Sweat or heat bleaching the coat?!

[supernovie]

I saw there's an archived post about the possibility that sweat bleaches darker horse's coats, now I've been riding my dark bay gelding for around 3 months, starting in the middle of winter (Australian winter mind you), he was extremely under muscled from being on paddock rest for a few years, now that we're in spring and it's starting to get hot again, I've noticed the hair has turned orange in the EXACT shape of his saddle & girth? I have owned & ridden horses all my life and I've only ever seen an ill fitting saddle turn the hairs white and usually where the most pressure is being applied, however there is not ONE white hair, he does not buck or toss his head or put his ears back at any point during our riding sessions or when being saddled up, he is a little sore in his muscles (back AND bum) but I would expect him to be sore from using muscles he's not had to use in years. The saddle fit is fine, I have heard that synthetic saddles can heat up and especially those with the Cair systems in them which is what I use (Wintec), I'm wondering if anybody else has experienced anything similar? I've included a picture of him as of two days ago where you can really see the orange!

 

[rabatsa]

I know that the skin toughens up with work where the tack fits. If you wet a driving horse it can look like it is wearing harness so maybe this has something to do with it.

 

[teddypops]

It's the sun bleaching the sweaty areas due to the salt in the sweat apparently!

 

[cundlegreen]

I've had the same with my black mare, but I would also check your horse's copper intake, as in darker horses, bleaching is linked to low copper. Having had several black, or dark brown horses, this very true.

 

[supernovie]

I will do a check on his copper levels as somebody else has mentioned this, I have a photo of him from his previous owner from when he was in full work and he is almost jet black. I've just never seen this before, Australia has extremely hot summers and even in winter it gets hot, our horses sweat just standing in the paddock yet ive not seen an orange patch in the shape of the saddle before! Thanks for the replies guys, I've also had advice to try using a leather saddle and 100% cotton saddle cloths to see if it might actually be the saddle heating up and "cooking" the coat so I'm going to trial it and see if the patch goes away in a few weeks.

 

[burge]

I used to find certain washing powders had the same effect. You could try using a different one and see if that helps.

 

[ceva]

Hi, I have a picture from this time last year and my horse is jet black and shiny, but this year he is the same as your horse, and has also put up quite a bit of coat already, going to have to trace clip him next week as he sweating up all the time even when just a steady hack, not heard about the copper intake before will certainly check that out, will see what happens after I clip and he gets his rugs on, hopefully get his lovely colour back.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I will do a check on his copper levels as somebody else has mentioned this, I have a photo of him from his previous owner from when he was in full work and he is almost jet black. I've just never seen this before, Australia has extremely hot summers and even in winter it gets hot, our horses sweat just standing in the paddock yet ive not seen an orange patch in the shape of the saddle before! Thanks for the replies guys, I've also had advice to try using a leather saddle and 100% cotton saddle cloths to see if it might actually be the saddle heating up and "cooking" the coat so I'm going to trial it and see if the patch goes away in a few weeks.

Could it be dye from the saddle cloth/saddle that is staining the hair? The sun can bleach horse's hair but not normally under the saddle!

 

[sbloom]

I'm not sure that we know why this happens, but I look VERY carefully to saddles that do this, and double check the fit, possibly even a second opinion. Yes copper deficiencies lead to more coat bleaching but not specifically under the saddle and girth.

 

[supernovie]

I've tried researching the Cair systems heating up but I cannot find anything so far unless I'm typing it wrong, unfortunately where I live is very rural and we have only got the one saddle fitter, other wise I have to wait for one who happens to be travelling, or else I'd be getting 10 opinions. If it is the saddle fit it's just odd that it's turning the coat orange not white, and everywhere?! I've never seen it before. He usually wears a white saddle cloth, I've changed it to a blue cotton one. Definitely not the sun bleaching as he wears a flag rug combo at all times with the occasional nudie day. I actually found a whole article on Feed XL's facebook page https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10154957157179853&id=68118774852 which even includes a photo of a horse with the exact orange patch that my gelding has.

I am still going to look into the whole synthetic saddles and Cair systems heating up, but I've ridden in a synthetic saddle for years and I've not seen it have this kind of effect on a coat. Very puzzling!

 

[supernovie]

I used to find certain washing powders had the same effect. You could try using a different one and see if that helps.

I have also heard certain washing powders can bleach coats so I will look into using an all natural one for when I wash his saddle cloth.

 

[Cecile]

A woman I know is a hairdresser and seen as a bit of a hair guru

Was talking to her last Sat and hair colouring came up (Bit off subject but interesting)
she said if anyone ever put on a hair colour and it came out darker than expected there was lots
that could be done but the other method was to use the hair in Head and Shoulders as that would strip the
colour out of any hair

The only reason I found it interesting was because my husband bought a new type of Head and Shoulders in the supermarket
and when he used it for 48hrs after he looked like he was trying to rip his scalp off even with repeated washing with a gentle product to help

I done a search for the active ingredient which obviously he must of been sensitive to but as he doesn't colour his hair I wasn't so worried about that

 

[sbloom]

I've tried researching the Cair systems heating up but I cannot find anything so far unless I'm typing it wrong, unfortunately where I live is very rural and we have only got the one saddle fitter, other wise I have to wait for one who happens to be travelling, or else I'd be getting 10 opinions. If it is the saddle fit it's just odd that it's turning the coat orange not white, and everywhere?! I've never seen it before. He usually wears a white saddle cloth, I've changed it to a blue cotton one. Definitely not the sun bleaching as he wears a flag rug combo at all times with the occasional nudie day. I actually found a whole article on Feed XL's facebook page https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10154957157179853&id=68118774852 which even includes a photo of a horse with the exact orange patch that my gelding has.

I am still going to look into the whole synthetic saddles and Cair systems heating up, but I've ridden in a synthetic saddle for years and I've not seen it have this kind of effect on a coat. Very puzzling!

Air bags have to be airproof, therefore not breathable, therefore heat must build up more than under a leather flocked panel. I would be interested in research, but I know in the old "tombstone" gel pads there was evidence of burns, there could be so much heat generated. Sheepskin is the traditional way of reducing heat under a saddle (it's how they prevent bedsores which are not helped by heat), there are new fangled "cooling" pads but I have no idea how good they are.

 

[ester]

It is a known issue, obviously more so in hotter countries! .. it isn't just under saddles it occurs round muzzles, ears, stifles etc.

Unfortunately I can't see your picture just a photobucket message OP.

fwiw I do own a pretty sweaty beast and use wool numnahs in winter but get better results from an ecogold pad in summer.

 

[Northern]

I wouldn't sorry too much about it OP, it's likely going to be a combination of sweating underneath the saddle and his coat changing.

I would be checking the saddle fit though if you can, three months in work I would bet that his muscles have changed Whereabouts are you (QLD/WA?)? Aitkens Saddlery does regular runs through rural areas as well, you just need to find out where their nearest stop is and when they'll be there.

The synthetic saddle/cair theory does interest me though. I've always used leather saddles with flock/latex panels so can't really comment on anything I've noticed (or any friends). The flag rug will definitely keep him nice and dark coming into summer, I'm sure his orange will be history soon enough!

 

[supernovie]

I'm in far north QLD, I'll look them up and see where they travel to, when I first started riding him I had a foam pad underneath the saddle as he was very under muscled (I've included a before and after) and as he's grown muscles i've taken it away, I've measured him with the wintec gullet measurer thingo (and I do every few weeks) and he's got the right "gullet size" according to it. Our saddle fitter came to look at him this week and she was happy with the fit so after finding the article above I'm putting it down to sweat bleaching for now? Top photo June 7th bottom photo this week,
he's also wet in the bottom photo I also heard about the Cair system thing from my friend who runs a riding school, she said she changed back to leather saddles with flocking because of it!

[/URL][/IMG]

 

[supernovie]

It is a known issue, obviously more so in hotter countries! .. it isn't just under saddles it occurs round muzzles, ears, stifles etc.

Unfortunately I can't see your picture just a photobucket message OP.

fwiw I do own a pretty sweaty beast and use wool numnahs in winter but get better results from an ecogold pad in summer.

Sorry I don't know why it did that

[/URL][/IMG]

 

[ester]

It's photobucket, it basically isn't fit for use any more.

 

[supernovie]

Oh bummer it was the bees knees when I was 14 lol!

 

[supernovie]

Just an update, switched to a 100% cotton saddle pad and make sure I definetly give him a good brush before riding and hose after and now his black coat is coming through the orange slowly but surely