Suspected ulcers

[Connemara24]

He has been acting differently for about a year now first started with ears back and trying bite when washing sweat off, he's quite a stressy horse so assumed it was that, then he got laminitis at the end of June last year so had limited forage as he needed to loose weight. He then started to really hate being stroked I then put it down to Box rest and him having enough of it. This behaviour is not like him at all you could normally let children lead him. He then got a bit better when he could go out for a few hours and Be in the yard for the rest of the time.

His field mate who he had been with for 17yrs passed away from suspected Grass sickness. So he's had quite a lot of stress so I put the change of Behaviour down to that as he's naturally a stressy horse. He also got very ears back with being brushed particularly between his front legs he doesn't do this any more and is fine to be brushed I just gave him treats when he wasn't putting his ears back, he's also improved with brushing since I stopped brushing him everyday, which I don't do anymore. Putting rugs on he still puts his ears back though he is better since rewarding good behaviour, he's worse when I pull it forwards or tug one of the straps, he's fine when taking it off its mainly when I'm putting it on.

I've stopped riding him for a while till I've got to the bottom of it as he was girthy and basically refused to walk forwards till I got on, he's the same as he's always been when you ride him. But when leading him to the gate he tried to nip me not in a nasty way more like he's stressed.

I suspected ulcers right at the beginning but I put it down to stress because he showed no other signs. Because he carried on being like this I thought eventually he would stop as everthing has calmed down so I thought I would try him on naf gastriaid to see if it made a difference and he improved and when he's off it even for a few days he becomes more grumpy again, he is still grumpy but not as bad as he was but there's definitely a improvement, Also he's not putting weight on like he use to he's normally a really good doer but is on more hard feed than usual for this time of year.

I was planning on getting him scoped but after reading they can colic afterwards and he is 24 Im pretty certain I'm not going to as I've lost 2 horses in the last 6 months and I can't risk losing another anytime soon unless it's necessary.

So should I speak to my vets and just treat him for ulcers with gastroguard or keep on going with gastriaid and see how he goes as he has improved. I would do anything for him. Is there any natural ways to heal ulcers? Sorry for long post if you got through it ?.
I'll happily pay for the treatment just want to know others opinions. And if you think he's got ulcers?

TIA

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

I would give him Aloe Vera juice to see if that helps. I thought my Draft mare, who had had a very 'ulcer un-friendly' diet for 9 months prior to my buying her and had also had poorly fitting tack, could have ulcers. Like you, I wasn't keen on the idea of scoping her, as she could be quite stressy under certain circumstances, so I gave her AV juice and her symptoms subsided. She needed it for the rest of her life, though. I noticed a difference in her behaviour in less than 48 hrs when I ran out in the snow. Fortunately we had some AV tablets in the house, so she got some of those to tide her over, on that occasion. I made sure we never ran out again.

 

[Connemara24]

I would give him Aloe Vera juice to see if that helps. I thought my Draft mare, who had had a very 'ulcer un-friendly' diet for 9 months prior to my buying her and had also had poorly fitting tack, could have ulcers. Like you, I wasn't keen on the idea of scoping her, as she could be quite stressy under certain circumstances, so I gave her AV juice and her symptoms subsided. She needed it for the rest of her life, though. I noticed a difference in her behaviour in less than 48 hrs when I ran out in the snow. Fortunately we had some AV tablets in the house, so she got some of those to tide her over, on that occasion. I made sure we never ran out again.

That's really helpful thanks.I'll definitely give it a go. Is there any side affects of using aloe vera?

 

[Squeak]

Agh stupid refresh glitch!!!

i give up posting

 

[Connemara24]

That's really helpful thanks.I'll definitely give it a go. Is there any side affects of using aloe vera?[/QUOTE
Sorry for all the questions, but I'm not sure whether to carry on with the gastriaid and aloe vera juice or just the AVJ thanks

 

[Connemara24]

Agh stupid refresh glitch!!!

i give up posting - speak to vet can treat without scoping

Yep I'm planning to just thought I was seek others opinions. Thanks for your reply ??

 

[Squeak]

Yep I'm planning to just thought I was seek others opinions. Thanks for your reply ??

Sorry for the given up on reply!!

As I was trying to say - You can treat without scoping but you'd run the risk of wasting your money because you could have paid for expensive un-needed treatment.

Ulcer treatment has moved forward so much that vets would be the way I'd go - you could waste a lot of time and money on supplements trying to solve it (been there done that!) and none would solve it as quickly or well as the stuff from the vets.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

That's really helpful thanks.I'll definitely give it a go. Is there any side affects of using aloe vera?

I didn't notice any side effects.

 

[MereChristmas]

My pony has recently been treated for ulcers. He had grade 2. All the vets who have seen him have told me that if ulcers are present an over-the-counter gastric supplement is insufficient for healing. Without scoping all treatment is guesswork.
I hope you can find a helpful treatment.

 

[ycbm]

. All the vets who have seen him have told me that if ulcers are present an over-the-counter gastric supplement is insufficient for healing.

This isn't entirely true and vets unfortunately do have a financial incentive to believe this. Aloe Vera juice has been shown to heal ulcers under clinical test conditions, just not as fast as omeprazole does.

It's my first port of call if I suspect an ulcery horse and as a preventative if I'm putting a horse in a stressful situation like a stable move.
.

 

[MereChristmas]

This isn't entirely true and vets unfortunately do have a financial incentive to believe this. Aloe Vera juice has been shown to heal ulcers under clinical test conditions, just not as fast as omeprazole does.

It's my first port of call if I suspect an ulcery horse and as a preventative if I'm putting a horse in a stressful situation like a stable move.
.

To clarify, the discussion with the vets was about products similar to Gastriaid as mentioned by the OP. It was suggested they may help later as support but only after healing.
I have no experience of aloe vera and it may well work. I doubt the vets considered it.

 

[I'm Dun]

Not in this study it hasnt, or at least not to an acceptable level

https://www.horsetalk.co.nz/2017/06/30/aloe-vera-horses-stomach-ulcers/

 

[ycbm]

Not in this study it hasnt, or at least not to an acceptable level

https://www.horsetalk.co.nz/2017/06/30/aloe-vera-horses-stomach-ulcers/

That study says exactly what I said, that aloe vera heals ulcers but not as well as omeprazole. The study also says that higher doses of aloe need testing, and there is a TB rehabilitation centre that I believe has considerable success with healing ulcers at 150ml 3 times a day, but I can't swear to that.

Since omeprazole/sucralfate is still phenomenally expensive, Abler is illegal, and aloe is £7 a litre, aloe might prove beneficial to an awful lot of "ulcery" horses with owners on tight budgets. At the very least it seems it can't hurt.
.

 

[Connemara24]

Thank you everyone ?

 

[Connemara24]

What aloe vera brands do you recommend? Also is aloeride any good?

 

[ycbm]

I don't know about aloeride, I buy the pure aloe juice that comes in 5 litre bottles on ebay for about £35.
.

 

[Connemara24]

I don't know about aloeride, I buy the pure aloe juice that comes in 5 litre bottles on ebay for about £35.
.

Okay great thanks

 

[Xmasha]

If you do decide to go through the vets, just ask them to do a work up first. Otherwise you could end up treating the ulcers for them not to heal only to find out the ulcers where in fact as a result of a lameness /pain. At 24 id be wondering if he had arthritic changes that may be niggling

 

[Chianti]

I don't know about aloeride, I buy the pure aloe juice that comes in 5 litre bottles on ebay for about £35.
.

Do you syringe it or add it to feed?

 

[AlpacaTeddySJ]

I’ve just been through this with one of mine - I was certain it was ulcers and had him scoped. Turned out to be hock spavin and related back pain, they scoped anyway as often low-grade continuous pain come hand in hand with ulcers but no, scope came back completely clear thankfully.

If you haven’t already, perhaps just having him looked at by a vet might show something else up that you haven’t picked up on.

 

[ycbm]

Do you syringe it or add it to feed?

I stick it in their feed, I've never had one refuse it. I think I've given it to 3 so far, I've got one on it now while he's in a stressful situation that I can't easily change for him.
.

 

[Connemara24]

If you do decide to go through the vets, just ask them to do a work up first. Otherwise you could end up treating the ulcers for them not to heal only to find out the ulcers where in fact as a result of a lameness /pain. At 24 id be wondering if he had arthritic changes that may be niggling

So would that be like a lameness work up or like a full check by a vet?
Thanks

 

[Xmasha]

So would that be like a lameness work up or like a full check by a vet?
Thanks

id have a chat with your vet, explain your concerns. But id definitely start with a lameness check. Good luck, and i hope you get to the bottom of it.

 

[Connemara24]

T

id have a chat with your vet, explain your concerns. But id definitely start with a lameness check. Good luck, and i hope you get to the bottom of it.

Thanks you that's very kind

 

[I'm Dun]

That study says exactly what I said, that aloe vera heals ulcers but not as well as omeprazole. The study also says that higher doses of aloe need testing, and there is a TB rehabilitation centre that I believe has considerable success with healing ulcers at 150ml 3 times a day, but I can't swear to that.

Since omeprazole/sucralfate is still phenomenally expensive, Abler is illegal, and aloe is £7 a litre, aloe might prove beneficial to an awful lot of "ulcery" horses with owners on tight budgets. At the very least it seems it can't hurt.
.

Well for me 17% healed isn't a high enough percentage to offer it up as an alternative. and they said that although they could not rule out the possibility that a higher dose would have resulted in higher rates of improvement, the study dose was higher than that commonly given to horses and above that recommended by the gel manufacturer.

Nexium or esomeprazole, does work and is not expensive. There have been studies showing it to be more effective than gastroguard. Thats probably a better place to start.

 

[Cecilrides]

Just to add, the treatment for ulcers is not the same depending on where the ulcers are - I had a horse with some similar symptoms to the ones you describe who turned out on a scope to have pyloric ulcers , the treatment for which is not omeprazole but rather misprostol - but we wouldn’t have known what to treat without the scope

 

[ycbm]

Just to add, the treatment for ulcers is not the same depending on where the ulcers are - I had a horse with some similar symptoms to the ones you describe who turned out on a scope to have pyloric ulcers , the treatment for which is not omeprazole but rather misprostol - but we wouldn’t have known what to treat without the scope

That's interesting. A friend's horse a year or so back was treated for pyloric ulcers with injectable omeprazole. Maybe that's why they took 2 courses to heal. .

 

[Connemara24]

Just to add, the treatment for ulcers is not the same depending on where the ulcers are - I had a horse with some similar symptoms to the ones you describe who turned out on a scope to have pyloric ulcers , the treatment for which is not omeprazole but rather misprostol - but we wouldn’t have known what to treat without the scope

Thanks that's very interesting.

 

[Cecilrides]

That's interesting. A friend's horse a year or so back was treated for pyloric ulcers with injectable omeprazole. Maybe that's why they took 2 courses to heal. .

that is also interesting. this was last year, this vet was of the view that omeprazole was not effective for pyloric ulcers- The horse had cytotec tablets in his feed for 2 weeks which was also much cheaper and less invasive than omp injections.

 

[MereChristmas]

tried to reply, given up in despair
page keeps refreshing and losing my comment