Taking Horses To France New Rules

[Misjudge]

Does anyone actually understand the new rules?

I am in the process of moving and I am taking my horses with me. I emailed and chatted with DEFRA who sent me lots of information, which clearly says that if a TB had a Wetherby passport its not required to have a vet check. British Equestrian Federation also emailed back saying that unless its going to a race the Wetherby passport rule doesn't apply.

DEFRA says a vet check is needed and it will take 10 days to get the forms to my vet (no problem) and them its ok to travel. BEF says I must cross the border within 48 hours of the vet check, but I live on an Island off Scotland so it will take me at least a week to get anywhere near a border. So I ask a vet who deosn't know the horses medical history and doesn't have time to do a blood test to declare them healthy? Not according to DEFRA, my vet does it, so I have to take my vet to the ferry with me?

Anyone actually know how it works? Seems those enforcing it don't, and I don't want to be stuck with horses in a lorry and not have my paperwork correct.

 

[onlytheponely]

I've brought lots of ponies over to France but none since July 2013.

If I wanted to find out the current situation I would be straight onto my transporter chap as he's doing it all the time and sorts out all the paperwork for me. Some transporters arrange the necessary vetting as well, as all mine were 148cm or under they all had to have the fitness to travel veterinary check. Mine regularly transports racehorses as well. Who have you booked to transport yours? PM me if you prefer.

I remember when we moved over here in 2008 that any conversations with DEFRA were actually borderline useless and I was constantly being referred to a page on their website that didn't even exist at the time!

 

[Booboos]

I'd ask a transporter as well.

We came over a while ago (2010) and at the time only ponies had to be vet checked. The Ministry sent over a vet who asked ME what he should do as he only worked with cows! The transporter then failed to pass on the paperwork to anyone else, it was all returned to me with the horses. The whole thing was a complete waste of time.

 

[mutley75]

You are getting all the right information, just misguided! As of the 18,5,14 postponed until the 1,6,14 you will need a tracer(health paper) to travel to France or Ireland. Weatherbys and BEF can also issue a 10 day docwa? To travel but, you must be either competing at an FEI event or running in a race for this to happen.
The 48 hour rule has always been the case, you could get a vet further south to do the tracers but technically the vet is signing that he knows the horse has been where they are vetting it for at least 14 days. If your tracer and export licence are done properly with journey plans you have no issue with your own vet doing it, your problem is that a tracer is only valid for 10 days and you say it will take that long to get from a Scottish Island to the south of England?

 

[Rollin]

I too am now feeling confused.

The changes in legislation apply to the tri-partate agreement between UK, France and Ireland. I assume the new legislation will be as is already applied to other EU member states.

When we purchased our Shagya mares from Hungary they needed a vet certificate to say they were 'fit to travel' signed by two vets.

When we have shipped horses to and fro during the last 12 months, all that was required was an 'export certificate' from DEFRA in Carlisle. So if you move before end of May you may be OK if the rules don't change until June.

Consider, what ever the rules, your layerage on the way. If there is bad weather on the Channel, ferries will refuse take any livestock (that included our cats, when we moved from Perthshire to Maine et Loire). Do you have somewhere to stable your horses in SE and near to the Channel ports?

Consider also the length of crossing and journey time in France. We used Newhaven-Dieppe because the crossing was only 4 hours and only 3-4 hours autoroute in France. Dover-Calais was a quicker crossing but a much longer road journey each side of the channel.

Portsmouth-le Havre/Caen by far the quickest this side of the channel but a long and expensive crossing.

Overnight's are better for horses and drivers as you miss early rush hour traffic this side of the channel.

PM me if we can help in any way.

 

[foraday]

at the moment until the DOCOM comes into work on 1/06/14 your horse will need an export licence and a TRACES if you are travelling before this time.

When the DOCOMs come into place only approved shippers will be allowed to process them using a CLOSED address list therefore your 'house move' does not fit the DOCOM as will not appear on the closed list so you will need to apply for TRACES!! This applies to all FEI and Weatherbys TB passported horses going racing, competing and breeding.

IF horses are not on these passports for example Welsh cob, Horse Passport Agency then the Export licence and TRACES will be required.

Once in France these papers are valid for 10 days

If considering lairage chose CAREFULLY as some places do not clean out anything and strangles is out and about in France and they have a totally different mind set about it and do not think it matters!

I hope that helps

Ireland does not require any of the above! The TPA agreement still stands and they are happy for horses to travel on any valid passport

 

[Caledonia]

Under the new TPA, the DOCOM is only relevant for a racehorse in training, going to stud, or being sold to race, or for a horse or pony with an FEI passport going to France to compete.

The DOCOM is valuable for 10 days only, then will need to be renewed.

EVERY other horse, regardless of breed, will need a health certificate to travel across borders.

Over and above that, your transporter will normally arrange the export license for you. HOWEVER, if you have a TB, then you really need to inform Weatherbys and go through them for the EXPORT DOCUMENT they issue and require. I don't know what other PIOs require, but given the disastrous state of them, I suspect nothing.

 

[Rollin]

at the moment until the DOCOM comes into work on 1/06/14 your horse will need an export licence and a TRACES if you are travelling before this time.

When the DOCOMs come into place only approved shippers will be allowed to process them using a CLOSED address list therefore your 'house move' does not fit the DOCOM as will not appear on the closed list so you will need to apply for TRACES!! This applies to all FEI and Weatherbys TB passported horses going racing, competing and breeding.

IF horses are not on these passports for example Welsh cob, Horse Passport Agency then the Export licence and TRACES will be required.

Once in France these papers are valid for 10 days

If considering lairage chose CAREFULLY as some places do not clean out anything and strangles is out and about in France and they have a totally different mind set about it and do not think it matters!

I hope that helps

Ireland does not require any of the above! The TPA agreement still stands and they are happy for horses to travel on any valid passport

Sorry I do not agree with your comment re strangles.

The National Stud notify registered keepers of ANY viral outbreak anywhere in France by email. I have had just 2-3 notifications of Strangles this year and not in this department.

 

[foraday]

Sadly lairage yards do not keep records of horses 'in transit' and these horses can be unloaded and then reloaded in a matter of hours regardless of driver hours or the DEFRA/EU Rules of horses in transit.

One UK international transporter is enjoying an enforced holiday due to Tacho errors ie continual driving hours and if these have not been adhered to then horses would not have been unloaded for long and certainly not the required 24 hours rest that is required. This is one 'legal transporter' and as the Inside Story showed WHW investigators calculated all the lorries going out not all were legal and infact were trying to follow one lorry to the factory, but did not show. Investigators watch the ports and report back the figures and they are astounding and how many illegals there are.

So Sick horses/ponies are simply pushed back on the lorry and then the journey continues. No vet is called, no one knows. No record is made as the transporter is long gone with the sick horse on board. Outbreaks can only be recorded if a vet is called!

This is what the WHW is trying to wake up DEFRA to the fact that the TPA agreement has been abused over the last 10 years and that the UK is on the verge of a zoological outbreak. The EIA outbreak back in Wiltshire a few years ago is the wake up call.

Stangles sadly in the UK is not notifiable and yet it is everywhere and one just looks to the social media or the forums to see where it is.

Horses can be delivered already ill and by the time the vet arrives the strangles virus is already present and ready to spread

The National Stud would have no idea about how many horses have come into the uk from France healthy let alone ill. Even DEFRA do not know how many horses have come in from France! Hopefully the DOCOMS will maybe help sort this out

Hence why the TPA has had to be changed. Even now the WHW would like to know how this will be policed.

At the moment Approved Shippers that have the authority to approve DOCOMS will have to send back the DOCOMS but the question is who will police this and how. Approved Shippers will have to return DOCOMS back to the TPA either the BHA BEF or TBA are the 3.

Haras also, will be doing the same and sending DOCOMS with the horses returning from France to the UK.

 

[Rollin]

Sadly lairage yards do not keep records of horses 'in transit' and these horses can be unloaded and then reloaded in a matter of hours regardless of driver hours or the DEFRA/EU Rules of horses in transit.

One UK international transporter is enjoying an enforced holiday due to Tacho errors ie continual driving hours and if these have not been adhered to then horses would not have been unloaded for long and certainly not the required 24 hours rest that is required. This is one 'legal transporter' and as the Inside Story showed WHW investigators calculated all the lorries going out not all were legal and infact were trying to follow one lorry to the factory, but did not show. Investigators watch the ports and report back the figures and they are astounding and how many illegals there are.

So Sick horses/ponies are simply pushed back on the lorry and then the journey continues. No vet is called, no one knows. No record is made as the transporter is long gone with the sick horse on board. Outbreaks can only be recorded if a vet is called!

This is what the WHW is trying to wake up DEFRA to the fact that the TPA agreement has been abused over the last 10 years and that the UK is on the verge of a zoological outbreak. The EIA outbreak back in Wiltshire a few years ago is the wake up call.

Stangles sadly in the UK is not notifiable and yet it is everywhere and one just looks to the social media or the forums to see where it is.

Horses can be delivered already ill and by the time the vet arrives the strangles virus is already present and ready to spread

The National Stud would have no idea about how many horses have come into the uk from France healthy let alone ill. Even DEFRA do not know how many horses have come in from France! Hopefully the DOCOMS will maybe help sort this out

Hence why the TPA has had to be changed. Even now the WHW would like to know how this will be policed.

At the moment Approved Shippers that have the authority to approve DOCOMS will have to send back the DOCOMS but the question is who will police this and how. Approved Shippers will have to return DOCOMS back to the TPA either the BHA BEF or TBA are the 3.

Haras also, will be doing the same and sending DOCOMS with the horses returning from France to the UK.

Sorry, I thought you were implying that France has poor bio-security, when in fact in my experience it is better than UK. I have never been to an event in France, where my horse's passport, vaccinations and m/chip were not checked - even for local agricultural and youngstock shows.

Unlike the UK you cannot breed (legally) from mares and stallions who have not been swabbed - lab test results go directly to the National Equine Database (SIRE) if my stallions do not have negative tests and up to date vaccinations we cannot obtain a covering book.

Transporters are something else. I don't use them any more. We make our own arrangements.

DEFRA I wrote to DEFRA on numerous occasions also WHW, when I discovered that horses from Spain, shipped to France for slaughter were being sold on to well meaning Brits and imported into the UK. DEFRA told me there was 'no risk'.

 

[foraday]

No worries Rollin! I agree with you and the UK (DEFRA) do need to pull up their socks!!! We are an island and therefore so easy to close down our borders supposedly! Australia managed to close their doors a few years back when EI was rife.

Anyway due to the EU messing up the 'closed list addresses' the new DOCOM cannot start today!!! No time scale given either!

So everything remains on TRACES and passports!

Perhaps this is the way to go!!! The BEF are charging transporters £100 to become their 'approved shipper' where as TBA and BHA are not charging for this and in fact were phoning up all transporters asking them to do it!!!

So looks like all FEI horses will need to be charged for transporters to recoup their out lay!!! My boss emailed them straight away to ask what exactly is the £100 charge for and is this an annual charge as well! So far nothing back but then everything was done on a Friday afternoon from them.

Does make more sense to have TRACES for EVERYTHING therefore NO confusion to everyone!