Taking the mick or potential issue?

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Moobucket

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My cob really won't pick up his front feet when I'm trying to clean them. He used to no bother but in the last two months has become really naughty about it. If I try to pick them up he'll barge into me and walk through me or try and move backwards, even on a really short rope. I've tried squeezing the chesnut and trying to push his weight off the foot when he is standing square. It can take up to 15 mins to get him to lift each foot and we've usually really fallen out by then.

When he finally does pick it up he seems very reluctant to bend his leg. He moves fine when lunged or ridden so I have no real reason to suspect a problem, its just he picks his backs up no bother at all on first request. It's like he just really doesn't want to do his fronts. He can be stroppy and opinioned about things but usually backs down pretty quickly. People tell me he is taking the mick and I think this might be true but I'm worried in case there's something else?

:confused:
 
Just run your hand down the back of his tendon. He'll then pick his feet up. Squeezing the chestnut won't do anything.
 
My farrier squeezes the chestnut and it works for him.
The horses at the yard that won't pick their feet up do all have problems causing it, so I would be worried tbh. Is he shod?
 
Have you checked for Mudfever? Mine is very sore with it at the moment and thus tetchy about picking them up as it hurts to bend the fetlock but is fine when ridden.
 
Sounds like picking out his feet may be hurting him? Practise just picking them ip and holding them without picking them out now and then. Be VERY firm when he won't get them up. Give praise when he fies
 
amymay said:
Just run your hand down the back of his tendon. He'll then pick his feet up. Squeezing the chestnut won't do anything.
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This... I also wouldn't pull on feathers if you do. Something I hate and know several horses I can get feet straight up and owner has trouble trying to yank them up.

Once up, hold the toe, far better grip if they try to pull away. I'd do this without doing anything more than practising picking up for a while.

I'd be looking at why though if fine normally - tender underneath, mud fever, leg or back. (Have a broodie who started tucking legs up under her and booting if you tried to pull out - sore back caused by impressive acrobatics in the field). Has anyone else tried to see that it's not just you? (Him taking mick or technique)
 
How old is he? Is he sound and moving well...
When I old boy started with arthritis he hated picking up his feet as it meant his knees and hocks had to flexed a lot and it was painful.

Try asking him just to ever do slightly raise his foot, hold it very low then put it back down and praise. Don't start yanking and leaning ect, just be patient.
 
Buds_mum said:
How old is he? Is he sound and moving well...
When I old boy started with arthritis he hated picking up his feet as it meant his knees and hocks had to flexed a lot and it was painful.

Try asking him just to ever do slightly raise his foot, hold it very low then put it back down and praise. Don't start yanking and leaning ect, just be patient.
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^^^

So this is what worries me.

He's 15 and a big cob. He had his back checked recently and it was fine. The physio managed to get a lovely range of movement out of all his legs and didn't see anything that indicated a change. He has had some issues with mud fever this season but its cleared up nicely with the muddy buddy cream.

He's shod currently only on the fronts. I've been getting his diet up to scratch and am having his fronts off on Friday. He has always been fine with the farrier except the very last time when he reared up, completely out of character and broke his lead rope. The farrier was of the opinion that he was just trying his luck and it was behavioural not physical but I'm not so sure. :(
I've tried picking up his front feet after work to see if stiffness is an issue but he acts much the same.

I wish there was a hard and fast way of knowing for sure. :(
 
I would definitely ask a vet to have a look at him. You mention that he reared the last time the farrier came, which if this is unusual, suggests that perhaps he was pricked by a nail, or something else hurt him enough to cause quite an extreme reaction.

If the farrier accidentally caused him some pain during his last visit, it is possible that the problem may have developed because your horse now has an expectation that when you do something with his feet it is going to hurt. It's really important to rule out pain first, so as has already been suggested it may be worth asking the vet if you can do a bute trial. If this doesn't make any difference to his behaviour at all, then it may be more likely to be the expectation of pain.

If this is the case, just go right back to basics, as though he is a youngster and you are starting from scratch. Make sure he is happy to stand still whilst you touch and rub all around his legs, all the way from top to bottom first. Then move on to gradually ask for a little weight shift, and then build up to actually ask for the foot. Make sure initially you only ask for it for a tiny second, and then let it be put straight back down, and then gradually increase the length of time. It may be helpful to have someone giving him food, or having a haynet whilst you are doing this to help him relax his mind a little and take all the focus away from what you are doing.

The fact that it is a problem that has only recently started (if he was always fine with you before) indicates that there is (or certainly was at one time, perhaps with the farrier) an issue with pain so is a problem that needs to be worked through with patience and understanding to rebuild his confidence.

I wouldn't worry about picking his feet out for a while whilst you work through the problems. Good luck!
 
That sounds like a health issue to me. He can't really tell you any more clearly that picking up his feet hurts.
I suggest that you get vet to check him, possibly with a view to a bute trial. You might find that magnet boots help him.
 
Buds_mum said:
How old is he? Is he sound and moving well...
When I old boy started with arthritis he hated picking up his feet as it meant his knees and hocks had to flexed a lot and it was painful.

Try asking him just to ever do slightly raise his foot, hold it very low then put it back down and praise. Don't start yanking and leaning ect, just be patient.
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I was just about to say the same. My old pony had arthritis in his fetlocks and knees and it used to cripple him too. Bit like a flexion test every time you pick up their legs. As Buds_mum says, you need to take a gently gently approach - you fella is telling you it hurts and you've got to listen!

Only thing I would say is arthritis isn't something only oldies can have, young uns can too!
 
OK, have a look at the facts ;)

- Horse has previous been fine to have all feet cleaned.
- When training a young/feral horse to have feet cleaned, hinds usually take longer than fronts - horses tend to protect their hind feet in order, probably because they're important for a fast getaway.
- This horse, having been fine, has begun to resist having the fronts cleaned.
- This horse, having been fine to shoe, has recently resisted having the fronts shod.
- The horse has not objected to having the hinds cleaned or trimmed?
- In the unlikely event that horse is capable of plotting to annoy you, would you not expect that they would resist having all 4 feet handled (or indeed, random feet) rather than confining their behaviour to the fronts?

From that, I'd conclude that the horse either finds the fronts uncomfortable to lift or have lifted, finds the fronts uncomfortable when asked to put all weight on one front hoof, or remembers discomfort with the farrier - though this may be a one off e.g. nail bind, or exactly the same discomfort he feels when you are cleaning his front feet.
 
Yes I agree. The farrier is coming tomorrow so I shall ask his opinion, then from there I thinks its probably to the vet. :(

I tried again this morning. The very softly softly approach. His favourite treats and lots of reassurance. No budge. Kicking out with his front feet and barging and getting quite upset. Argh, if only they could talk. :(
 
Moobucket said:
Yes I agree. The farrier is coming tomorrow so I shall ask his opinion, then from there I thinks its probably to the vet. :(

I tried again this morning. The very softly softly approach. His favourite treats and lots of reassurance. No budge. Kicking out with his front feet and barging and getting quite upset. Argh, if only they could talk. :(
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He *is* talking. In fact he's shouting as loudly as he can. This poor horse is in pain, why are you messing about? If you ring today you will probably get a vets appointment tomorrow, if you wait until the farrier has seen him again, you won't get an appointment until after the weekend. This horse has obviously been in pain for over a month, since the farrier's last visit.
 
Ask your vet about the horse being a potential shiverer in front - it's rare but does exist, I have seen one. He wasn't bargy but found it very difficult to lift front legs and initially when he did he lifted them straight out in front and sort of sat back a bit (poor description but hopefully you know what I mean), then was able to bend at the knee fairly normally. Didn't affect him when ridden (in fact he was a very comfortable ride!).
 
Well what a horrible little toad he is. ;) Out came the farrier and he was as good as gold. I got him to take his shoes off and double check all around his feet. Totally fine. Nothing at all to see. He went out and was charging around like a loony, so I thought... right I'll pick his feet out, and there we go. Just planted again. The only way I can get him to lift his feet is by bribing him with his hay net. (How to make a really petite woman look like a fool, make her try and lift a 15.2 big black cob off the floor...)

Cobs huh... who'd have them. Guess who's spent much of the morning learning nice respectful ground work. :mad::o
 
As AM asked.
If this is the only sticking point id say it's a problem with you lifting not him taking mick.
As in my earlier post. Did you run had round a different way, pull feathers etc

Agree with fburton too I tend to work on that problem unless it had been a mick take on other things too and was a broader respect issue?
 
I would still get him checked out.....my mare has a high pain threshold and can mask pain very well, sometimes she will only show it to people she knows, it could be the farrier raised his adrenline which then mean't he felt better!
 
Horses don't 'take the mick'. Something is bothering him and it is likely to be pain related. When my mare gets lami, before she even starts to look pottery, she is reluctant to pick up her front feet. Normally she is great. Not saying it is lami (though I wouldn't rule that out) but I would certainly say it's pain related. My gelding is really bad with his front feet and will snatch them down quite sharply. Sometimes he's impossible to trim. He has kissing spines and sometimes having his feet held up causes his back to hurt.

ETA: Just seen your update. Still would not rule out pain. Sometimes horses will show problems to people they know well and hide them from strangers. The mare at my yard with gastric ulcers only refused to be ridden my me and her owner. She would work fine for strangers. Vets thought therefore it was a behavioural problem and that we were being too soft. But then when she was scoped they found really bad ulcers. After they were treated, she was back to her normal self and letting me and her owner ride her no problem.
 
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Moobucket said:
Well what a horrible little toad he is. ;) Out came the farrier and he was as good as gold. I got him to take his shoes off and double check all around his feet. Totally fine. Nothing at all to see. He went out and was charging around like a loony, so I thought... right I'll pick his feet out, and there we go. Just planted again. The only way I can get him to lift his feet is by bribing him with his hay net. (How to make a really petite woman look like a fool, make her try and lift a 15.2 big black cob off the floor...)

Cobs huh... who'd have them. Guess who's spent much of the morning learning nice respectful ground work. :mad::o
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Cobs indeed! The one I share used to do this to me but would lift his feet straight away for his owner. He also likes to lean on me when I do his left fronts whilst nudging my bum. Now I take a deep breath glare at him and snarl 'behave' lol. I think they like to test us. I must have done something right as I picked his feet out in the field last week without any argument.
Good luck with the manners :D It's all part of their charm.
 
He seems to be alot happier about lifting his feet with a hay net. Funny that food should over ride any other thought process... but then he is a cob.

I am going to see how it goes and be aware that something may be lurking there in the background. The back lady says he is fine, and as I start to bring him into more work now I'm hoping something will either become apparent or disapear entirely.

He's alot happier without his front shoes on. I wonder if he had a stone in his shoe or some other experience to make him a little sore that has made him a little sensitive about the whole process? Either way, time will tell. Thanks for all the responses everyone. :p
 
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