Taking my YO to court .... any info?

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leonh

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hi guys!! .. sorry its a bit long! :)

to cut a long story short, 18 months ago my polo pony was in full polo livery, along with her other 4 mates (total 5) which i own, first time i had used this full livery place in West Sussex but we'd moved polo clubs and full livery was actually on site. the YO are very well know in polo world.

i'd only had the horse 6 weeks, and i paid £8,000 for her, a beautiful NZ TB that was super fast and super strong. She only worked in a pelham and had a soft mouth and was easy to control. Just before a polo game, i noticed that her face was swollen - they insisted it was a bee sting and nothing serious and that she could be ridden. one week later i was told i couldnt play my horse as ''she had an abcess that had burst in her mouth due to a piece of blackthorn in it, but we have squeezed it out"" - i went and checked her out - she looked skinny and depressed and there was a large hole under her jaw with purple spray around it and it was oozing pus. The YO and grooms told me she was on antibiotics and the vet had said she would be fine. (the vet was one the yard only used - i was not allowed to use own vet).

As it was near the end of the polo season, all the horses were coming home to me on my farm, and three weeks after noticing the face swelling, my horses were brought home by transporter. I had not seen any of my horses for 2 weeks. As soon as my ill horse stepped off the lorry i knew something was seriously wrong, she was very skinny and the hole under her jaw was twice the size and oozing thick pus. i immediatly called the vet the yard had used and insisted they come to me ASAP as my horses antibiotics were not working and she was looking very ill... the vet then told me they had NEVER seen the horse! after talking to the vet I rang the YO who did not answer. So i called the groom - he pretended he didnt understand me as his english was minimal (he was from argentina) ..

The vet arrived straight away, took one look and did xrays. he also injected her with antibiotics and cleaned her wound. he was not happy and referred the xrays to the equine hospital an hour away and insited he return later that day to inject her with more antibiotics.

the next day the hospital got in touch with th evet who got in touch with me to say she needed and urgent operation as she had necrosis of the jaw due to the infection being left. she spent a month in equine hospital, got colic twice due to being tube fed then weaned on hay, and three pices of bone were removed from her jaw. After the op they told me she would never be able to be used in a pelham again (as she had no bone) and any bruising would almost certainly lead to infection as there was so much scar tissue. she took a good 6 months to recover in the field with me rinsing her mouth every day for 1 month. The vets bill was £7,000.

in the 18 months since this happened i have tried to sort out the problem. the horse is no longer in use as she will not stop and will run through the bridle, she is dangerous as i have zilch brakes! .... no other bit works - i have tried every bit known to man even having a bespoke one made by 'bomber's bits'. i can not use a pelham as she has no bone. the horse is now semi retired (she is only 9) and i use her to hack/be occasional umpire pony.

Last year the YO offered me horses to try in exchange for the vets bill / damage to my horse. He kept his word and offered me two a month ago (even though i have been asking since january) but these horses were totally unsuitable as they were far too small and one used a twisted barry gag (in other words it has no mouth / doesnt stop either). when i said no to these horses i was told ''so sue me - i am offering you nothing more''

the upshot is they admitted to self treating with purple spray a horse with a serious infection in full livery. i am down a horse (£8k) and down a vets bill (£7k)..... they have no insurance and i am now taking having to take them to court. however on the grapevine i have heard they are now skint. any one been in similar position or can reccommend a good lawyer??

please help - any advice greatly appreciated xx
 
sorry to hear about your horse, are you a member of the bhs, if not it might be worth becoming a member as they have an equestrian legal advice team and might be able to point you in the correct way.

on the pony front would she ride in a hackamore? i know this is unsuitable for polo but might be ok for hacking etc just a thougth
 
A very sorry tale but were you insure . I suspect not. A friend of mine tried to sue as her horse was turned out in a field with a plough in the long grass and her horse was chased by other horses into it and died from his injuries. The farm was not insured for livery and her was not insured so she couldnt get a no win no fee company interested.
There are specialist equine lawyers in H&H to try. Good luck
 
You could take this to small claims court, the upper limit is or was 5k but at least you wouldn't have the risk of legal fees. It would be relatively straightforward to present it yourself.
 
It's incredibly difficult to prove negligence unfortunately and presumably you were on the yard on a regular basis throughout this time and could have intervened yourself? I think you'd be better off putting this one down to experience. You could be down alot more if they find for the YO which I suspect they will. Poor horse though.
 
Join the BHS, they are very good, and their legal team will also help with non horsey problems too. It does sound as if they have a duty of care, as you were obviously leaving them with them, and weren't around to monitor the situation. I guess in future you will ring their vet and ask for an opinion in future rather than trusting them.
 
difficult if you sue and they go out of business by going into voluntary bankrupcy , depending on how big their debts are you may never see any money.I,m truly stunned by your post....I know little about ful livery and the polo side of things ..but what a lying t*sser ..hows his reputation now ..jeez
 
I counter sued a previous yard due to 'lack of duty of care' and won the case.
The difference being, I removed my horse on the day I found the horse in the field with all but the bottom rail of the fence down. This field bordered a motorway :(.

Due to me leaving mid month and without notice, although paid up in advance, the YO sued for 2 weeks livery in lieu of notice.
I fought fire with fire and counter sued due to the lack of safety of turnout. Luckily, I'd taken photos, so they couldn't dispute my word.

Would I do it again?
Yes .... but I wouldn't start off the court action, I'd fight my corner if I felt it was necessary.

In your case, it appears a little different but it doesn't appear you did as much for the horse as you could've done.
 
Assuming the yard was complying with the law they must have employer's liability insurance - although that may very well not extend to any form of insurance for the buisness.

As your claim is over £5,000 you need to take this to county court which means you need a solicitor and a barrister. Which means money. If they have none then the chances of your recovering your loss is slim.

Try checking your house and car insurance. These often have legal cover tucked away in the small print. If you have legal cover there then contact them. If you are not already a member of BHS you might want to conisder joining - but it may be that they would not act in this case as the incidents pre date your mmebership.

It might also be worth checking with the local trading standards and with the RSPCA. Failing to provide treatment to a sick animal is a criminal offence. Local Trading Standards may be able to assist if there was a written contract or if the livery buisness was correctly licensed.

In my experience the horse world is not a big one - and I suspect the Polo world even less so. You say the YO was well known in those circles. Is there any element of peer pressure which could lead to them changing thier position?
 
If you have access to legal advice at no cost then I'd take it. If not I'd chalk it up to experience.
If I've got this right, one week after noticing the face swelling you visited her and saw she had a hole in her face and things didn't look good. Two weeks after that she was sent home to you on a transporter. I can't help wondering to myself how I would have dealt with the same situation and I'm quite certain it wouldn't have been to leave the yard to it.
 
I am very sorry to hear about your horse.

The first question is did you have a written and signed and dated agreement with the livery yard concerned?

Did you repond to an advert and have you got a copy of their advert?

Did you check that they had valid insurance to cover any accident to your horse?

Get a written report from your vet as you willl need this if you are to proceed to taking legal action.

Sadly many livery yards are not run professionaly and therefore do not not have contracts with the owners of horses or any insurance cover.

If they do not have insurance cover you need to establish that they have some assets before you take legal action as otherwise you may win the case but never get a pay out.

I would strongly recommend that you consult a specialist equine solicitor. They advertise in Horse and Hounds.
 
difficult one as the arguement will be that you didn't act soon enough, BUT if you have the money to throw at a good solicitor and you had a watertight full livery agreement you may be able to get somewhere. It all depends on what you actually want, money from the YO to cover your losses or just some sense of justice for your horse. if it's the money then you may end up spending out an awful lot more than the £15000 you have already lost. I think you need to go talk to a solicitor who specialises in equine matter and get their honest opinion of your chances in court.
 
BUT if you have the money to throw at a good solicitor and you had a watertight full livery agreement you may be able to get somewhere
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I don't think you need a 'watertight' livery agreement. There may have been a written contract, if not I think the contract would be 'implied' by the monthly payment for full livery.

The yard were completely negligent in their lack of care, and I too would be 'throwing' money at a good solicitor too.

Good luck OP. Hope you manage to get some recompense.
 
amymay said:
I don't think you need a 'watertight' livery agreement. There may have been a written contract, if not I think the contract would be 'implied' by the monthly payment for full livery.

The yard were completely negligent in their lack of care, and I too would be 'throwing' money at a good solicitor too.

Good luck OP. Hope you manage to get some recompense.
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Agree! In hindsight we all have our moments where we wish we had done something different or extra! however, the OP must have had some element of trust that she was being told the truth and her horse was being cared for.

SUE THEIR PANTS OFF! I'm sure they will think again next time
 
I have litigated similar claims in the past, with varied success.

I would recommend you go straight to an equine legal specialist. If you PM me I can recommend some very good equestrian solicitors. Don't even bother getting advice from the average high street firm as they won't understand the issues.

The monetary value is beyond normal small claims. If the issues are simple that track could still be appropriate, but here I don't think it is, so you'd be looking at fast track. Are you a homeowner? If so, you may well have legal expenses cover included. Otherwise it can get expensive (an average fast track case brings in fees of around £7-10k, and then if you lose you have to pay the costs of the other side too).

In short, I'd approach an equestrian solicitor for their views.
 
You need a proper equine solicitor on this!

Duty of care

Welfare Act 2006

Acting in place of a vet, giving POM without veterinary approval

Lack of insurances in place

Stuart Farr is the H&H solicitor!

stuart.farr@clarkewillmott.com

He will give you no nonsense advice regarding this, costs involved, how long it will take etc

Good luck
 
Out of interest can you PM me the name of the guy running the livery? I know a few people in the polo world in West Sussex. Presumably you have proof of the money leaving your account for the livery, a written statement from the vet and is it possible to get some statements from other liveries or players? These would all be useful in a case against him, although if he is pleading bankruptcy then it could be a case of winning on paper but not getting a penny. Good luck.
 
I would certainly be paying for an hours legal advice from a solicitor with experiance in equine matters .
I would then consider my options in light of that advice of course you can sue as a matter of principle but ( my father was a solicitor and his partner used to joke everytime someone tells me it's a matter of principle I book an expensive holiday ) there is little point in sueing a man of straw ( someone with no substance) if your main intention is to recover your costs .
That would be your call but I suspect these type of people would be very good to make themselves penniless if it suited them.
Poor mare will she make a nice brood mare, and it's been an expensive mistake for you and it's one that I made as well that's to trust too much professionals who are caring for your horses, always see your horse regularly or pay some one to do so if you are unable to see them yourself ,always go to the yard on a regular basis ,never trust .
Always check always ring the vet if you are told the vet has said something about your horse I had to have mine PTS in the end .
Well done for doing the right thing by the mare when you realised what was going on was wrong good luck.
 
amymay said:
I don't think you need a 'watertight' livery agreement. There may have been a written contract, if not I think the contract would be 'implied' by the monthly payment for full livery.

The yard were completely negligent in their lack of care, and I too would be 'throwing' money at a good solicitor too.

Good luck OP. Hope you manage to get some recompense.
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i hope you are right for the OPs sake, I'm just talking from my personal experience of going to court over a contract. Any ambiguity in the wording means you may have signed or agreed to something completely different from what you originally thought.
 
I have recently needed the advice of a solicitor . My own solicitor does a clinic that is free. It may be worth seeing if there is a solicitor local that will do that fo you.

I would collect All the evidence , information and statements from the appropriate people before going to see th solicitor.


My own recent case (which is still ongoing) was to do with a person whose horse ( she had the horse on loan) had been left with me and she owed me livery money.
This person already owed another livery yard money ( I did no know this at th time)

Keep at it there will be a way of dealing with it. Good Luck
 
pixie said:
You do seem to have unusually bad luck with horses. So I take it from your previous posts that this horse is not insured?
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i know!!! the problem is i have 7 horses at home on my farm - plus the 5 polo ponies that get sent off march - aug to the polo club full livery. i cannot possibly insure all 12, however i do have my andalusian insured and my eventer.... and guess which two have never needed the vet??!! the problem is i am seen as rich - i am niave when it comes to trusting people - if they insist the vet has been i believe hem - i employ my own super groom at home who lives in whom i trust completely. when i sent my polo ponies off i told the YO no matter how small, a vet must be called. due to the nature of polo ponies and the fact they work hard in summer, i only visited the club when i had chukka's or games - i was happy with their treatment before the incident occured, however self treating a horse has no upside at all when it is not yours and the owner insists on a vet. I have dug out my home insurance and do get legal - however i have also called a specialist - so watch this space! :)
 
If you're capable and want to you could deal with this fairly easily through small claims after taking some legal advice..especially if the upper limit for small claims has now gone up. It's what I did on a case, the specialist equine legal advice cost me £250, they were on the end of a phone throughout the process but I did the work myself. In court the judge said I conducted myself better than some professionals and I won, despite them trotting out several witnesses and me having just one expert. if you believe in it it's worth doing. Good luck.
 
I suggest checking with your home and car insurance providers whether you have 'legal expenses insurance' if so this might help cover the cost - a lot of people have it as an 'add-on' to their policies without even realising they do, and it can cover a range of legal expenses that don't have to be relevant to the insurance e.g. they can cover a dispute with your employer, or a consumer claim.
 
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