Switching back people…

[My_breadbagel]

Hi there! I’m wondering if switching back people is the wisest. He was/ is cold backed but in my care he’s been doing a lot better. Since 2018 when my boy was on working livery he’s been having electro (forget what it’s called- it sends pulses through his muscles) as although he was being ridden by decent riders as he can be tricky, he was in heavy work so needed quite a lot of work. He’s been back with me since 2019 and he’s now happier and does one schooling a week, some light hacking and one or two long, hill work hacks. He’s been okay although in 2019-2020 he had a flare up due to some ridiculous saddler I hired doing a s*** job (I’ve switched to a very good one thank god!!!) and I was still using my back lady who didn’t see anything amiss. This has obviously put me off a bit…
Since changing saddlers he hasn’t had a flare up (touch wood). No bucking, bronco behaviour, etc. he’s happier, springer, and I’m trying to keep on top of his saddle fit 24/7. These days his cold backed behaviour is completely gone.
However, he last time (2021) he was sore after electros. It made me really nervous- nothing big, but he felt stiff for a week. My saddler saw him recently and recommended I get him a light work up by someone, and she didn’t see why I should use electros. She’s been absolutely awesome with helping me with him, and so I looked around and used a physio who uses holistic approach and just uses her hands. She was recommended by two or three people to me, and my horse absolutely loved the session. He was nuzzling the whole time and didn’t move a muscle. He felt amazing afterwards.
Do you think it would be wise to make this switch long term? I’ll consult my instructor, saddler and vet when I next see them, but I’m worried about the long term effects. Help?

 

[ozpoz]

I would let the horse tell you!
Personally, I switch between physio, Mctimoney chiropractor and massage as I find they are all beneficial but work on different things and I like an all round approach.

 

[Sossigpoker]

A horse with long term back pain should have a vet check and a back x-ray before you worry about saddlers and physios.
There is no such thing as "cold backed " , this term has been invented to describe a horse that is in pain or has been in pain and remembers it and anticipates it.
If your horse requires so much intervention to keep him settled, personally I wouldn't even worry about Saddles and physios without a back x-ray.

 

[ozpoz]

The horse is no longer cold backed,SP
Saddle check and physio all good, behaviour good and horse happy = I’d be disinclined to rush into expensive diagnostics for a past issue!
Qualified practitioners really help to keep your horse well and are often the first to pick up on a problem.

 

[Sossigpoker]

The horse is no longer cold backed,SP
Saddle check and physio all good, behaviour good and horse happy = I’d be disinclined to rush into expensive diagnostics for a past issue!
Qualified practitioners really help to keep your horse well and are often the first to pick up on a problem.

He was sore after some treatment only last year. To me this isn't a past issue and I would be investigating for sure.
Horses learn to cope with pain very well and not show it so a horse that intermittently shows obvious discomfort would be investigated in my care. A back x-ray is only a couple of hundred quid.

 

[ozpoz]

If the pain is gone after a change of saddle to one that fits correctly and everything is improving to the point where you have a happy horse why would you have back x rays? My horse doesn’t have any back pain, he’s well muscled and comfortable but he has more treatments than I do!?

 

[My_breadbagel]

If the pain is gone after a change of saddle to one that fits correctly and everything is improving to the point where you have a happy horse why would you have back x rays? My horse doesn’t have any back pain, he’s well muscled and comfortable but he has more treatments than I do!?

I’m in the same boat as you. I had a full vet investigation done (didn't need x rays as the saddler found the issue with a sore back and a pinching saddle!) I regularly have my horse seen to to prevent any issues arising. Since then my boy hasn’t bucked- even with excitement!

 

[My_breadbagel]

A horse with long term back pain should have a vet check and a back x-ray before you worry about saddlers and physios.
There is no such thing as "cold backed " , this term has been invented to describe a horse that is in pain or has been in pain and remembers it and anticipates it.
If your horse requires so much intervention to keep him settled, personally I wouldn't even worry about Saddles and physios without a back x-ray.

He was previously broken in roughly and so he had pain memory. This has made both of us acute to change in saddle fit and his overall wellness. While “cold backed” doesn’t really exist, his symptoms fitted the list.
The flare up was caused by a pinching saddle which caused soreness which is now resolved. After that, had a cough which made him tense (as my saddler saw…) hence the light work up. My horse is current in great shape and hasn’t exhibited any issues since.

 

[My_breadbagel]

He was sore after some treatment only last year. To me this isn't a past issue and I would be investigating for sure.
Horses learn to cope with pain very well and not show it so a horse that intermittently shows obvious discomfort would be investigated in my care. A back x-ray is only a couple of hundred quid.

Tbh sore is a stretch. He was riding absolutely fine but wasn’t as off the leg as usual. It’s also a side affect listed on disclaimers…

 

[My_breadbagel]

The horse is no longer cold backed,SP
Saddle check and physio all good, behaviour good and horse happy = I’d be disinclined to rush into expensive diagnostics for a past issue!
Qualified practitioners really help to keep your horse well and are often the first to pick up on a problem.

Thank you, I’m not going to invite a vet bill when my horse is currently in great shape… wouldn’t any horse be uncomfortable in a saddle that no longer fits?

 

[My_breadbagel]

A horse with long term back pain should have a vet check and a back x-ray before you worry about saddlers and physios.
There is no such thing as "cold backed " , this term has been invented to describe a horse that is in pain or has been in pain and remembers it and anticipates it.
If your horse requires so much intervention to keep him settled, personally I wouldn't even worry about Saddles and physios without a back x-ray.

By cold backed I also meant the occasional buck when warming up. Any other owner might have called it laziness or fresh behaviour.

 

[SEL]

I think a new professional can sometimes give a different perspective

One I had insisted on using the tens machine on a pony who hated it. New lady just does manual work and you can see the pony relax into it and she's all the better for it

 

[ycbm]

I see the following things in what you wrote which would, cumulatively, give me cause for concern. In higher but still normal levels of work he exhibited cold backed behaviour regularly. Ridden 3 to a maximum of 4 times a week he doesn't as long as his saddle fits. An electromagnetic stimulus treatment which should not have any negative effect (I've had several done with PEMF) made him stiff for a week. A saddle fitter recently saw something to cause them to tell you to get some treatment for him.

I'm with Sossigpoker, I'd be taking back x rays as a precaution. I realise that isn't what you asked, but my history is seeing 2 qualified bodyworkers miss severe kissing spines in 3 ridden horses, so I'm sorry about that but I don't want to read and run.
.

 

[Melody Grey]

I’m with the x-ray camp - a single one of those instances might give me cause to get the physio/ saddler/ body worker and then dismiss if fixed, but recurring problems suggest there might be something else going on. I’d rather look a fool when the vet tells me there’s nothing going on, than look a fool when the horse tells me there is.

Horses are so incredibly stoic, it’s their survival instinct. OH’s
Low mileage cob was diagnosed with KS just a few weeks back- vets were absolutely amazed, as was I....and he wasn’t showing half of the behaviour you’ve seen. To me it would be worth a few hundred quid to cross it off the list, you’ll easily spend that on other pros.

 

[My_breadbagel]

I see the following things in what you wrote which would, cumulatively, give me cause for concern. In higher but still normal levels of work he exhibited cold backed behaviour regularly. Ridden 3 to a maximum of 4 times a week he doesn't as long as his saddle fits. An electromagnetic stimulus treatment which should not have any negative effect (I've had several done with PEMF) made him stiff for a week. A saddle fitter recently saw something to cause them to tell you to get some treatment for him.

I'm with Sossigpoker, I'd be taking back x rays as a precaution. I realise that isn't what you asked, but my history is seeing 2 qualified bodyworkers miss severe kissing spines in 3 ridden horses, so I'm sorry about that but I don't want to read and run.
.

After the electros he was simply just a little laggy. He returned to normal after a few days, but with the other work up he felt amazing off the bat. And I think any horse will buck if it has worn a badly fitting saddle for a while…..

 

[My_breadbagel]

I’m with the x-ray camp - a single one of those instances might give me cause to get the physio/ saddler/ body worker and then dismiss if fixed, but recurring problems suggest there might be something else going on. I’d rather look a fool when the vet tells me there’s nothing going on, than look a fool when the horse tells me there is.

Horses are so incredibly stoic, it’s their survival instinct. OH’s
Low mileage cob was diagnosed with KS just a few weeks back- vets were absolutely amazed, as was I....and he wasn’t showing half of the behaviour you’ve seen. To me it would be worth a few hundred quid to cross it off the list, you’ll easily spend that on other pros.

Two bad saddle fits = a couple of bucks = kissing spine…

 

[Melody Grey]

Two bad saddle fits = a couple of bucks = kissing spine…

Wishing you the best of luck in finding a resolution, but I think you’re downplaying it? Your original post refers to cold-backed behaviour, bucking and bronco behaviour over a four year period.

 

[ycbm]

After the electros he was simply just a little laggy. He returned to normal after a few days, but with the other work up he felt amazing off the bat. And I think any horse will buck if it has worn a badly fitting saddle for a while…..

You have described a horse who over several years is not happy in work unless that work is very light. 3 or a maximum 4 days a week.

If you are happy with that carry on. If he was mine, for the sake of £3‐400, I'd have full back x rays from what you have described. But as I said, I have history of three horses stoically carrying on after failure by 2 well qualified physios to spot bad kissing spines and referring to a vet.
.

 

[Sossigpoker]

Two bad saddle fits = a couple of bucks = kissing spine…

As others have said , you have described your horse exhibiting back pain over several years and only coping with light work with a lot of interventions. This is an indication of an underlying pathology. Not necessary "kissing spine " though.
Horses can carry on being very stoic despite being in pain , and as owners we owe them to listen to them when they're trying to tell us something.

 

[ozpoz]

But that isn’t what My old warmblood said, at all.
I think you are under estimating just how much a poorly fitting saddle can affect a horse.It should be fitted to both horse and rider which is where working livery can be an issue.
I wouldn’t, personally use a pulse machine on mine. They don’t suit every horse and mine is a sensitive soul.
He was seen by an excellent vet recently for his check up who said he was in great shape. I see physio and bodyworkers, saddlefitters instructors and vets as the circle of support around your horse, not as a means for him to ‘only cope’.
If no one is picking up pain, or any sensitivity in his back, if your horse is happy in his work, no pain signs using the ridden horse pain behaviour ethogram, and you’re an appropriate weight for your horse, then something is probably right.

 

[SEL]

Wishing you the best of luck in finding a resolution, but I think you’re downplaying it? Your original post refers to cold-backed behaviour, bucking and bronco behaviour over a four year period.

I read it as those problems happened when he was on working livery. Came home, treated for a bad saddle, all been ok for ages until a recent bodywork treatment - hence question about changing bodyworker.

If that's the case then it sounds like the cause of the bucking is in the past.