Tail docking!

I have 2 dogs with tails that are breeds traditionally docked. The arguement for docking these days is weak. I have a working ESS with a tail - although she has had some injuries they have healed quickly and she uses her tail as a rudder for swimming and balancing so I would hate for her to have been deprived of it.
Breeds such as rotties and dobies (I have one with a tail) are no longer used for 'working' and therefore there is no justification for docking.
Several other 'working' breeds such as collies and labrodors have never been docked.
The vast majority of dockings done now are for purely cosmetic reasons and, along with ear cropping, I find it unbelieveable that this is still allowed.
I know of only 1 vet in my area that will actually carry out docking - most of them are strongly against it.
 
I thought ear cropping over here is illegal? My schnauzer is docked, but her breeder sent her down to Eire to get it done as illegal up here. This was before I was even down or had viewed said pups. personally, I don't think it should be done. Seen too many horror piccies of it gone wrong
 
It probably is illegal here, but I know it happens in many other countries. If it is illegal here then how can docking still be allowed. I've seen it done and it's horrific to watch - the pups are clearly in pain when its being done.
I know a couple of vet nurses and they refuse to be present during docking as they find it so distressing.
 
The tail is used to balance as often proved when one of our previous dogs (a doberman) tried to turn corners when sprinting. He also had to be re docked as he was docked incorrect for his breed & confirmation, so he had problems everytime he sat down. Bonnie who we had at the same time had also been docked & she was a Rottie x Ridgeback, so what was the point in that? They have the tail for a reason, leave it alone.
 
My JR has a tail and I have lost count how many times I have been asked what breed he is, & when I have responded that he is a JR, they have then looked surprised and said but he's got a tail
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(Yeah they are all born with tails!!!). I love my JR's tail, it never stops wagging and as the only ratting he does is with soft furry toys, is unlikely to be damaged or cause him a problem.

My brother has a ESS (docked) which he works, and to be honest I can see why they have traditionally been docked, so can see both sides.
 
DOGS NEED TAILS!!!!!
There is a pathetic argument that working dogs (and these days the only working dogs are labs, Springers, cockers, terriers) need their tails docked. Yes they may get injured whilst working, but at least if they need a bit of tail chopping off they get anaesthetic and pain relief!!! Which is a lot more than the poor puppies get! Im a vet nurse and only one of the vets in my practice will dock and he says that he does it to prevent idiots from trying to do it themselves. I have to listen (he used to ask us nurses to hold the pups whilst he did it but we all refuse cos we think its awful) to the poor little buggers cry their hearts out. It really is distrssing to hear them and the mother of the pups gets distressed. Dogs need their tails to communicate, not only with us humans but also (and more importantly) with other canines. How can they do this with a stump??!!I have been informed that as of april this year, docked dogs will not be allowed to be in showing classes and you will only be allowed to get puppies tails docked if you are a gamekeeper with a gun licence (dont know how much of that info is true, one of our receptionists at work told me and she's into dog showing an stuff!). For me, the legislation couldn't come any sooner. Sorry for the rant - had to get it out tho!! I have a cocker and springer with tails and i love em.
 
CALM DOWN, I agree with you. I would never choose to have a dog docked (in fact begged breeder to leave my JRs tail alone - hence he (and his litter mates) still has his). I completely agree that there is no valid reason to dock non working dogs and the practise needed to be stopped. I have seen both ESS and Cockers with tails and personnally think they look better with them (not that aesthetics should come into it). However I have also seen injured tails on working dogs, (by working dogs I mean those that actually go shooting) so can see why those destined to work would be docked (this doesn't mean I actually agree with the way docking is done).

P.S. The pups (JRs) in my siggy all have full tails (even thou they look short in that pic) mines the one in the middle.
 
They dont anaesthetise puppies for docking cos its too dangerous in such young animals. anaesthetic would only be given at that age in an emergency. Their little bodies don't cope well. I also heard (this was some years ago and cant remeber who said it) that at that age they dont feel pain and dont remember it. I agree they prob wouldnt remember, but as for feeling pain!! absoloute rubbish!! if you ever heard them cry when it gets done, you would agree. bless em.
 
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DOGS NEED TAILS!!!!!
There is a pathetic argument that working dogs (and these days the only working dogs are labs, Springers, cockers, terriers) need their tails docked. Yes they may get injured whilst working, but at least if they need a bit of tail chopping off they get anaesthetic and pain relief!!! Which is a lot more than the poor puppies get! Im a vet nurse and only one of the vets in my practice will dock and he says that he does it to prevent idiots from trying to do it themselves. I have to listen (he used to ask us nurses to hold the pups whilst he did it but we all refuse cos we think its awful) to the poor little buggers cry their hearts out. It really is distrssing to hear them and the mother of the pups gets distressed. Dogs need their tails to communicate, not only with us humans but also (and more importantly) with other canines. How can they do this with a stump??!!I have been informed that as of april this year, docked dogs will not be allowed to be in showing classes and you will only be allowed to get puppies tails docked if you are a gamekeeper with a gun licence (dont know how much of that info is true, one of our receptionists at work told me and she's into dog showing an stuff!). For me, the legislation couldn't come any sooner. Sorry for the rant - had to get it out tho!! I have a cocker and springer with tails and i love em.

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Well, what an idealistic world you live in!

Whilst I am 100% AGAINST the cosmetic docking of any breed, your post is so misleading an wrong.

You open your post by saying the only working dogs these days are labs, springers, cockers and terriers - really? First point labs are not and have never been docked.

Secondly what about all the other working breeds?
There are about another 109 working breeds in the UK, ok most are not docked, and I do not agree with the docking of the HPRs as they do not face cover like a spaniel.

All my spaniel puppies are docked (by my vet) at 2-3 days of age, this takes 3-7 days to heel - you have heard puppies screaming whilst its been done? 99% of our puppies don't even wake up, its that quick.

You then think its far better to do it to an older dog which has received serious injury whilst out working under GA - wake up will you. Any op under GA is a serious issue for a dog, the injury aside there are also the risks from the GA.

You have a springer and a cocker, do you work them? I doubt it, so please do not judge something you know nothing about and clearly do not understand.

Do not even think about getting on your high horse about being a Vet' nurse, I was married to a practice manager (Qualified vet nurse too) for 16 years - so I also know the facts.

Working spaniels, both Springers and cockers need to be docked, that is why there is an exemption under the recent animal welfare act to allow this - oddly Even the "ban it all" labour government recognised that.

If anyone has seen the horrific injuries suffered by proper working spaniels, they will understand why they are docked.

If you would like some more facts, just ask, I can post away for you.

Mike
 
I totally disagree with docking of tails, the tail is no a limb like the legs but is an extension of the spinal column. They use their tails for balance and also to allow communication with other dogs and their human handlers.

I used to agree with tail docking in working dogs because i thought it would help prevent injury. But i recently read a scientific paper (possibly by the BVA) that established that the incidence of injury in docked and undocked working dogs is the same, hence docking does not help prevent injury. Which i was surprised about!
 
I would never choose to dock their tails and if I was buying a 'traditionally 'docked breed of puppy I would insist the tail was left on or I'd take my business elsewhere(p.s if anyone has seen my dogs photo's my Dobermann was docked before I took him on when he was 2 years old)
 
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I would never choose to dock their tails and if I was buying a 'traditionally 'docked breed of puppy I would insist the tail was left on or I'd take my business elsewhere(p.s if anyone has seen my dogs photo's my Dobermann was docked before I took him on when he was 2 years old)

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If you felt so strongl, why take on a docked dog?

Sade - www.cdb.org - facts.

Regards

Mike
 
Hi Mike
Because while I was working as a vet nurse an adult Dobermann was brought in weighing 16kg - you work out how he looked, should have been double that- with surprise surprise a massive worm burden to boot and covered in paint.Yet he was such a sweet, trusting dog and we had recently lost our old boy so I took him home, love at first sight. So that is how I came to take on a docked dog. I feel the same way about albino Dobes but if they are here and neglected, well it's not their fault is it. I disagree with docking, I have compassion .
I hope that answers your question
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Until some definative evidence is found to suggest either way this debate will continue with everyone having their own opinions.

I continue to believe that docking for cosmetic reasons should be 100% banned. But i think more research is needed into the docking of working dogs. I cannot doubt that puppies feel pain in tail docking, which also stated by many a veterinarian and beleive that it should not be carried out without the use of some form of anaesthetic.

http://www.bva.co.uk/policy/issues/pol_brief_docking.pdf
 
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