gaited horses have been around since the very beginning (certainly longer than our present fancied sports horses), they've always moved that way and there is nothing artificial about them. The training, on the other hand, is what enhances the movements, just as with modern dressage.

 

[paddy555]

If Pasos have three gaited paces and the ordinary paces of walk, trot, canter etc. how easy is it to swap between gaited and non gaited? Is there an entirely different set of aids? Or is it a matter of collection?

they don't. One of mine could also trot and canter but I don't think that would have been thought particularly desirable. Riders wouldn't choose to move out of the gaits mine just happened to be very well established in them so it was a bit of fun sometimes to play with him.

A paso is a gaited horse unlike perhaps an Icey who can move between gaited and non gaited. If you have a paso you would expect to gait all the time. That is possibly why people in the UK don't like them as they would not be suitable for cantering around a ring and jumping for example.

As for being natural if you had spent all your life living somewhere like Peru and had been brought up riding and training gaited horses and you then moved to England. You went for your first ride on say a warmblood (or similar) and it started trotting. You would think WFT as it hopped from one pair of diagonals to the other. You would be told sometimes you had to be rising when one front leg went forward and then sometimes you had to change the diagonal. All the time whilst you were bouncing around in the saddle trying to work out how the hell to rise in time with the horse at all. If you were a gentleman you may well be thinking "ouch!!!" You would be remembering your time at home when you sat there like a king and the horse just moved smoothly.

HelenAlbert, interesting comments. Which yard produced the horses you mentioned (if you don't mind me asking)

 

[cobgoblin]

Thanks Paddy555.
I was wondering because the foals seem to move in and out of gaited very easily but the adults were only shown in gait.
Does look comfy though!

 

[fburton]

I did wonder if arab head shape would be mentioned on this thread. *le sigh*

I was going to mention it too. I don't see it as a problem unless, like many desirable traits, it is exaggerated or taken to extremes, based on the notion that if something is good then more of that something must be better. Take that too far and something beautiful risks ending up as a (sometimes grotesque) self-caricature.

 

[kez81]

I understand that the pace is natural, and as I've said above I think it is probably very efficient. But there is a difference between it being a natural pace and selective breeding to exaggerate the natural pace, which can be taken to extremes (Arab dished faces - also natural, now freakshow?) Some of the show horses (not the winner, he was lovely) did look as though that might be happening.

Which is what I said in my reply to illusion100, the post got split and my text is jumbled in with hers. Read all the quoted text you will see her questions in paragraph and my answers in paragraph below for each question.