Sweat marks don't look right under saddle?

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sam72431

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As above saddle fitter was out three weeks ago as saddle was slipping he changed some of the panels (it's a wintec) I am using wintec until she has stopped changing shape as she is only 6. This was second visit and saddle now not slipping and she does seem happier as she is type to tell me when something not right but when I take saddle off there are two parts which are completely dry I have sent pictures to saddle fitter and he said he thinks they look ok from picture but I'm just not sure? He said he is happy to come out again but I don't know if I'm just making a fuss over nothing or whether there is a problem. Here are the pictures I sent him and a picture of the numnah where you can see lighter parts as being completely dry? Thanks in advance
 
I don't think you are making a fuss. I would get the saddle fitter out again to check it over as those marks don't look normal to me. I would expect the whole panel area to be wet with sweat and certainly not two large dry patches.
Do the panels sit evenly and touch her back all along the saddle?
Maybe try riding in the saddle for 5 mins without a saddle pad and then look at the marks they left on the saddle and horses back. If it shows an even layer of dirt the whole length and width on the panels then it should be okay. If there are clean spots in similar areas to those show on your saddle pad then I would defiantly get it checked again.
 
I wouldn't be happy with those dry spots at all, it screams of the saddle being too tight in those areas.
I'd also be a wary of if the saddle pad wasn't in the centre when you put it on, or if one panel is closer to the spine than the other, as it appears to be on the pad.
 
I would not be happy with that either. The photo of the horse is not as clear, so not as worrying, but the saddle cloth clear as day shows too much pressure in one part IMO.

The horse being happy I would take into account too, but maybe the horse is relieved that the other problem is now resolved, and problems with bruising due to a tight area can take time to develop.
 
Looks to me like you are placing the saddle too far forwards and it is restricting the shoulder. The saddle should be further back and well clear of the shoulder.
 
Thank you everyone I am going to insist he comes back ASAP before any further issues arise I did think that the dry patches weren't right and was under impression that this happened due to pinching. When I saw saddle pad I did think it just wasn't right and don't think it's very clear from picture of the horse so I think I'll just give him a ring on Monday! I'm not sure whether I'm putting saddle too far forward? She doesn't have any wither and is wide just wondered what makes you think it's too far forward? As this might help :) thank you!
 
Personally i think they look ok. The saddle is clearing the spine and looks regular in the marks. The numnah will sit up a little into the grove of the saddle, so won't be totally covering the back.
 
equi said:
Personally i think they look ok. The saddle is clearing the spine and looks regular in the marks. The numnah will sit up a little into the grove of the saddle, so won't be totally covering the back.
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How do 2 totally sweatless parts under the saddle seem ok? Just because the marks are even (under the panels, not around the spine), doesn't mean they're a sign of a well fitting saddle
 
I feel that the horse might lack condition, so I would be cutting back on the schooling and up the feeding and do some more long reining and hacking for two months, to build up muscle either side of the spine.
But then that's just me: I am assuming she is not stabled 24/7
 
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She is definitely not lacking condition she is a definite good maybe touching fat on the condition score her ribs can't be seen and she has a gleaming coat with dapples she does lack muscle which has already been improved in the five months that I've owned her she has a varied work life of hacking lunging in Pessoa and schooling with jumping around every other week she loves her work and I couldn't cut back as she can't have more than a day off without turning into a cow bag! I don't really see how muscle is going to be built up by feed? She is working properly on a contact from behind not just with her head looking pretty and I have lessons with a very good instructor who really knows his business! Thanks everyone I am going to call the saddle fitter :)
 
Muscle is built by exercise obviously, what I was suggesting is that she is getting more work than is being balanced by feeding, after all that is why we use hard feed for any horse.
 
FlyingCircus said:
How do 2 totally sweatless parts under the saddle seem ok? Just because the marks are even (under the panels, not around the spine), doesn't mean they're a sign of a well fitting saddle
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I explained why. The cloth will sit up into the saddle groove not flat on the back. Ergo there will be parts not touching the horse.
 
FlyingCircus said:
How do 2 totally sweatless parts under the saddle seem ok? Just because the marks are even (under the panels, not around the spine), doesn't mean they're a sign of a well fitting saddle
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That cannot be the case here because if you look closely at the sweat marks, the numnah is dry all the way down the channel, but has a narrow line of sweat surrounding the dry area at the front and so your theory cannot be correct. It also suddenly gets sweaty half way along the saddle panels. The saddle is obviously bridging. OP, I would not be using this saddle on your horse until it is sorted. It could be that the saddle is too narrow at the front and therefore tipping back.
 
Interesting post. I am having saddle issues and have had 2 visits and reflock in 2 months. Not blaming my (excellent) saddler but my horse is 6 and new to me and has completely changed shape with a different work regime. Looking at the templates she takes, it is amazing what the difference is.

Nicking a friends treeless GP to tide us over! And dragging out my poor saddler again...
 
I'd worry if my fitter didn't think that numnah pic was indicative of an issue.

ditto faracats comment about the cair- I'm assuming he has used the shims that you can get for them that are the same size as the air bags? and making it narrower has stopped the moving but it's too tight.
 
Yes it's a cair flocked saddle he used the bag things you can get but I feel it now is like you say too narrow, he hasn't seen the numnah pic only the one of the horse which isn't quite as clear I don't think but will send numnah pic and ask him to come ASAP unfortunately I don't have the next gullet size up so I'm really hoping he can come quickly as really hard to bring back into work if I give her any time off :(
 
Oh I see what you mean with the work but honestly not the case she is on local balancer and looks really well if not too well I think it is just a lack of muscle :)
 
Clean the saddle, ride her without a pad on under Neath it and check the sweat marks, hair movement. Could be she ust needs to go up a gullet size with a slight pad in at the front if it sits a bit low.

One of mine plates up as a black but riding it doesn't fit, too narrow so he is in a blue with 4ml yellow risers in the front of the saddle and it's perfect for him.
 
You mention the horse does not have much wither, but Wintecs are made with a curved tree so I am wondering if your horse has too flat a back for the saddle, so it will either move or be too narrow at the front and never fit perfectly.
 
There is a saddle fitter round me who goes round fitting wintecs to anything and everything. Wintecs are too curvy for most of the horses she fits to, so she whacks a narrower gullet in to lift the front and stop the back from lifting up. This makes for a too narrow saddle, sweat patches like that and usually an unhappy horse eventually, with muscle wastage. Tbh, that looks like what has happened with yours, the sweat patches are oh so familiar. Good on you for not accepting it, unlike most I know - they are of the mind that they had the saddle fitter so there can't be a problem.
 
That's interesting about the curve on a wintec, what happened with this horse is that when I got her she had been ridden in a saddle that didn't fit her and the one before that didn't either so I wasn't given a saddle with her. I booked an appointment with the saddle fitter and tried to find a saddle that fitted in the mean time. She is a very funny shape with no wither and is wide as well but is also slightly wider behind the front of the saddle. I thought I had found one that fitted and was waiting on the saddle fitter to come I rode in the saddle and she seemed ok. The next day I tried to get on and she just didn't want me to at all and I am ashamed to say I did just think she was being naughty I had only had her around a week and didn't know her that well anyway she reared up luckily neither of us were hurt she was mortified I think she had pretty much never reared before and has never reared since. I then decided to wait for the saddle fitter and she had physio (she was extremely sore having probably never had a session before) and she had her teeth checked. When the saddle fitter came I had gathered quite a few saddles and he brought some too. I also had a wintec there and he said he really didn't think I should spend money on a leather saddle as she was going to change rapidly with correct work and another physio session within a few weeks he fitted the wintec and the difference was amazing she has been so happy in it. Then about a month ago it started slipping and when I got on she would wait for me to get on then walk off not in a panicky way just in what I thought was a keen to get going way (I just don't know her that well) he said that where she had changed shape it had caused the saddle to need these panels this was about three weeks ago. So panels were put in and she was back to standing until asked to move off but in last few days these sweat marks have appeared and when I rode last for first time she didn't wait until asked to move off she stopped and didn't go off as quickly as before but it is now really clear to me that she isn't happy again I presume she has just changed shape really quickly which does happen the saddle also does feel much too tight on her which it didn't a few weeks ago when he was out last and I did ride when he was here and he did look at sweat marks and there wasn't any dry patches then I am just amazed she has changed so so quickly but by looking at saddle yesterday she most definitely has it just shows that I now have to really check myself and not just think that the saddle will fit for x amount of time. Thanks :)
 
I have also found that Wintecs didn't fit my m RID mare as she was flat backed. The tree tens to be more banana shaped which rocks on flat backs.
 
I got a wintec for my girl when she was young as she would change shape so often before she was a proper grown up but although 3 saddle fitters all said it fitted her well she just didn't "feel right" in it so I got a 2nd hand Lovett and rickets and she was so much happier and more free in it, when she changed shape I got almost all my money back as once saddles are 2nd hand as long as well looked after they don't lose value much. She went through 3 saddles before she stopped changing shape and none of them have been massively expensive or lost me much money. I agree with a previous poster that said wintecs don't fit all shapes.
 
She certainly has more wither than many and I don't think has the sort of back profile where I would say a wintec absolutely wouldn't fit.
 
sam72431 said:
That's interesting about the curve on a wintec, what happened with this horse is that when I got her she had been ridden in a saddle that didn't fit her and the one before that didn't either so I wasn't given a saddle with her. I booked an appointment with the saddle fitter and tried to find a saddle that fitted in the mean time. She is a very funny shape with no wither and is wide as well but is also slightly wider behind the front of the saddle. I thought I had found one that fitted and was waiting on the saddle fitter to come I rode in the saddle and she seemed ok. The next day I tried to get on and she just didn't want me to at all and I am ashamed to say I did just think she was being naughty I had only had her around a week and didn't know her that well anyway she reared up luckily neither of us were hurt she was mortified I think she had pretty much never reared before and has never reared since. I then decided to wait for the saddle fitter and she had physio (she was extremely sore having probably never had a session before) and she had her teeth checked. When the saddle fitter came I had gathered quite a few saddles and he brought some too. I also had a wintec there and he said he really didn't think I should spend money on a leather saddle as she was going to change rapidly with correct work and another physio session within a few weeks he fitted the wintec and the difference was amazing she has been so happy in it. Then about a month ago it started slipping and when I got on she would wait for me to get on then walk off not in a panicky way just in what I thought was a keen to get going way (I just don't know her that well) he said that where she had changed shape it had caused the saddle to need these panels this was about three weeks ago. So panels were put in and she was back to standing until asked to move off but in last few days these sweat marks have appeared and when I rode last for first time she didn't wait until asked to move off she stopped and didn't go off as quickly as before but it is now really clear to me that she isn't happy again I presume she has just changed shape really quickly which does happen the saddle also does feel much too tight on her which it didn't a few weeks ago when he was out last and I did ride when he was here and he did look at sweat marks and there wasn't any dry patches then I am just amazed she has changed so so quickly but by looking at saddle yesterday she most definitely has it just shows that I now have to really check myself and not just think that the saddle will fit for x amount of time. Thanks :)
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Curious to know who your saddler is? As I had a similar issue with gullets and I was forever having saddler out and sore horses. Have moved on now.
 
I'm not sure if in same area I'm based in West Sussex? He thinks that an Albion should suit her once she has stopped changing quite as much she has expensive taste 😂
 
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