Sycamore in hay field

[Flowerofthefen]

I work in a farm store that's sells herbicides.
This was a cpd literally last week. We have to ask where they are going to use it now. There will be a 100ml graze on for spot spraying.
Its too do with how long it stays in the ground, and if you poo pick, this manure cannot be sold/given to gardeners, as it will prevent root crops growing.

So it's still OK to spot spray nettles etc in grazed pasture?

 

[Britestar]

It says you can’t use it on sheep or horse fields, but can on cattle or goat.
As you say, farmers don’t tend to pick
up after cattle, but nor do they pick up after sheep?

Ok for sheep and cattle. Not for horses and goats.
Spot spraying is ok.

 

[Fieldlife]

if we have the probability of the seeds being in hay fields what about fields of straw (grain) and fields cut for grass pellets, loose grass and the various forms of alfalfa.

It’s very scary for next winters hay / Haylage!

 

[PeterNatt]

There is every chance that many of the seeds have been in the ground for some time (even years) and are now germinating. This is why it is so important to pick up all the seeds.

 

[Gloi]

FYI, you can no longer use Graze On herbicide on horse pasture.
This is a new directive in last couple of weeks.

Do you happen to know the reasoning behind this?

Seen it above, sorry.

 

[Burnttoast]

There is every chance that many of the seeds have been in the ground for some time (even years) and are now germinating. This is why it is so important to pick up all the seeds.

sycamore seeds don't persist in the seedbank - if they don't germinate they rot. They don't even keep that well in storage. The ones germinating now are last season's.

 

[HappyHollyDays]

sycamore seeds don't persist in the seedbank - if they don't germinate they rot. They don't even keep that well in storage. The ones germinating now are last season's.

If they decompose/rot does the toxin die with the seedling or does it leech into the soil?

 

[Burnttoast]

If they decompose/rot does the toxin die with the seedling or does it leech into the soil?

HGA is water soluble so it presumably leaches down through the soil profile over time. I don't think that would be a problem, but you don't want the seeds etc falling into water troughs for this reason though.

 

[HappyHollyDays]

HGA is water soluble so it presumably leaches down through the soil profile over time. I don't think that would be a problem, but you don't want the seeds etc falling into water troughs for this reason though.

Thanks, that’s really useful to know about the water troughs.

 

[Fieldlife]

sycamore seeds don't persist in the seedbank - if they don't germinate they rot. They don't even keep that well in storage. The ones germinating now are last season's.

I knew they didn’t keep but didn’t realise all the seedling growing now fell last season! When do they drop?

 

[Burnttoast]

I knew they didn’t keep but didn’t realise all the seedling growing now fell last season! When do they drop?

autumn/winter, depending on ripening conditions and weather (how windy it is)

 

[bouncing_ball]

autumn/winter, depending on ripening conditions and weather (how windy it is)

Fairly new to sycamore seed issue. Am I right in thinking the seed being eaten is the main risk. And there are two different main risk times for grazing horses.

When seed pods fall to the ground, and land in fields. This is currently happening now from some trees (unusually early) and usually happens in Autumn. For safety all seed pods should be picked up from grazing.

When missed seeds germinate in spring, want to pick up seedlings, and continue checking and picking up missed ones spring / late spring / summer etc.

I think horses are more likely to eat growing seedlings in grass than seed pods? Though not sure.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

Fairly new to sycamore seed issue. Am I right in thinking the seed being eaten is the main risk. And there are two different main risk times for grazing horses.

When seed pods fall to the ground, and land in fields. This is currently happening now from some trees (unusually early) and usually happens in Autumn. For safety all seed pods should be picked up from grazing.

When missed seeds germinate in spring, want to pick up seedlings, and continue checking and picking up missed ones spring / late spring / summer etc.

I think horses are more likely to eat growing seedlings in grass than seed pods? Though not sure.

The seedlings are more prone to be eaten than the pods as they grow where the grass is growing, I've got a sycamore in my field and I several that have taken root nearby presumably from seedlings, thing is I can chop mine down but the wood opposite me is full of them and nothing I can do about those, luckily only one edge of my field seems to get affected and I don't use the field much that the tree is in although that will be going shortly.

 

[HappyHollyDays]

I treat all year round as a threat from either seeds, seedlings or leaves. Seeds on my trees start falling from June onwards depending on the weather conditions. I collected thousands last week and have closed the track off so they can‘t access them. I then clear it once a week in the hope less will get to the seedling stage next spring. This year I mowed and collected twice before allowing the grass to grow to a decent height before they went back on it.

The horses in the next field had a lot of localised seedlings and nothing was done to get rid of them. There was enough grass that the horses didn't graze close to the fence line and all were fine.

 

[Errin Paddywack]

We had a lot of sycamore seedlings coming up in the spring after we moved the ponies to summer grazing I left them thinking I would rather deal with them when they were all sprouted so hopefully do it all in one go. Went to check on them recently and none to be found. The grass is really long under the trees so unless the sheep have singled them out to eat it isn't a case that they have grazed the area off. I will obviously keep an eye on the area where they are likely to be and will have a thorough check before the ponies go back in for the winter.

 

[expanding_horizon]

We had a lot of sycamore seedlings coming up in the spring after we moved the ponies to summer grazing I left them thinking I would rather deal with them when they were all sprouted so hopefully do it all in one go. Went to check on them recently and none to be found. The grass is really long under the trees so unless the sheep have singled them out to eat it isn't a case that they have grazed the area off. I will obviously keep an eye on the area where they are likely to be and will have a thorough check before the ponies go back in for the winter.

I think the grass will have successfully out competed them.

 

[Errin Paddywack]

I think the grass will have successfully out competed them

That is what I am hoping. Probably accounts for why we have never seen any more mature seedlings.

 

[My equine life]

Fairly new to sycamore seed issue. Am I right in thinking the seed being eaten is the main risk. And there are two different main risk times for grazing horses.

When seed pods fall to the ground, and land in fields. This is currently happening now from some trees (unusually early) and usually happens in Autumn. For safety all seed pods should be picked up from grazing.

When missed seeds germinate in spring, want to pick up seedlings, and continue checking and picking up missed ones spring / late spring / summer etc.

I think horses are more likely to eat growing seedlings in grass than seed pods? Though not sure.

Yes I think they are more likely to eat seedlings. I am picking up loads of helicopters at the mo though. We’ve had so much wind!! Ours have been tested and proven low toxicity but I still pick a poopscoopers worth up daily xx

 

[HappyHollyDays]

I’ve given in as collecting by hand was back breaking and bought myself and battery leaf blower. What a relief, it makes life so much easier and although it’s not strong enough to clear the seeds in the longer grass it makes collecting what is left far more manageable.

 

[Jambarissa]

Yes I think they are more likely to eat seedlings. I am picking up loads of helicopters at the mo though. We’ve had so much wind!! Ours have been tested and proven low toxicity but I still pick a poopscoopers worth up daily xx

Where do you get the tests done?

Our field is huge, half is flood plain and half not, going long ways the entire field. The bank in the middle is all sycamores. If we cut them down the bank would collapse, it's the root system that keeps it there. There also preservation orders on the 2 largest trees

Horses been on there for hundreds of years, every few years I'd say an older one dies of what could be poisoning, vets have never been able to say.

 

[Jambarissa]

Found it

RVC Comparative Neuromuscular Diseases Laboratory - Diagnostic Services

The comparative neuromuscular diseases laboratory offers a diagnostic histopathology service for the evaluation of equine and small animal neuromuscular disease. Tests offered include muscle biopsy histopathology for equine and small animal, lactate pyruvate ratios, polysaccharide storage...

www.rvc.ac.uk

 

[Burnttoast]

Where do you get the tests done?

Our field is huge, half is flood plain and half not, going long ways the entire field. The bank in the middle is all sycamores. If we cut them down the bank would collapse, it's the root system that keeps it there. There also preservation orders on the 2 largest trees

Horses been on there for hundreds of years, every few years I'd say an older one dies of what could be poisoning, vets have never been able to say.

You could (if you felt it was worth it) have the sycamore pollarded (by someone who knows what they're doing). It would extend their lives and reduce the chances of them coming down in high winds when older, plus reduce/eliminate seed production, as long as you get them repollarded regularly.