Suzy Skinnydog Recall - advice anyone?

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Hedwards

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Bit of background for any that dont know/remember, Suzy is 18month-2year old lurcher, i adopted from GRWE in April, super lovely dog, dotes on my JRT Millie and is generally lovely, however I've hit a bit of a wall training wise and I'm not sure what to do next.

I've been really trying to work hard on recall with Suzy, at home, in the garden and around at my mum's, she's brilliant. However out on walks she gets 'selective' hearing - although I realise its actually poor training on my part! She can be nervy (which I put down to heavy handling at some point in one of her previous homes before GRWE)

When I got Millie as a pup, I used long lines, and I'm happy to say Millie is brilliant, and she is off lead without a second thought whenever walking not on or near roads, but with Suzy I'm worried about using a long line due to the speed she can get too when off lead. At home she is brilliant at keeping her attention on me, but outside she kind of shuts down and ignores anything I do, no food or toys bring her out of herself, she just ambles around, plays chase with Millie, and pays only a small amount of attention to me/where I am, although will move in the same general direction as me if we're walking across a field, she never ever runs away, and does come back eventually, or if I walk to her she'll wait, but I'd really love to be able to have her off lead more, with confidence I can call her back, like I can with Millie.

So any tips, would a longline work with a skinny? what treats do you lot use? (I've tried chicken, cut up hotdogs and cheese), how can i get her to feel that being with me when out is the best thing in the world, like she seems to feel when we're at home, I do feel at the moment like I'm letting her down a bit...

Oh and I am trying to find a dog trainer at the moment, however so far I'm struggling to find one that I like and isnt too far away so any tips i can use at home until then would be great!
 
They're bred to chase down small furry things so it is in their genetics - it's not you!
Make sure she is hungry when you are working with her. Don't feed her before hand and tip the food she would have been fed into your pockets.
I would maybe incorporate clicker training into your training if you haven't already.
Out and about, in the house, in the garden, click and reward (or just reward if you don't want to use the clicker) EVERY time she comes back to you so she identifies you with getting food - even if she just mosies away and returns for a pat - give her a dog nut. But out of her daily ration.

If she is toy or ball motivated, you could try using that too, when out, tease her with it and run away like you are having the BEST time ever.
Don't get frustrated, try not to go after her or yell or grab, try and make yourself the bearer of all good things and she will be more likely to come back.

Try hide and seek/running away/walking off.

Try a whistle.

Borrow a friend or relative, get them to hold the dog, you go backwards, wind her up, wait till she is wiggling then the friend will let go and make a huge fuss over the dog when she gets to you.

I do find longlines helpful but they do get tangled and I would always remove the handloop and tie a knot in it instead so it doesn't catch on anything.
 
Well another dog certainly helps, B's recall is fab when there is another dog because he is either obsessed with the other dog or he is racing it to get tickles from the people :p
 
Thanks Both, unfortunately she really isnt food motivated, and regularly leaves her food just picking at bit out at a time over a long period, whereas Millie eats hers in one sitting now - so i did try once using her dinner on a walk, but she just wasnt in the slightest bit interested in it, dropping it most of the time, it was like hansel and grettle, Millie hoovering up all the bits dropped when we were walking back home!

She does come back to see Millie, but it doesnt seem to be drive enough when i call, even if Millie is getting loads of fuss/treats.

She just seems so shut down, almost sad. Although absolutely loves letting off steam and storming around with Millie initially. At home shes a happy go lucky dog, on the lead she is so much better (we're slowly winning at walking to heal on lead) but off lead, its like a complete shut down, I'm not worried about her buggering off, but I just want to have the same relationship with her as I have with Millie (eventually), if i do approach her she will stand and wait, or lie down, but makes no attempt to interract with me - only playing if i'm throwing a ball, and even then its because she's playing with Millie, not me.
 
I really hesitate to offer advice,(what with more experienced people here!) but as a first time numpty owner of a 18 months skinny mongrel (whippet cross), this is what has worked for me.

On the whole, he's not food or toy orientated- I went through all the treats/toys you can imagine, including raw liver (!). It works for a bit then the novelty wears off.

Anytime he looks for me/checks where I am, lots of "good boy", if he came to say hello much fuss and a bit of play. If he came to call- sweeties and more fuss. We really, really practiced the "watch me " thing as well. And the absolute always -to -be -obeyed is "wait". Before every gate, next bit of field, if he gets a bit too far away. I only need enough time to get his lead back on if I see something in the distance.

He is also a bit of a mummy's boy and worries if he can't find you. I have spent a lot of time hiding in bushes, so he has to find me. If he wants to leg it after rabbits, thats fine, but I will call him 2-3 times then leave without him. Once I've walked nearly all the way home before he caught up, but now he will appear within a minute.

I also realised how much over-used the phrase "come here" or "come along"- this has changed to a very stupid high pitched squeaky "Come!", only ever used if I mean it.

And finally my saving point is the mini space hopper from Pets at Home. Its always been his the toy he's shown the most interest in. We started going to the park for sessions of chasing Mr Squeaky, taking it out on walks etc. Suddenly I was the most interesting thing on the walk, he recalled away from other dogs, he stopped belting off after any dog he saw, he brought toys back!

Its still a work in progress, but I am reasonably happy for him to be off lead in parks, on walks round the fields etc. I still constantly scan the horizon for 'potentials' and its by no means infallible, but I think we do okay
 
Is she properly shutting down or just off hunting and is annoyed because she has to stop?

If she is shutting down then there is some reason, either that coming back means the end of fun, she is feeling too much pressure from you, so make coming back a very rewarding experience.
If she is hunting, it is in her DNA, it's what she was bred to do, don't take it personally.

If she is coming back and playing with a ball, USE IT. It would be lovely to think that all dogs love us and want to spend time with us because we are awesome and have great personalities :p but a lot of the time it is about manipulating what they want, to get the behaviour we want.

There are some great toys I saw in the shop a few weeks ago, buggered if I can remember the name, there's a pheasant and a frog and a fruitbat and a snail, all a sort of dark tweedy colour with fur and ropes and handles, they looked great, you could get a couple, could be playing with one of them and making a big deal out of it and when she comes back, she can have it, if you want her back again, bring out the other one and repeat ad nauseum, I always use a two-ball recall because in the dog's head, the fun isn't ending and the toy isn't going away, he is coming back for another ball.
 
I think you should be easier on yourself and her!:) . Establishing a relationship with a rescue takes time, especially with a dog whose history may be unknown. One of my lurchers was a nightmare to feed in the beginning but ended up being a total gannet. Raw tripe has never failed with my lurchers, mixed with a bit of cooked pasta and they are in food heaven! Some good suggestions so far regarding recall. I certainly find having a reliable dog off lead with the not so reliable dog a big help. Good luck, keep persevering and have patience:)
 
CaveCanem said:
Is she properly shutting down or just off hunting and is annoyed because she has to stop?

If she is shutting down then there is some reason, either that coming back means the end of fun, she is feeling too much pressure from you, so make coming back a very rewarding experience.
If she is hunting, it is in her DNA, it's what she was bred to do, don't take it personally.

If she is coming back and playing with a ball, USE IT. It would be lovely to think that all dogs love us and want to spend time with us because we are awesome and have great personalities :p but a lot of the time it is about manipulating what they want, to get the behaviour we want.

There are some great toys I saw in the shop a few weeks ago, buggered if I can remember the name, there's a pheasant and a frog and a fruitbat and a snail, all a sort of dark tweedy colour with fur and ropes and handles, they looked great, you could get a couple, could be playing with one of them and making a big deal out of it and when she comes back, she can have it, if you want her back again, bring out the other one and repeat ad nauseum, I always use a two-ball recall because in the dog's head, the fun isn't ending and the toy isn't going away, he is coming back for another ball.
Click to expand...

No I truely believe she's shutting down - sometimes she just stands still, and doesnt go off hunting like Millie does, just ambles around slowly, someone at some point has frightened her, this is obvious if ever there's a loud bang, or i get a broom out to sweep up, she just hits the ground and crawls along, so I wonder if something happened to her while off lead. I think i may try again with a squeaky toy (although will need to leave Millie at home otherwise she'll claim it as her own), with the ball, she doesnt come back, just closer and waits for Millie to chase it, she runs after Millie, Millie gets the ball and brings it to me, Suzy carries on with whatever she was doing.

She has never really accepted fuss readily on walks either, ie. sometimes she stays shut down even when I'm saying good girl, stroking under her chin, I get down to her level and praise her etc etc just feel so sad for her, she's such a gorgeous happy girl all the rest of the time.
 
Well first thing is - don't feel sad for her - it will reinforce whatever negative feeling she is feeling, be brisk, be bright, be positive, say 'come along now' in your own head, even if your heart is breaking and she looks like she has just taken a battering. Maybe a bit of 1-2-1 work with her would really help, she may (like one of my dogs, to her brother) even might be a bit overawed/feels overshadowed by Millie, her energy etc.
And try not to compare the behaviour of the two dogs, they're completely different breeds/types with different motivations.

And as others have said, give it time, it took about two years for me to bring my older dog right, who I suppose you could say was a rehoming job.
 
Thanks all, I'm glad i'm not doing anything completely wrong, and I'll keep trying with her, CC - yeah, time away from Millie is a good plan, what I may do is borrow my brother so they can still have their 'play' but he can take her off elsewhere while i do some work with Suzy, squeaky toy and maybe some smoked ham will work.

I'll keep everyone posted on how we get on (if anyone is interested!)

here she is, just to show her off 'cos she's a beaut!:

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and so shes not left out short stuff Millie:
a94f9b69.jpg
 
Hmm, our old dog (some form of terrier x collie I believe!) has always had 'selective hearing' and he's not at all food motivated or really that people orientated (ie he's not bothered about fussing etc). he has always been like this even as a pup - in fact when we went to get him from a puppy rescue he was the ONLY pup out of about 10 or so that, when let out i the garden to meet us, just did his own thing and, although eh said "hello" briefly, he was more interested in finding something to chase or just generally running about.

However, he is exceptionally clever and always knows where we are and actually would never be that far away but it is frustrating when they are within sight and earshot yet they choose to ignore you!! Oh, sometime he will wag his tail a little as if to say "yeah, I hear you, I'll be there in a bit". Unfortunately what actually worked with him was to get a bit mad and change the tone of our voice to a bit more angry shall i say - then he knew you really wanted him back to you and would come back. The he would get praise but he was a little swine!

We had another dog who did the whole switch off though and would just run, this lead her to running miles and out of earshot and she could never find her way home. We got numerous calls asking if we'd lost our dog! Sadly that behaviour caused her end as, even after 5 years when we thought we had cracked it she would on occasion just enter this sort of 'zone' and run after something. Unfortunately the last time she did it she went across a busy road and was hit by a car.

What DID work with her to some degree though, and even the older dog was doing the whole running away from them whooping and calling them in a very high pitched voice making it seem like you're doing something very exciting indeed - they tend to then notice you and will run towards you. Ooh, you could even arm yourself with some kind of furry toy (ie rabbit like) on a long line and run with that trailing after you if she can see it!
 
Have you got a horse, and a relatively enclosed field, the bigger the better? My lurcher finally understood the charging round, waiting for the word and coming to call when I could actually match her speed. I took out my TB on the moor and let him fast gallop. She was over the moon, at last she had a purpose, something to race alongside. She seemed to finally come out of her shell ran with almost a massive grin on her face. I suddenly could then get her to walk to heel, come when she was called and have a really good run when i wanted her to. And I was then able to translate that into normal walks. The first time I did it with her I was on a horse and my OH was on foot so he was able to be there if something went wrong. And my horse is dog proof, I had to squeal and call and make it really exciting but, once she was running alongside my horse she had her attention totally fixed on me and my horse, no chasing sheep, no chasing rabbits, completely ignores everything except the thrill of the run. I have now done this with 2 rescue lurchers and one lurcher I have had from a pup. It has worked with all 3.
Sometimes these rescue dogs just need to understand they are allowed to enjoy themselves, and running for them is pure pleasure.
 
You could try clicker training, this method is good for nervous dogs.

I have 2 sighthounds, one which never leaves my side and one who
will bugger off sharpish! I'm lucky in that I have a safe place to walk.
Open fields are a no no he'd be off searching out hares.

Good luck, there are some good suggestions given.

Another thing you can try is let her hunt with you, I'm often seen
in the middle of brambles and bushes etc, it does grab their attention!
 
Bosworth said:
Have you got a horse, and a relatively enclosed field, the bigger the better? My lurcher finally understood the charging round, waiting for the word and coming to call when I could actually match her speed. I took out my TB on the moor and let him fast gallop. She was over the moon, at last she had a purpose, something to race alongside. She seemed to finally come out of her shell ran with almost a massive grin on her face. I suddenly could then get her to walk to heel, come when she was called and have a really good run when i wanted her to. And I was then able to translate that into normal walks. The first time I did it with her I was on a horse and my OH was on foot so he was able to be there if something went wrong. And my horse is dog proof, I had to squeal and call and make it really exciting but, once she was running alongside my horse she had her attention totally fixed on me and my horse, no chasing sheep, no chasing rabbits, completely ignores everything except the thrill of the run. I have now done this with 2 rescue lurchers and one lurcher I have had from a pup. It has worked with all 3.
Sometimes these rescue dogs just need to understand they are allowed to enjoy themselves, and running for them is pure pleasure.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I do have a horse, but sadly, Suzy is incredibly nervous of the horses, i dont think she'd come anywhere near, plus the nag has had concussive lami so galloping across country is an activity for her past!
 
damn, well thats no good then, sorry :( poor Suzy, I think the key is with her speed and letting her really go for it. Could you make a lure - like they do for birds of prey and spin it on the end of a line. anything to make her run and chase, but with you in control which would get her engaged more with you. She will suddenly click. And realise you are the font of all fun :)
 
For the skinny ones, its all about the running :) (sorry, gratuitous photos!)
DSCF0360.jpg




But never ask 'em to go camping or anywhere without a sofa

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my lurcher,( who i have had from a pup) could be a little like your one and was not the slightest bit interested in food. once i got a second dog she was a bit more interested and i then started using a whistle to call both to me and ALWAYS gave a tasty reward...she now races to me if i use the whistle and is much more into treats as my newer dog is VERY food orientated. i think its much harder with a rescue lurcher and it sounds like you have made a very good start at home and just needs a bit more time to relax when out on a walk.....she is beautiful:D:D
 
Well today I decided to just do a short walk on the lead, and then did about 2 hours of 'playing' in the garden, setting up some little jumps etc and we just had lots of fun, I incorporated a sock of mine she seems to like at the moment into the games, so I can take that on our walks tomorrow to see if that helps. I'm really grateful for all the advice!

Oh she always gets a chance to have a run! This is 2 nights ago
62ef9d41.mp4


And just a cute one from tonight
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