Sycamore seeds

hairycob said:
Found it. Mid January Liege were showing 165 reported UK cases for the Autumn alone. The spring was very bad last year as well - that's when my 2 cases were & I personally know of 3 other cases that same spring. Remember as well that only confirmed cases will be logged. A lot of times it is suspected but never confirmed as the horse is already dead & if there is no insurance claim tests are unlikely to be carried out.
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Yep- the numbers are rising as more and more research is being conducted and more knowledge is being sought. It doesn't mean the numbers weren't high before now...just that the cases were not confirmed or logged as much as they are now.
 
Jaymarie said:
It depends nativelover. In my case the tree was incredibly hard to kill and sycamores are great at self seeding. Even if you do cut it down it will just go again.
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yes I agree and ours did. However the growth was small and easily controllable and it has totally resolved the seeds problem from that particular tree.

Having read an earlier comment surely there are not any vets left who still think this is a fad?
 
Yes you're quite right the regrowth was much easier to handle. My biggest mistake was cutting it down when the seeds were still dropping. It scattered them absolutely everywhere.

I should hope not. The vet was genuinely gobsmacked that the horse was in fact suffering with am. Having spent over 24 hours treating her for COLIC and repeatedly ignoring my concerns (the red urine, the sweating, the inability to move). It was only after much research I had the guts to call a different practice for a second opinion . Within half an hour we had blood test results confirming and within 3 hours she was at the equine hospital. 24 hours of suffering because of one vets incompetence.
 
It's not just a question of chopping down trees on your property. The seeds are designed to go a long way on the wind, though obviously the further away they are the smaller the risk. I moved to a yard where the nearest tree is 1/4 mile away but last year still got seeds in one paddock. Nothing this year as there hasn't been the high winds. The trees are very widespread & in some areas it would be impossible to deal with them all. The majority of horses won't get AM, what we need is an understanding of when the risk is high & ideally an anti- toxin
 
hairycob said:
It's not just a question of chopping down trees on your property. The seeds are designed to go a long way on the wind, though obviously the further away they are the smaller the risk. I moved to a yard where the nearest tree is 1/4 mile away but last year still got seeds in one paddock. Nothing this year as there hasn't been the high winds. The trees are very widespread & in some areas it would be impossible to deal with them all. The majority of horses won't get AM, what we need is an understanding of when the risk is high & ideally an anti- toxin
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But surely it would go some way to help prevent the risk, sycamore trees are sounding more like weeds!!! The trees do seem to be everywhere, I know since I've read more on AM I've been looking out for them and they are in abundance in my area.
I agree about an anti toxin, plus more education of vets and horse owners so the signs can be recognised early.
 
Nativelover said:
I agree about an anti toxin, plus more education of vets and horse owners so the signs can be recognised early.
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I agree about the anti toxin but to be any use in such a short timescale then education is the only way ATM. I don't think it can be vet led, owners must know the signs, constantly check and have in place an action plan as to what to do, if they are going to get the horse to a clinic (if that is even possible) what facilities do they have to get a home treatment plan in place etc etc Then make sure the vet knows exactly what they are potentially being called out to.

I removed our tree which was very seed laden to reduce the risk, I cannot control wind dispersal of others. I do now look everywhere I ride. Sometimes we let our ridden horses graze off banks out riding or even off the common. That has now stopped until I have checked for seeds. It is amazing how many they could have picked up from something so simple as resting and grazing out riding.
 
Jaymarie said:
The clinics will only take horses on vet referral so unfortunately it needs to be vet led.
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sorry I didn't mean to suggest the owner should just ring the clinic but that they should decide in advance (if it was ever to happen) if it was going to be viable taking into account transport availability, travelling distance and how the horse would cope. Then when the vet came they would immediately know what they wanted to do and how to put it in place if it was a possibility.
 
My 2nd case lucky - my vet has a hospital facility & because Jason had died a few days earlier we we're told not to wait for them to come out just bring him straight in. That probably saved his life. They now have a protocol that if the symptoms fit & there are sycamore close by they do a blood test. But if owners don't recognise the risk/symptoms there is a good chance the vet won't be called in time. Let's face it, if you took your horse out SJ on a Saturday & he was a bit lacking in energy in the warm up it is pretty likely that you would decide to keep an eye on him maybe call the vet if he's no better in a few days & that was the clue with HP.
 
I made the same error with my mare. On the Sunday before she died she was definitely not herself but not in any specific way. On the Saturday we'd had a brilliant hack with friends and she was completely herself, I thought maybe she was a bit hungry, having been turned out 24/7 the week before, or maybe her arthritis or even feet were playing her up. Her field was covered in seedlings, I hadn't appreciated these were also toxic. She was dead by the Tuesday. :(
 
It was already too late with Jason when I noticed anything wrong. We had hacked out the night before, he had followed me round the field as usual in the morning threatening to knock over the barrow. But when I got there in the evening he was reluctant to eat - massive red flag with a greedy cob. There was nothing obvious other than that at 6.30, no sweating etc. When I went to get thermometer to check his temp before phoning the vet he followed me across the field. Vet arrived at 8 as on duty vets were both already dealing with colics that ended up in surgery. By 9 he had collapsed. Vet left at 1.15, we had got him back up & were hoping that the fluids he had been given would mean he was well enough to travel first thing - vet was coming back about 6. 2.30 he had collapsed again & his breathing was laboured. 3.30 he was pts, his heart was failing. If it hadn't been for that HP would have been turned out & checked in a few hours. That is what is so scarey about AM, the early signs are so vague, the end can be so quick.
 
charlie76 said:
I have only one tree produce and helicopters this year and that one has hardly any. I have no idea why they didn't appear this year. The vet thinks my tree is an ornamental maple but I still wouldn't risk it. I checked yesterday for fallen seeds after the wind and couldn't find any so hopefully they have dropped inside the electric fence.
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I found this too this year! Of 5 trees (that were all heavily laden with seeds last year) only one produced any seeds this year.
 
_GG_ said:
It is largely agreed that many many cases were being misdiagnosed until fairly recently.

I don't think it's a surprise that it's become more prevalent or seen as a "new" issue. I think that has more to do with the massive shift in our general management of horses.

30 years ago, as a child, I don't remember ever seeing a horse on it's own in a postage stamp paddock. I'm sure it happened, but it was not the norm. Most horses were kept on plenty of grazing and in herds. Nowadays, livery yards, small paddocks, individual or paired turnout or restricted turnout are more normal and many horses go out on overgrazed paddocks. When this happens and there isn't access to plenty of forage in the form of hay or haylage, of course the horses will look for something else.

Also, when you look at horses in herds, with plenty of grazing and access to hedges, they spend almost as much time browsing the hedgerows as they do grazing. They pick out rosehips, blackberries....all sorts...whatever they need and they become very good at knowing what they needs as individuals. All of these plants and the different nutrients in different grasses, herbs and wild flowers can help the gut process the food that is eaten.

I think, when we remove the choice of the horse to eat as it naturally would, we need to make sure we supplement that with forage to prevent the horse picking up the nasties as they go looking for food.
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Was going to comment, and then I read this . . . so no need really. Very well said _GG_

P
 
Yes the end can be so quick.

Yet what shocked me the most was that my filly had 24 hours before she was confirmed and in that 24 hours she had two separate episodes of collapsing with laboured breathing to the point u thought she was dying there and then, but then she would suddenly stand up and recover for 5 minutes as if nothing had happened. So strange.

And yet after admission at the clinic she was making improvements, yet suddenly took a turn for the worst before I could even reach her. Very fast acting, and certainly sporadic in this case.

So sad to hear of other cases :(
 
If the trees are in your garden no problem. If they are in a conservation or have a tree preservation order in place ,big problem. You can cut down 6 cu ft a quarter not much, otherwise you have to get a permit from the Forestry commission who have discessued this with the BHS who should have a policy pamphlet.
 
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