Sycamore proofing field

[Alex88]

Hi all,
I keep my retired pony on a farm where there have been several deaths from atypical myopathy. I'm needing to move fields and the only one available is large but with some sycamores in that are very very big so the farmer won't cut them down. My pony has always lived out and goes bonkers stabled so keeping her in isn't an option and I can't find any alternative yards that offer year round grazing. I've had some ideas to try and mitigate the risk like fencing her into the area away from the trees then will closely monitor seeds/saplings in that area. Has anyone else got their horses in a sycamore field and got any tips for me that I might be missing? I'm really unsure about moving her but haven't got any alternatives really. Other than the sycamores it's a perfect field.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

I don't have the trees in my field but loads opposite and I get seedlings mainly on the but of field nearest the trees, I have fenced if off until they die or I pull them up my horses won't eat them I have watched them eat round them but I am still careful, I make sure they are never really hungry they get hay in the field most of the year, I think the risk is higher if grass is sparce and the horses are fed nothing else.

 

[Alex88]

Yes that's what I was thinking too, might be able to move her out temporarily in autumn too. I'm more twitchy about it because the last occupant died last autumn after only being in there about 2 months, but I don't think she took any precautions. Thank you

 

[meleeka]

I personally wouldn’t be able to sleep at night, but maybe that’s just me. The seeds travel a long way so just fencing off the trees probably won’t help much.

If you really have no choice I’d strip graze, moving the fence daily and meticulously check each strip before allowing your horse to graze it.

 

[Alex88]

I know this is the problem. She's been on that farm for years with the sycamores in situ either in the field she's been in or around so I don't know if they have any resistance if they're older?

 

[MereChristmas]

If the fields are different to the ones that had sycamore poisoning could you get the trees tested?
Not sure if this is the up to date link..

https://www.animalhealthmedia.com/s...y-college-equine-atypical-myopathy-diagnosis/

 

[Alex88]

That's really interesting, thank you Meredith, will look into it. I know all the horses that have died there have been young. But wouldn't want to use that as a definite that my pony wouldnt be susceptible. There's a horse in an adjacent field where the previous occupant died who has been fine, it'll be interesting to see what research reveals over time about atypical myopathy.

 

[WobblyBob]

We have a lot of sycamores around our fields and it is a bit of a nightmare. After a relatively recent incident my boys had their blood tested and it was found that they had slightly elevated CK and AST levels (both were at a sub clinical level), bloods also went to the RVC to confirm the raised CK was due to Hypoglycin A rather than for another reason. It has been a bit of a wake up call as fields have been grazed for decades without a problem (to our knowledge) and I naively assumed that it meant it was ok. The boys have now gone from living out 24/7 to being stabled overnight. One of them was horrifically stressed by this for the first ten days (as was I) to the extent he literally walked in circles all night. He has now calmed down and is first in the queue to come in so it might be worth trying stabling and persevering with it!

They go out wearing muzzles during the day at the moment and I am planning for this to continue until the risk from seedlings has passed. I am probably going to remove the muzzles in the summer months and leave out 24/7. They are both good doers anyway so not the end of the world. I also strip graze all year round anyway, so now thoroughly check the fresh bit for seedlings and seeds when I move the fence line. There is no two ways about it, it is time consuming and tedious. It has worked though as after six weeks the CK levels were back in the normal range. It is about £80 a time for the blood tests, but I am likely to have one of them tested monthly to keep an eye on how effective my measures are.

I also have a cordless hand held hoover which I am finding helpful in fields that have been grazed down, although it clogs a bit. I felt the leaf vacs may not have as much "suck". As this is the first year we are managing the seeds in anger we are feeling our way a bit. I figured if we get to the seeds early and do a systematic sweep at the start of the winter (we have ten acres!) we should be ok through to autumn. Muzzles will go back on in autumn and they will come in overnight again. We have switched the grazing rotation round so they will be in the field that only has sycamore at one end in the autumn, I will be giving them less of an acreage as well so I can do a daily walk over. I am anticipating a long few months!

Appreciate that stabling is not an option for you, but strip grazing might be helpful and limiting the area he has in the autumn so it is manageable. I was giving them lots of hay, but I can only feed from small bales as the ground gets very wet so can't have machinery on the ground in the autumn/winter. This meant they were gobbling up the hay and still eating the seeds. Maybe if you can manage truly ad lib hay - i.e. big round bale at a time - this will help in the autumn. I think the muzzles really make a difference as well, makes it so much harder to pick up the seeds. Don't forget to make sure there are no seeds or leaves that have blown into the water as well, I believe that the toxin can leach out into drinking water.

I think we are also going to look at testing some of the trees to see if there are any that are toxin free which might make management in the autumn easier. This will have to be done annually though.

Sadly the land is not ours otherwise I would chop the lot down!

 

[Sir barnaby]

We have several sycamore trees surrounding my summer paddock, I have electric fencing down each side so they can’t get too close, there isn’t a problem until the autumn, then I rake up under all the spots where the trees are and I find the leaves the biggest problem so I rake up after windy days too clear majority. The farmer has agreed to chop down all the hanging branches so that will be better but not ideal but I am at a brilliant livery and they move out about September to the winter paddocks so do my best I have been there 3 years so hopefully I am managing the problem as best I can

 

[sjdress]

I have a sycamore tree outside my field. I fence off about a quarter of my field as that is usually as far as the seeds travel. I pick up any that have travelled further and ensure she always has enough to eat so not to pick at them.

 

[suestowford]

If you really have no choice I’d strip graze, moving the fence daily and meticulously check each strip before allowing your horse to graze it.

This is what I do, there are sycamores on both sides of my field. I collect as many of the seeds as I can, and in the spring I collect up any seedlings I find. I suppose it means I get a lot of fresh air as it takes at least an hour to check each strip thoroughly.
I pray for a cold spring as this kills off any seeds that I've missed so at least that reduces the risk a bit. Last year all the sycamore trees were affected by something (do they get ash die-back? I have been trying to find out but haven't got very far with that) and they didn't produce any seeds at all that I could see. I'm not usually excited about my trees getting a disease but I make an exception for sycamores!

 

[Alex88]

Thanks everyone. @emma7718 muzzles are a great idea. My pony has chestnut mare syndrome despite being 21 and generally doesn't do things she doesn't want to do, but she might get used to a muzzle. It's a very big field so I need to work out which are sycamore trees and how far the majority of seeds are likely to blow. Fortunately all the woodland is up one end of the field which makes it easier. Also I might be able to move into another field for a month over autumn if I can convince the farmer. Sympathies to everyone managing this, I'd never heard of it til I moved to this yard and it's not always possible to just remove the trees when they're so prevalent in some areas.

 

[canteron]

I am pretty sure my vet said older sycamore trees are safer than younger ones - may be worth checking out latest research.
Other than that it is a nightmare, some of my fields are next to a sycamore wood that I am legally not allowed to cut down, but some good ideas on here on minimising risk.

 

[WobblyBob]

Thanks everyone. @emma7718 muzzles are a great idea. My pony has chestnut mare syndrome despite being 21 and generally doesn't do things she doesn't want to do, but she might get used to a muzzle. It's a very big field so I need to work out which are sycamore trees and how far the majority of seeds are likely to blow. Fortunately all the woodland is up one end of the field which makes it easier. Also I might be able to move into another field for a month over autumn if I can convince the farmer. Sympathies to everyone managing this, I'd never heard of it til I moved to this yard and it's not always possible to just remove the trees when they're so prevalent in some areas.

The younger gelding seems to be quite sanguine about wearing the muzzle, which I find odd because he is a proper escape artist and a nightmare to contain in the field so I didn't think he'd keep muzzle on! My older boy is a nightmare, he hates anything that covers his face. In fact in the 15 years I have had him I have never been able to get him to keep a fly mask on let alone anything that restricts him eating! He has nearly knocked me out in the tussle to get a muzzle on, until I started bribing him. I now put a couple of Spillers Meadow Herb Treats or a cut up pear in the bottom of the muzzle and now I have no problems getting it on him. I also run electric tape around the boundaries of the paddock so he can't get to anything solid to rub it off with (he has that down to a fine art). They are in Greenguard Muzzles at the moment but I have ordered a Thinline muzzle to try after reading another thread on here.

 

[Alex88]

Mine is the same, won't tolerate a fly mask, she also runs through electric fencing. Ponies! Thanks for the muzzle recommendations, I'll take a look.

 

[sjdress]

Does anyone know, when the helicopter bits fall off the tree and go really brown, are they then dead and therefore a safe area to graze ?

 

[Alex88]

I think they're still as bad but not definite on that. Hopefully someone more knowledgeable will come along to answer, I would like to know too.

 

[WobblyBob]

Does anyone know, when the helicopter bits fall off the tree and go really brown, are they then dead and therefore a safe area to graze ?

This is the most upto date information I can find. The article originated from Liege University which seems to be undertaking a lot of study into atypical myopathy fromsycamore poisoning. I don't think they can say with any certainty that the toxin disappears in older seeds.

https://orbi.uliege.be/bitstream/2268/244828/1/2020-Votion-Animals-FAQs.pdf

 

[L&M]

We either pull the little seedlings up, or use the mower on bad areas collecting them up in the grass box.

 

[laura_nash]

Any chance of putting some sheep or cows in? Our cows seem to like the seedlings and afaik the poison doesn't affect them.

 

[Alex88]

There are sheep on the farm, I was thinking about asking re that. Thanks for the research paper Emma, some good preventative measures to try but also for me some pretty unavoidable risk factors.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

Does anyone know, when the helicopter bits fall off the tree and go really brown, are they then dead and therefore a safe area to graze ?

It's not the helicopter things that are such an issue it's the green seedlings that grow in the ground, they are like 2 long leaves that sprout from the ground, they are nightmare round here I have had actual trees trying to grow here in parts of my garden.

 

[Alex88]

Yes I've seen them in my old field at times, and saw one field that was absolutely riddled with them last year, but the farmer reckons he's seen them off by topping the field and it's now in use so hopefully he was right! Easy to pull up is their only bonus I've found.