Sycamore poisoning?

[Exasperated]

We cut our sycamores down a couple of years ago, we are still removing new growth off the stumps. However we had had horses here for 30 yrs and there were ponies on the land when We viewed prior to purchase. Our sheep kept any seedlings at bay and hoovered up the seeds but we decided that as they are not native, the sycamores could be dispensed with. We planted 3 beech trees in their place, at the same time as we put In native, horse-friendly hedging.
I would try to get some sheep onto the land to save human labour.

That sounds lovely - beautiful, graceful beeches….a definite upgrade. Did you drill into and poison the cut-off stumps?
Only thing, apparently grazing sheep are also susceptible to sycamore toxin!
According to our vets, who readily admit there isn’t anywhere enough research, also that we’ve probably only realised the issue in horses because horse owners are far more protective and individualistic with their animals than are livestock farmers.
Like many, I’ve kept sheep, cattle and horses alongside sycamore over decades, without any idea or obvious evidence of an issue, altho, like many, have had some unexplained fatalities. Sheep are internationally-renowned for dropping dead! And I kind of wonder….
Some horse owners put sheep in to graze off ragwort, a cumulative poison, which doesn’t do them any good at all.
Basically, got to remove whatever is the culprit, and stand firm against any greenwash nonsense, too.

 

[Exasperated]

Toxins in seedlings are highest in years following a drought - we lost a horse in his prime the spring following the 40 degree summer. Same horse had grazed that paddock the previous year fine. His field mates were fine. Equine hospital said that was typical and that the previous big drought had been long enough ago that he wouldn’t have been alive for it. Last year was a drought year - this year seedlings are numerous and very very toxic.

That’s interesting, makes sense, thanks.

 

[Exasperated]

Yard owner has some sheep but won’t let them in the main horse field as there’s a foot path through and dogs chase them.

Well, no point sacrificing the poor sheep, better to keep raking up and quietly kill the parent if you can’t remove it. A standing, dead tree (takes a while) becomes a safety candidate for felling.
Then plant a more suitable one?

 

[New Forests Rock]

Agree, the youngsters do have pods, altho levels of toxin may be lower?
But even horses eating seedlings can be poisoned, so elimination has to be preferable (unless, obviously, an iconic landmark on Hadrian’s Wall - apparently hundreds of offspring since been planted all over UK…..)

Would you believe the stupidity of some of those offspring being gifted to the New Forest National Park - and then planted on open Forest land where ponies, donkeys and cattle can all potentially be poisoned. . I for one am hoping some Commoners will do a midnight raid.

 

[KikiDee]

I did a lot of research on this after I lost my boy as I found it quite cathartic and another thing of interest is that there is a theory/research that the tree's and saplings become much more toxic when they're 'stressed' - so drought and also stormy weather. Not sure if it was pure coincidence but mine came down with it the day after we'd had a horrendous storm.

 

[Exasperated]

Would you believe the stupidity of some of those offspring being gifted to the New Forest National Park - and then planted on open Forest land where ponies, donkeys and cattle can all potentially be poisoned. . I for one am hoping some Commoners will do a midnight raid.

?!?! Blood and sand - whose media-oriented idea? The sodding things aren’t even native to GB! Just cull them quietly, there’s bound to be a Sycamore Protection League, or something.

 

[Marigold4]

The seedlings start to pop up mid-March. At that point they are curled up and difficult to see and a horse might take a mouthful of grass with a seedling in it. I make sure that my horses graze down the areas in the low risk months where the seeds are likely to fall and therefore the seedlings likely to grow. Then I can see them relatively easily and pick them up. I spend hours walking up and down in autumn and in spring. The tree is in a neighbour's garden - they won't cut in down as it is so "pretty". They can see me out there in the pouring rain picking the damn things up. The bits nearest the tree are fenced off - I pay rent for bits of field I can't use. I hate sycamores! I just wish we knew more about the risks - it seems that all you can do is your best and then keep your fingers crossed. Most fields have a sycamore somewhere nearby.

 

[Beausmate]

I found the first seedlings at the end of the third week in February. I pulled another two this morning, but they are now getting harder to find, so I'm winning! I have pulled up over 3000 so far and that is on top of the seeds I raked up in the autumn. I don't have the luxury of cutting down someone else's trees (which is criminal) and I don't think it would be a priority for the landowner. Plus, they are very large and not in a great place to work on, so it would be a pro job and expensive. As for moving to another yard, finding the right yard to rent in my area is hard enough, without finding one that doesn't have an exceedingly common tree species within seed-blowing distance.

So I just spend hours pulling them up. The alternative is to keep the horses locked in what is basically shed and never turn out. Or win the lottery.

 

[Errin Paddywack]

I pulled another two this morning, but they are now getting harder to find, so I'm winning! I have pulled up over 3000 so far and that is on top of the seeds I raked up in the autumn.

The problem with removing the seedpods is that by the time they fall they have usually shed their tiny seeds, hence all the seedlings. We are inundated and pulling up seedlings daily.

 

[Exasperated]

The seedlings start to pop up mid-March. At that point they are curled up and difficult to see and a horse might take a mouthful of grass with a seedling in it. I make sure that my horses graze down the areas in the low risk months where the seeds are likely to fall and therefore the seedlings likely to grow. Then I can see them relatively easily and pick them up. I spend hours walking up and down in autumn and in spring. The tree is in a neighbour's garden - they won't cut in down as it is so "pretty". They can see me out there in the pouring rain picking the damn things up. The bits nearest the tree are fenced off - I pay rent for bits of field I can't use. I hate sycamores! I just wish we knew more about the risks - it seems that all you can do is your best and then keep your fingers crossed. Most fields have a sycamore somewhere nearby.

Full sympathy, and entirely agree that as much research as possible is needed, because at present sycamore is (wrongly) purely perceived as an inconvenience to people with horses, which group isn’t that well-regarded - ideally, a boffin identifies a toxic link into waterways /aquatic life from drifting seeds! Got to be a PhD for someone in there, somewhere, surely?
Re the toxic seeds emanating from your neighbours’, unsure where this stands, legally, but more research and awareness could only help.
Certainly it is illegal to grow toxic trees like yew or laurel close to a boundary with grazing animals; and certainly if any toxic herbicide / insecticide drifted into a neighbouring property, that spray operator or their employer would be fully liable. As a general principle, citizens can’t merrily subject other people and their property to damage and danger.
Possibly some professional advice, because maybe they are responsible for scraping up all their hazardous garden waste which threatens your livestock? If required to do that, might alter some attitudes. Good luck.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

That sounds lovely - beautiful, graceful beeches….a definite upgrade. Did you drill into and poison the cut-off stumps?
Only thing, apparently grazing sheep are also susceptible to sycamore toxin!
According to our vets, who readily admit there isn’t anywhere enough research, also that we’ve probably only realised the issue in horses because horse owners are far more protective and individualistic with their animals than are livestock farmers.
Like many, I’ve kept sheep, cattle and horses alongside sycamore over decades, without any idea or obvious evidence of an issue, altho, like many, have had some unexplained fatalities. Sheep are internationally-renowned for dropping dead! And I kind of wonder….
Some horse owners put sheep in to graze off ragwort, a cumulative poison, which doesn’t do them any good at all.
Basically, got to remove whatever is the culprit, and stand firm against any greenwash nonsense, too.

We have had a small number sheep on the land for Almost 30 yrs, 4 generations and haven't had any potentially sycamore related deaths. Current ones are 10 yrs old, their mothers lived to be 12 before being pts because of age-related issues. We keep a very close eye on them, as individuals, as they are not members of a huge flock.

 

[jules9203]

I rent my land and we have sycamore trees everywhere. The landlord refuses to cut them down. In the 13yrs we've been here we have lost one TB. He was in poor condition but 4yrs old. It was quick but horrific. My old mare used to go round and eat the seedlings off the tree if she could reach them and never had a problem! I used to go round chopping of branches and having a complete panic. Apparently some horses seem to become "immune" to the poison (not sure how true that is!) We pull, spray or strim them every year but never manage to eradicate them completely. The year after a drought is very bad as there are many more seedlings.

 

[Beausmate]

The problem with removing the seedpods is that by the time they fall they have usually shed their tiny seeds, hence all the seedlings. We are inundated and pulling up seedlings daily.

They're not that tiny. A lot of them were still attached to the 'wing' and I have picked up lots that are just starting to sprout. They are about the size of a pea, so easy enough to spot if you're tuned in.