Tail swishing in the transitions - would it put you off?

[Wagtail]

I'm helping a friend with a horse search and she really likes this 5 year old. There are some you tube videos of him. He seems ok but I'm not wowed. Also he swishes his tail when the leg is put on for the upwards transitions. But he looks lovely and loose jumping without a rider. Would the tail swishing put you off? It does me but maybe I'm being too fussy? I can link to the you tube videos but don't want to on an open forum. Please ask me to PM you if you are interested in looking. Thanks.

 

[_GG_]

You can PM me if you want. I'm nipping to the girls in a min but happy to have a look

 

[Wagtail]

You can PM me if you want. I'm nipping to the girls in a min but happy to have a look

Thank you. Have PM'd you.

 

[GlamourDol]

Can I have a look too?

 

[Wagtail]

Have done! I don't mind if you reply on the thread or by PM. Thank you!

 

[_GG_]

No, the tail swishing wouldn't put me off because I think there is a perfectly good reason for it.

The horse, on quick judgement looks to be a nice type, looks nice and uphill in much of the work and I certainly see potential there. Hindleg a little lacking in action but this could be tied in to what I feel is causing the tail swishing.

This horse is 5 and noticeably green. I think the tail swishing has more to do with the fact that I see quite a inflexible rider doing her very best to keep his head down through the work. The horse is just getting two basic aids thrown at it, go and stop at the same time. He understands he must go, but it looks to me like he's just displaying a little attitude at not being allowed to take his head forward. His neck tells a story about his training too...there is a big bulge of muscle at the Axis and little between there and the wither, I would like to see a truer topline than that bulge of muscle.

Nothing that can't be corrected with correct training though.

Not going to set the world on fire, but no damp squib either and for the right price, could be a good buy. I can see room for developing the paces that's for sure. I reckon he'd have a fab walk as well with a little time. He manages a decent walk even when held back and tense so would be nice to see how he walks when ridden a little more sympathetically.

Not criticising the rider by the way. If it's the seller riding, she is obviously going to want to show him in his best light. If it is your friend riding, I'd probably be the exact same on a new and young horse.

 

[bexcy-bee]

I had a horse that used to swish it's tail, bad enough to look like a propellor, got him fully vetted etc and it turned out he needed a bit of physio, and a new saddle. He came right with one physio session and never had any problems again, he was 8 when we bought him, and 10 years on he's still fine.

So, it may be worth a gamble if the horse is nice and suits what its needed for!

Bexcy-bee x

 

[Wagtail]

No, the tail swishing wouldn't put me off because I think there is a perfectly good reason for it.

The horse, on quick judgement looks to be a nice type, looks nice and uphill in much of the work and I certainly see potential there. Hindleg a little lacking in action but this could be tied in to what I feel is causing the tail swishing.

This horse is 5 and noticeably green. I think the tail swishing has more to do with the fact that I see quite a inflexible rider doing her very best to keep his head down through the work. The horse is just getting two basic aids thrown at it, go and stop at the same time. He understands he must go, but it looks to me like he's just displaying a little attitude at not being allowed to take his head forward. His neck tells a story about his training too...there is a big bulge of muscle at the Axis and little between there and the wither, I would like to see a truer topline than that bulge of muscle.

Nothing that can't be corrected with correct training though.

Not going to set the world on fire, but no damp squib either and for the right price, could be a good buy. I can see room for developing the paces that's for sure. I reckon he'd have a fab walk as well with a little time. He manages a decent walk even when held back and tense so would be nice to see how he walks when ridden a little more sympathetically.

Not criticising the rider by the way. If it's the seller riding, she is obviously going to want to show him in his best light. If it is your friend riding, I'd probably be the exact same on a new and young horse.

That is really helpful, thank you. It is the seller riding him and we haven't been to see him yet. I am really busy with the horses at present so don't have the time to go and see horses that could be ruled out through video or even photographs. I am not sure what they are asking for him either, though know my friend is looking to spend around £5k for the right horse. She is novice and quite petit and would want the horse primarily for dressage.

 

[Wagtail]

I had a horse that used to swish it's tail, bad enough to look like a propellor, got him fully vetted etc and it turned out he needed a bit of physio, and a new saddle. He came right with one physio session and never had any problems again, he was 8 when we bought him, and 10 years on he's still fine.

So, it may be worth a gamble if the horse is nice and suits what its needed for!

Bexcy-bee x

Thank you. I am pleased you got to the bottom of it with your horse. I know plenty of horses that do tail swish and there is generally always a reason, be it physical, or as Jinglesmells says, rider error. I see it so often, that I had begun to wonder just how significant it is. Even some high level dressage horses do it.

 

[_GG_]

Thank you. I am pleased you got to the bottom of it with your horse. I know plenty of horses that do tail swish and there is generally always a reason, be it physical, or as Jinglesmells says, rider error. I see it so often, that I had begun to wonder just how significant it is. Even some high level dressage horses do it.

Funnily enough, I did wonder about the saddle fit when watching him loose jumping.

Under £5 could be worth a punt but I would want a 5 stage vetting and ask the vet to check specifically for issues that could be causing tail swishing.

There will be better about for that price, but there will also be worse.

 

[McW]

Mine can lift his tail in collected canter, nothing wrong with him just taking the weight on the hind legs more requires more muscle. He finds it difficult just now but I'm sure as he progresses and builds up more muscle/familiarity. If it passed a vetting I wouldn't be worried.

 

[Wagtail]

Thanks. Sounds like he may be worth going to see, depending on price I guess.

 

[ladyt25]

Not seen the video but, tail swishing at such a young age would indicate to me the horse is in discomfort somewhere and the most likely (and most easily fixable) cause is most likely to be the saddle.

My sister's horse did this as a 4 yo after we'd had him a while and he's put on weight and muscle - the saddle no longer fit and was pinching him. My 4 yo also showed these signs last year when being asked to move up transitions. This eventually escalated to a rather major reaction to a saddle. Again, saddle was too narrow and had actually made him VERY sore all down his back. I stupidly had missed/ignored the earlier, more subtle signs he was giving.

I would suggest seeing him, see him lunged and watch how he carries himself then as well. It may well be the rider is pushing him out of balance as well which could be another reason behind his general discomfort.

 

[khalswitz]

I completely agree with everything being said aside from the high level dressage horse comment. Just to add, when you watch a high level dressage horse swishing, it can be due to having an active hind leg and working hard - the whole spine works and tail swishing can be an extension of that. It isn't always pain or tension in that situation.

In a young/green horse though obviously that is not the case.

 

[Wagtail]

Not seen the video but, tail swishing at such a young age would indicate to me the horse is in discomfort somewhere and the most likely (and most easily fixable) cause is most likely to be the saddle.

My sister's horse did this as a 4 yo after we'd had him a while and he's put on weight and muscle - the saddle no longer fit and was pinching him. My 4 yo also showed these signs last year when being asked to move up transitions. This eventually escalated to a rather major reaction to a saddle. Again, saddle was too narrow and had actually made him VERY sore all down his back. I stupidly had missed/ignored the earlier, more subtle signs he was giving.

I would suggest seeing him, see him lunged and watch how he carries himself then as well. It may well be the rider is pushing him out of balance as well which could be another reason behind his general discomfort.

Thank you. I will definitely have a look at the saddle fit if we view him.

 

[Wagtail]

I completely agree with everything being said aside from the high level dressage horse comment. Just to add, when you watch a high level dressage horse swishing, it can be due to having an active hind leg and working hard - the whole spine works and tail swishing can be an extension of that. It isn't always pain or tension in that situation.

In a young/green horse though obviously that is not the case.

Thank you. That's interesting about the high level dressage horse. I had not heard about that before. I had always thought tail swishing was either pain or annoyance/confusion. You never stop learning with horses.

 

[khalswitz]

Thank you. That's interesting about the high level dressage horse. I had not heard about that before. I had always thought tail swishing was either pain or annoyance/confusion. You never stop learning with horses.

There is a difference between a swinging, active tail and a tense angry tail. Watch some of the Spanish riding school doing collected work or gp horses in the piaffe for example and you'll see what I mean.

I only leaned that earlier this year after asking the same question about Spanish riding school horses so I'm just sharing the knowledge

 

[LizzieRC1313]

My horse tail swished quite badly when we bought him, and it has got a lot better since he has got stronger, had a saddle fitted (seller was just using the same jumping saddle for quite a few of their horses) and is no longer just having his head forced down. He's an absolute beaut and I'm so glad it didn't put us off. But as other have said, definitely get a 5 stage vetting. However if it was something spinal you would need X-rays to find it anyway, so a vetting is limited in its ability to identify back problems that could be causing the swishing. But I'd say if he passes a vetting, go for it he'll probably improve with time.

 

[Wagtail]

Thank you. For those who asked, the seller wants £5500 for him but is open to reasonable offers.