Sycamore poisoning?

[pistolpete]

So a pony in the field I share sadly lost his life a couple of weeks ago. No details as not mine to share but YO has now decided we absolutely must tackle the sycamore sapling issue. We have them every year but think there may be a few extra this year. Last year last year?
Anyway. Long story short we’re trying to pick over seven acres. It’s not easy!

 

[Beausmate]

I've had a lot more seedlings (not saplings - I pull them every year) this time around. I started in February and I'm still finding the odd few. I reckon I have pulled over 3000 so far and I am sick of it, but they really have to go as I don't have enough grazing to fence off anywhere. They have also been turning up in new places this year, just to really annoy me!

I look out for them when I'm poo picking. They seem to grow in groups, so if I spot one, I'll have a really good look around that area and just go from one seedling to another but you have to keep going over the same ground, as they sprout at different times. They're a flipping nightmare! I have pulled over five acres before, but that was only one tree. Got three at this yard

 

[asmp]

So a pony in the field I share sadly lost his life a couple of weeks ago. No details as not mine to share but YO has now decided we absolutely must tackle the sycamore sapling issue. We have them every year but think there may be a few extra this year. Last year last year?
Anyway. Long story short we’re trying to pick over seven acres. It’s not easy!

After a pony at our yard got sycamore poisoning (and amazingly survived) the farmer cut down the sycamore trees. Hopefully your yard owner is doing the same? You’ll still have to keep an eye out for a few years afterward.

 

[pistolpete]

She doesn’t own the field so no felling option sadly.

 

[Onemorefling]

I feel your pain! We have one field that has them, and filled 4 buckets so far. They seem to be popping up everywhere! Trying to dig out the ragwort 'rosettes' too, not fun.

 

[Exasperated]

So a pony in the field I share sadly lost his life a couple of weeks ago. No details as not mine to share but YO has now decided we absolutely must tackle the sycamore sapling issue. We have them every year but think there may be a few extra this year. Last year last year?
Anyway. Long story short we’re trying to pick over seven acres. It’s not easy!

Very sorry to hear about your pony, a friend of ours lost hers the same way, last autumn.
Wouldn’t you find it easier to spray and kill the seedlings? Either spot with knapsack, or boom if they’re endemic. If you haven’t got a herbicide ticket, over the counter SBK Brushwood Killer will do it. Then rake the deads up, or take a lawnmower with brush / collection box over the area. Oh, and kill the parent tree if not allowed to fell it.
Good luck.

 

[KikiDee]

I refrained from commenting for a while on this as it's quite a touchy subject for me and I appreciate I will be pretty biased in my views. However, if it saves one person the heartache. Do not take your chances with the b*stard things.

We had a flush of them a few years ago from neighbouring trees. Horse was grazing in a field that had horses on it for 30+ years and everyone told me "we've never had a problem". Nonetheless I hand-picked for hours. Sprayed them, collected them, mowed them and collected with a box. Put ad-lib hay out.

Horse came in at 7pm just seeming a bit 'off'. Called vet, suspected colic. I mentioned the sycamores but vet said they only really saw cases in foals and she felt it was unlikely in a well and fit horse, we treated as colic but when horse didn't respond to bute & buscopan we referred to local university hospital incase surgery was needed. Horse arrived at hospital 3 hours after initial emergency vet call-out, still bright and relatively non-symptomatic on arrival. Hospital catheterised him and were able to diagnose atypical myopathy fairly quickly (sycamore poisoning). He was placed in intensive care immediately on an IV. He spent 4 days in intensive care attempting to support him and flush the toxins and he was on an IV of opioid painkillers to try and keep him comfortable. On day 5 he deteriorated massively, we couldn't manage his pain levels anymore and his organs were shutting down, I was told his chance of survival was limited to none and I chose to PTS.

It is an absolutely horrific and agonising way for them to die and there is no treatment. Some are lucky and manage to pull through, others like in my case there is literally nothing you can do despite the best and most immediate care. It's just a lottery. There are still horses grazing the same fields and no others have been affected, we were just the unlucky ones.

 

[JenJ]

I'm so sorry @KikiDee

I'd not really heard of atypical myopathy until a user on here, Kokopelli, lost her pony to it, many years ago. Ever since then I've been paranoid about it.

(Not helped by the fact that there's a sycamore tree a few feet in front of my stables, and the seeds and leaves drop and blow in if the doors are open. I have to be VERY vigilant...)

 

[paddy555]

I refrained from commenting for a while on this as it's quite a touchy subject for me and I appreciate I will be pretty biased in my views. However, if it saves one person the heartache. Do not take your chances with the b*stard things.

We had a flush of them a few years ago from neighbouring trees. Horse was grazing in a field that had horses on it for 30+ years and everyone told me "we've never had a problem". Nonetheless I hand-picked for hours. Sprayed them, collected them, mowed them and collected with a box. Put ad-lib hay out.

Horse came in at 7pm just seeming a bit 'off'. Called vet, suspected colic. I mentioned the sycamores but vet said they only really saw cases in foals and she felt it was unlikely in a well and fit horse, we treated as colic but when horse didn't respond to bute & buscopan we referred to local university hospital incase surgery was needed. Horse arrived at hospital 3 hours after initial emergency vet call-out, still bright and relatively non-symptomatic on arrival. Hospital catheterised him and were able to diagnose atypical myopathy fairly quickly (sycamore poisoning). He was placed in intensive care immediately on an IV. He spent 4 days in intensive care attempting to support him and flush the toxins and he was on an IV of opioid painkillers to try and keep him comfortable. On day 5 he deteriorated massively, we couldn't manage his pain levels anymore and his organs were shutting down, I was told his chance of survival was limited to none and I chose to PTS.

It is an absolutely horrific and agonising way for them to die and there is no treatment. Some are lucky and manage to pull through, others like in my case there is literally nothing you can do despite the best and most immediate care. It's just a lottery. There are still horses grazing the same fields and no others have been affected, we were just the unlucky ones.

i'm so sorry

 

[KikiDee]

I'm so sorry @KikiDee

I'd not really heard of atypical myopathy until a user on here, Kokopelli, lost her pony to it, many years ago. Ever since then I've been paranoid about it.

(Not helped by the fact that there's a sycamore tree a few feet in front of my stables, and the seeds and leaves drop and blow in if the doors are open. I have to be VERY vigilant...)

I think it used to be quite rare, I'm not sure if it's changes to climate/weather that has caused more cases, saplings spreading further or the toxicity of tree's is getting worse? But it's definitely on the rise. I actually saw my vet who treated him quite recently and she was telling me it was the first case she'd ever seen in an adult horse in her whole time practicing, they always thought it was only foals who generally succumbed to it, but that summer they attended over a dozen cases. One yard the attending vet went to see one horse, and while he was there 2 others went down in the field with it. It definitely seems to be a much higher risk than it ever used to be.

 

[asmp]

A local RDA group has lost two big (not young) horses to it recently and the field they were in has been used for horses for years.

 

[JenJ]

I think it used to be quite rare, I'm not sure if it's changes to climate/weather that has caused more cases, saplings spreading further or the toxicity of tree's is getting worse? But it's definitely on the rise. I actually saw my vet who treated him quite recently and she was telling me it was the first case she'd ever seen in an adult horse in her whole time practicing, they always thought it was only foals who generally succumbed to it, but that summer they attended over a dozen. One yard the attending vet went to see one horse, and while he was there 2 others went down in the field with it. It definitely seems to be a much higher risk than it ever used to be.

I think last year was a mast year for sycamore, and I certainly heard more about AM than previously. And I guess now's the time of year where we'll be seeing a lot more saplings coming up from the excessive number of seeds last year

 

[KikiDee]

I think last year was a mast year for sycamore, and I certainly heard more about AM than previously. And I guess now's the time of year where we'll be seeing a lot more saplings coming up from the excessive number of seeds last year

I lost mine 3 years ago and it definitely seemed to be a bad year for it, but each year since I keep seeing more and more cases shared. I'd literally never heard of anyone losing a horse to it before.

I also believe many horses die from it undiagnosed as if you weren't aware of the symptoms it presents similar to very severe colic, and if you didn't choose to refer to hospital you would PTS at home thinking it was colic.

 

[meleeka]

I lost mine 3 years ago and it definitely seemed to be a bad year for it, but each year since I keep seeing more and more cases shared. I'd literally never heard of anyone losing a horse to it before.

I also believe many horses die from it undiagnosed as if you weren't aware of the symptoms it presents similar to very severe colic, and if you didn't choose to refer to hospital you would PTS at home thinking it was colic.

I think you are correct. I know of a couple of horses that I think probably had it, but it wasn't really known about then, so in one case grass sickness was the diagnosis and the other was found dead in the field after being seen with mild colic symptoms.

 

[New Forests Rock]

@KikiDee so very sorry. We have lost 2 at our yard several years ago, and our wonderful yard and farm owner went straight out and felled every single tree. (Appreciate not possible for OP) Now we just keep a permanent watch for any lingering remains from those trees.

 

[KikiDee]

@KikiDee so very sorry. We have lost 2 at our yard several years ago, and our wonderful yard and farm owner went straight out and felled every single tree. (Appreciate not possible for OP) Now we just keep a permanent watch for any lingering remains from those trees.

What a wonderful YO you have. I obviously never returned to the yard but I’m aware they still have the trees on their own land. They are next to dense woodland so I can sympathise that they probably feel felling their own trees would be a drop in the ocean but also…why wouldn’t you?

Also still a yard full of liveries but then I also didn’t think it would happen to me until it did.

 

[hairycob]

12 years ago I lost one and had one survive. I'm stunned there are still vets who are so ignorant as about it. The one that died was 8 and the survivor was 15 but he was a week at the vets and we only got him there quickly enough because, having lost the first one a few days before, they said don't wait bring him straight in when we phoned. Both were very fit and the right weight.

 

[Exasperated]

I refrained from commenting for a while on this as it's quite a touchy subject for me and I appreciate I will be pretty biased in my views. However, if it saves one person the heartache. Do not take your chances with the b*stard things.

We had a flush of them a few years ago from neighbouring trees. Horse was grazing in a field that had horses on it for 30+ years and everyone told me "we've never had a problem". Nonetheless I hand-picked for hours. Sprayed them, collected them, mowed them and collected with a box. Put ad-lib hay out.

Horse came in at 7pm just seeming a bit 'off'. Called vet, suspected colic. I mentioned the sycamores but vet said they only really saw cases in foals and she felt it was unlikely in a well and fit horse, we treated as colic but when horse didn't respond to bute & buscopan we referred to local university hospital incase surgery was needed. Horse arrived at hospital 3 hours after initial emergency vet call-out, still bright and relatively non-symptomatic on arrival. Hospital catheterised him and were able to diagnose atypical myopathy fairly quickly (sycamore poisoning). He was placed in intensive care immediately on an IV. He spent 4 days in intensive care attempting to support him and flush the toxins and he was on an IV of opioid painkillers to try and keep him comfortable. On day 5 he deteriorated massively, we couldn't manage his pain levels anymore and his organs were shutting down, I was told his chance of survival was limited to none and I chose to PTS.

It is an absolutely horrific and agonising way for them to die and there is no treatment. Some are lucky and manage to pull through, others like in my case there is literally nothing you can do despite the best and most immediate care. It's just a lottery. There are still horses grazing the same fields and no others have been affected, we were just the unlucky ones.

It is an awful way to lose your horse, so very sorry, and that random way yours was affected when all the others remain ok, seems common - altho why are some hyper-susceptible? Definitely some research needed.
Killing or felling the sycamores is the only answer if cannot graze elsewhere, they’re just giant weeds and not even native.

 

[KikiDee]

It is an awful way to lose your horse, so very sorry, and that random way yours was affected when all the others remain ok, seems common - altho why are some hyper-susceptible? Definitely some research needed.
Killing or felling the sycamores is the only answer if cannot graze elsewhere, they’re just giant weeds and not even native.

There’s still so much unknown about it. Honestly I’ve driven myself mad with it, he was peak health & fitness and we couldn’t have caught it any earlier, literally all the odds in his favour. I genuinely thought he would pull through as we’d done everything, when we lost him I was just in complete disbelief. Then you get horses who either seem to just have a natural immunity, or ones who are treated conservatively at home with fluids once they’ve already gone down and are in a bad way, who seem to pull through.

I have my suspicions other horses on the yard have been affected in the past unknown to the owners, as there have been a few lost to sudden and awful ‘colic’ over the years. The yard is on sandy soil and they’re all very paranoid and will tell you of the horses tragically lost to sand colic, but I’m not so sure…. There have been no further cases since I lost mine though (I still have contacts there).

 

[Exasperated]

There’s still so much unknown about it. Honestly I’ve driven myself mad with it, he was peak health & fitness and we couldn’t have caught it any earlier, literally all the odds in his favour. I genuinely thought he would pull through as we’d done everything, when we lost him I was just in complete disbelief. Then you get horses who either seem to just have a natural immunity, or ones who are treated conservatively at home with fluids once they’ve already gone down and are in a bad way, who seem to pull through.

I have my suspicions other horses on the yard have been affected in the past unknown to the owners, as there have been a few lost to sudden and awful ‘colic’ over the years. The yard is on sandy soil and they’re all very paranoid and will tell you of the horses tragically lost to sand colic, but I’m not so sure…. There have been no further cases since I lost mine though (I still have contacts there).

I’m certain you are right about underreporting, attributing deaths to other causes.
Apparently other grazing livestock can be poisoned by sycamores too, but, like susceptibility to ragwort, commercial animals are most unlikely ever to be tested or given intensive care. I doubt either farmers or vets would have any idea - it’s just an unfortunate dead animal, and if you keep livestock of course you’ll have some deadstock....
Take care.

 

[Redders]

I felled a load of trees in my hedge, we have been here 30 odd years and my mums horses were here no problem, then when looking things up, the trees don’t bear seeds until 25-30 years, so that’s possibly why ‘We’ve never had a problem’ . Trouble with felling the hedge ones, it opened a gap in the hedge and there is a damn sycamore across the road right in that gap, so still get some but not as many as the previous few years

 

[paddy555]

I felled a load of trees in my hedge, we have been here 30 odd years and my mums horses were here no problem, then when looking things up, the trees don’t bear seeds until 25-30 years, so that’s possibly why ‘We’ve never had a problem’ . Trouble with felling the hedge ones, it opened a gap in the hedge and there is a damn sycamore across the road right in that gap, so still get some but not as many as the previous few years

there was a lot of panic over AM around 2012 or so. We took a chainsaw to the problem. I now check the hedges each year and very young sycamores have the seed pods, lots of them. I don't think you can work on the basis that it is not the younger trees. They all seem to have the capacity unfortunately. I have removed several young sycamores with pods. (I appreciate that everyone cannot resolve the problem with felling)

 

[hairycob]

2014 was a really bad year. I knew 4 yards that lost horses including the local RDA centre and a vet who lost one they had bred themselves. The research identifying the cause was published July 2013.

 

[SEL]

I also believe many horses die from it undiagnosed as if you weren't aware of the symptoms it presents similar to very severe colic, and if you didn't choose to refer to hospital you would PTS at home thinking it was colic.

Colic was the assumption behind my friend's Welsh pony until 2 others got ill within the week. They lost my friend's pony and one of the others but saved the second - it was because he was quickly hospitalised they worked out what was wrong.

Very sorry about yours. I know a lot of people moved yards after they lost those horses but they'd never had a problem before.

 

[Exasperated]

I felled a load of trees in my hedge, we have been here 30 odd years and my mums horses were here no problem, then when looking things up, the trees don’t bear seeds until 25-30 years, so that’s possibly why ‘We’ve never had a problem’ . Trouble with felling the hedge ones, it opened a gap in the hedge and there is a damn sycamore across the road right in that gap, so still get some but not as many as the previous few years

Hmm, over the road in the dead of night with cordless drill, battery acid and murder the damn thing?

 

[Exasperated]

there was a lot of panic over AM around 2012 or so. We took a chainsaw to the problem. I now check the hedges each year and very young sycamores have the seed pods, lots of them. I don't think you can work on the basis that it is not the younger trees. They all seem to have the capacity unfortunately. I have removed several young sycamores with pods. (I appreciate that everyone cannot resolve the problem with felling)

Agree, the youngsters do have pods, altho levels of toxin may be lower?
But even horses eating seedlings can be poisoned, so elimination has to be preferable (unless, obviously, an iconic landmark on Hadrian’s Wall - apparently hundreds of offspring since been planted all over UK…..)

 

[Pearlsasinger]

We cut our sycamores down a couple of years ago, we are still removing new growth off the stumps. However we had had horses here for 30 yrs and there were ponies on the land when We viewed prior to purchase. Our sheep kept any seedlings at bay and hoovered up the seeds but we decided that as they are not native, the sycamores could be dispensed with. We planted 3 beech trees in their place, at the same time as we put In native, horse-friendly hedging.
I would try to get some sheep onto the land to save human labour.

 

[pistolpete]

It’s such a worry and so sad. So sorry for your loss @KikiDee x

 

[pistolpete]

We cut our sycamores down a couple of years ago, we are still removing new growth off the stumps. However we had had horses here for 30 yrs and there were ponies on the land when We viewed prior to purchase. Our sheep kept any seedlings at bay and hoovered up the seeds but we decided that as they are not native, the sycamores could be dispensed with. We planted 3 beech trees in their place, at the same time as we put In native, horse-friendly hedging.
I would try to get some sheep onto the land to save human labour.

Yard owner has some sheep but won’t let them in the main horse field as there’s a foot path through and dogs chase them.

 

[maya2008]

Toxins in seedlings are highest in years following a drought - we lost a horse in his prime the spring following the 40 degree summer. Same horse had grazed that paddock the previous year fine. His field mates were fine. Equine hospital said that was typical and that the previous big drought had been long enough ago that he wouldn’t have been alive for it. Last year was a drought year - this year seedlings are numerous and very very toxic.