Swinging back quarters

[Keira 8888]

Hi guys,

hope you are all well and happy Friday!

so my latest newbie question is.... when a horse is trying it on (when they sense you are a little fearful and inexperienced) how likely is it in your experience that a horse would actually follow through with a kick?

The reason I ask is because Prince will sometimes swing his hind quarters at me if I’m asking him to do something he doesn’t want to do.

I know that I could nip this in the bud VERY quickly by reacting quickly and firmly - which I am getting better at doing. But there is always a voice in my head saying.... what if... you reprimand him and it escalates the situation!!

In general he is the sweetest calmest horse, we have made soooo much progress (thanks to my amazing trainer Angie) but when I am working with him alone I don’t think he quite has the trust in me that he does when Angie is around. So if I try to walk him in hand out of the yard to the lane he will sometimes try to spin and I am easily intimidated when I see his furry 16.2 hindquarters swinging around!

I know what I need to do. I need to be firm and gain his trust. But what I really want to know is..... do horses largely just threaten behaviour? Or can a little discipline lead to escalated behaviour?
I know this is very hard to answer as it depends on the individual horse.
To give you a little background, whenever Prince has been firmly handled he always behaves straight away and becomes a lamb.

Arghh I just need to find it within me to be that person who can step up and reprimand him without fear! Did anyone else ever feel a little bit scared when they were first starting out???

 

[misst]

You have my sympathy but no advice . I can manage smaller horses but once my daughters ones became over 16h I turned into a woose! I do think it is a confidence thing but I never quite got there because they were her horses not mine so she did all the tricky bits or helped me if I was doing them. All ours were wonderful with her and it was definitely due to the calm confident thing.
There was a small mare on one yard famous for playing up when coming in. She was very similar to another bay who was a gelding who was charming. In a storm we brought them all in and I walked the horse down the lane in hard wind and rain with no problem until the end when someone said "you're brave bringing her in". I looked and realised it wasn't the "good" gelding and nearly died of fright. The mare never put a foot wrong the whole way because I was just matter of fact and not looking for trouble I think.
I'm sure your training will help you over time.

 

[AmyMay]

It’s not always about a ‘reprimand’, sometimes a well timed ‘Oi!’ Can do the trick!

 

[ycbm]

Keira, the quarters are always on the back

You have a daughter, I think? Assuming you have a well socialised daughter, if you treat the horse just like a toddler, you'll be about right. They need boundaries and they love you for providing them.

Rule number 1 - you don't move into my space.
.

 

[ihatework]

In all honesty it’s difficult to say, it’s generally mostly timing. Sometimes a good growl can just be enough.

I won’t lie, with some horses you could escalate the situation, but I think you would have seen more serious signs by now if he were going to be the type to really have a go.

There is a saying, fake it til you make it and it’s definitely true.

But also think of it as being cautious rather than scared. Cautious keeps you safe, no shame in that.

 

[Trouper]

Did anyone else ever feel a little bit scared when they were first starting out???

All the time!! You are not alone. You are also dealing with a big, powerful animal and you cannot physically dominate them. The first principle is not to freeze and just let them carry on pratting about especially when you are leading them. Taking a firm hold and turning them in a circle sometimes gets the control back or making them back up - anything which teaches them that they don't get what they want (ie back to the field) by messing about. If they do, it will take longer. It is rare for a horse to retaliate to firm behaviour from the handler unless there is something much more serious going on with him.

Your own posture is also key to this - you need to stand tall and square on to them and speak in a firm and confident voice. They are masters at interpreting posture and mood so you need to appear confident even if you are not inside. He wants you to be firm and confident - that way he will feel he can trust you to keep him safe. No-one trusts a dithering leader - believe me, I also speak from military experience!!!

 

[paddy555]

If he was in a herd what would the herd leader do? they would be straight back at him without a moment's thought. What would Prince expect from them? if he was trying it on with the herd leader he would expect to be put immediately in his place.
you are the herd leader and he is most definitely the follower. He swings his quarters at you then you growl very aggressively, tell him in a very strong voice "get the F over" and pull him round/shove him over immediately. His thought then is that it is no good trying it on ie to challenge you as he will be very quickly and firmly put back in his place.
If you don't then if he does it once and either gets away with it or realises you are scared he will try it again. Bit of fun for him, no consequences.
If you DON'T reprimand him and stop the behaviour it will escalate the situation. If you do reprimand him he will know his place.

Everyone is scared at first. Plan what you are going to do when this or something similar happens again. Work out the plan, dialogue and actions in your mind, "big" yourself up then when it happens go straight into action. The rules are very simple, he respects your space and keeps out of it.

 

[melbournesunrise]

My 16hh gelding has a tendency to spook at random when being led between barn and field. Even though I have years of experience with horses, I still get anxious about having to lead him on days when the weather isn’t calm, as this is when he isn’t worst.

However, as you say Prince is, he’s a sweetheart and wouldn’t do anything malicious. He has a pattern of behaviour when spooking: He flinches, jumps sideways, throws his head around and turns to run away if he feels the need. But mostly, he flinches and that’s it because I don’t react, apart from maybe a small jerk on the head collar. Never enough to hurt or scare him, but enough to let him know I’m not worrying about anything and expect him to remain calm too.

It’s okay to feel cautious! On my anxious days, I use the saying “Fake it TIL you make it” (which is a phrase I hate, but it’s helpful at times) - whilst not always applicable, when you aren’t feeling brave it can be a good mantra.