Talk to me about ex-hunters. . .

[TarrSteps]

We do have hunting where I'm from but it's nothing like here and the horses that do it are rarely made or ridden only for the discipline, unless they've been imported for the job, in which case they rarely make it into the general population. So my experience with horses made initially/only for the job is limited to the last few years here.

Now I meet a fair number of horses who have done little else before bein g sold into general riding horse situations. Obviously one should not generalise and a lot depends on the quality of riding/training and the horse itself but this situation certainly seems to throw up some common patterns.

In an effort to increase my knowledge about these sorts of transitions could people talk to me a bit about their experiences, please. I know most people on here who hunt also do other disciplines so it's not so much about making the horses in the first place, more about any retraining considerations.

 

[Lolo]

I'll come back to this! Phone not playing!

 

[Goldenstar]

I came to horses through hunting so it was my start point for what horses do.
All our horses go to the hounds it's something I like them to have on their cv as its a fun happy job they could do in their future.
In my mind there is a difference between a hunter and a horse that goes hunting .
My OH's horse is a hunter that's his job he's an ID he was started with this job in mind and his early training was all pointing in that direction ( he did do some showing which he loathed )
My horses do lots of things and I suppose it's fair to say I keep them to train them I did have a hunter for a while and it's a completly different experiance having one you just keep to hunt .
With mine I spend a lot of time worrying will they damage them selves ? Get strong and unruly in the hand ? Are they doing too much roadwork and wearing out their joints ?
The main issue I think you get retraining hunters is they work long days and work through fatigue that we would expect say a young dressage horse to do because to this they tend to get tight in their backs and and it tightens the paces making it hard to keep them loose and supple in their movement
Its also damaging to the contact as neither the horse or the rider can really look after this over a long and tiring day the you would seek to in say competion horse.
I lunge the hunters a lot over poles during the season and work LLD and LDR to try to keep them as supple and loose as possible.
One of the issues you may come across retraining hunters is that the best ones know its their job and everything pales in comparison to "the job"so they easily bored and not interested in other types of work ( fatty my OH's horse is like this).
They are often not as bold as people think they are as they have done scary stuff in a group with the thrill of the chase to keep them going while our horses all are used to being away from the field at the hounds not all hunters are hunted like this so some can be bad hacks when alone .
The way hunters jump is governed completly by the land a hunter has hunted over where we are we jump upright timber so our horses need a different skill set to horses who hunt over the classic big hedges of the traditional hunting print .
Ours need to jump neatly an upright fence on a short run in out of hock deep mud not the same skill at all.
So what type of country the horse had hunted in would give you an insight into where you might need to start with the jumping.

 

[Mickyjoe]

Here in Ireland, hunters that are produced (by the really knowledgeable people) have been trained up specifically for the job and for the terrain that they can expect to meet. They will have been lunged on and off banks at the beginning and allowed to find their feet that way.
In big bank country where there will often be a ditch on either side, the schooled horses will pop on to the bank, stick to it like glue and then in their own time, pick their spot and explode off over the ditch on the other side.

It's a whole art of its own and one which I am no expert on, but the likes of Chris Ryan from the Scarteen is a master at the job.

As the country varies so much, horses are often produced for the terrain they can expect to face, be it the aforementioned double banks or the stone walls in Galway.

 

[TarrSteps]

Thank you both very much! Very interesting. Gs, you touched on a few very pertinent points which I've encountered.

 

[BeckyD]

Goldenstar I just wanted to say that's really interesting; thank you.

 

[chestnut cob]

One of the issues you may come across retraining hunters is that the best ones know its their job and everything pales in comparison to "the job"so they easily bored and not interested in other types of work ( fatty my OH's horse is like this).
They are often not as bold as people think they are as they have done scary stuff in a group with the thrill of the chase to keep them going while our horses all are used to being away from the field at the hounds not all hunters are hunted like this so some can be bad hacks when alone .

This was my experience. My last horse was an "ex-hunter". I got him to do a bit of everything with and eventually gave up (possibly due to my inability to convince him he wanted to do another job) and went back to hunting him. He quite liked a bit of DR and enjoyed schooling at home, though only occasionally. He had some arthritic issues (due to hunting so much I think) which didn't help but he was one horse on the hunting field and another doing other jobs. He would jump all day out hunting but not on his own - alone, he was nappy, un-genuine and difficult.

Easily bored is an accurate description of mine. He'd hunt all day long and lived for it, but give him something else to do and he was quickly bored of it. Also fine to hack, as long as he got in plenty of trotting/canter/ popping little logs etc. He hacked alone fine but had no interest in competing/ being in the ring alone, and little interest in jumping/ XC alone (v nappy). Hunting, he'd be up front all day if you let him. Lazy in every circumstance apart from hunting and it was the only time he ever really lit up.

In his case, he had no interest in a career change and was most happy when we went back to just hunting as his "job"! When he was hunting, he was happy, interested and generally quite jolly. No hunting = miserable, grumpy, lazy horse. So, no real re-training in my horse's case. I tried to do different things with him, he tolerated it but didn't love it and wasn't truly happy until we returned to hunting. Probably partly down to my inability to make things interesting enough for him, maybe, but having had 8-9 years of it before I had him (and I was regularly asked out hunting if he'd been a Master's horse), that was the job he wanted to do so I gave up asking for much else!

 

[glamourpuss]

It's funny people posting about hunters only being interested in their 'job'
My old event horse became a little 'sticky' competing. I decided that some hunting might freshen him up & give him some motivation & spark.
He took to hunting like a duck to water & had an absolute ball.....sadly this meant that he decided that anything else was far too dull & I ended up having to retire him from competition to become a pure hunter

 

[Baydale]

I think hunters have as tough a job as event horses and what Goldenstar says about the fatigue is so true - as is the other stuff.

I was always paranoid about soundness so ours would be schooled to make them as even on both reins and as light on their forehands as possible, thereby hopefully not loading/favouring either leg. One horse being out of action put a lot of pressure on the other four so it was in mine and their best interests to keep them all "on the road" (quaint old skool expression there.)

I would work on straightness a lot and expect them to be able to shorten or lengthen to a fence rather than going left or right to make room - that used to do my head in when people would run into you on their horses as they ran along a hedge before take-off!

Ditto Goldenstar re stretching them a lot, often lungeing in draw reins so no weight on their back which must have been a relief!

Wherever possible they were all worked evenly across the days, always making sure it was the right horse for the right day (Lincs and Leics days were very different!) and all would be schooled over ditches (aka dykes) hunt jumps, hedges etc before the season starting with any "remedial" schooling being done as and when required. If a horse had had a day being asked big questions, it would then have an easier day next time out. I never let the boss have favourites either as that would mean one would get way more work than the others.

All ours had to be bold as they would be out in front, but equally had to be well-mannered enough to go in the field too. I was often the one at the back, "whoa-ing" a lot and reminding them of their manners.

Soooo, as far as retraining goes I would expect them to be - sweeping generalisations ahoy - sore, stiff, one-sided, rude and hugely excitable whenever they heard a dog bark (I know this because I've taken hunters eventing and eventers hunting and only HumungaHorse aka Mr So-Laid-Back-He-Was-Horizontal showed the levels of manners I desired.) Good luck with it, TarrSteps, if anyone can do it, you can.

 

[Goldenstar]

I think hunting is tougher physically for them but mentally less so than eventing.
That's if the horse enjoys hunting those that don't have a miserable time .

 

[Firewell]

I bought one! He was a gorgeous gorgeous horse. He hacked alone and in company and was totally bomb proof with everything. He was quite strong though and would really take a hold which I found a bit disconcerting.
In the school he worked really nicely. He was a bit stiff and plank like but once he was warmed up, he was lovely. To jump I adored him... not for everybody as he would see a fence and just whisk you in! For someone who likes to put their leg on into a fence and adjust their horse they may not have liked it but for me i'm a wimp and I loved the feeling of security he gave down the rein going into a jump. V easy to see a stride on as forwards (not rushy).

Beautiful horse unfortunately he did have forelimb lameness which became apparent after a while and I think that was from his hard hunting life (he was 9 when I got him and had been a masters horse).

 

[Firewell]

Ooo I forgot to say mine was Irish, imported when 5. 16.3hh 3/4 TB with King of Diamonds line so a nice stamp of horse in general.

 

[wench]

I had one. Really nice horse, was excellent to hack out in company, and was fine on his own if you were a competent rider.

He generally would throw a tantrum if he went to show; 99% of the time I was eliminated or came last. This was partially due to my nieveity, partly due to lack of transport, and partly to do with his bad attitude.

I should have had plenty of lessons on him; I couldn't ride him properly. I should also have had a proper vets work up to see if there was anything wrong with him, or if it really was the toys coming out of the pram.

Limited transport did not help, as to get more consistant he needed to be going out every weekend. I should also have sent him to a pro to see what they could have done with him.

Out hunting he was fine, unless another horse rammed up his backside then it would get a good boot.

 

[Llanali]

GoldenStar and Baydale have largely covered my thoughts on the ridden side, and Firewells comments regarding her horse really taking her to a fence would ring true for me as well.

On a management side of things, I found that some of the hunters struggled adjusting to the slower pace of life and less routine of a private home. The hunt yards I have experienced and worked ran like clockwork, and the fitness was worked to a fine art, and turnout limited- they can't go out daily if they are hunting several times a week!

When removed from that environment, I found some to be stressed by the concept of not having a 6am feed, 8am exercise, 10am hay, 12 noon lunch etc. and also along side with this came issues regarding DIY yards which tend to lack structure- totally beyond the comprehension of my Irish hunters that different horses get fed at different times....that said I have a theory about all Irish imports being food orientated anyway.

On another note, regarding competing. We always travelled hunters tacked up, and the first few non hunting outings tended to be wild, and they were totally alien to the concept of tacking up when they arrived. Likewise, rarely did they travel alone- not always an issue but it did threw up a few wobbly lonely moments in a 9 year old that I would have more expected in a 4 year old! Other little bits- travelling boots, I don't use anyway, but many do, and they can causeq funny reactions in hunters that have never come across such a strange idea!

 

[BandA]

I have one. I got him aged 6 having spent his life having spent his life Ireland hunting well.

He is now 12 and the loveliest horse I have ever had the pleasure to own. He has evented to novice and placed BD novice on his only outing. Unfortunately suspensory issues and arthritis mean he is now semi-retired but I do plan to take him out with the bloodhounds this year.

He is fabulous on his own or in company and loves all work. If anything he finds hunting with foxhounds about the most boring thing to do as we don't have the best country so there is too much standing still/ roadwork etc. He can get strong but that only really came after he dropped back down to BE100 level and I think it was more to do with the lack of a challenge. He also struggled with the dressage as he's far too long from front to back and has bit of a shuffly stride, but always tried his absolute hardest. And it's pretty impossible to get him wrong to a fence as brain to feet connection is very quick! Love him!

 

[TarrSteps]

Very interesting, guys! Thank you so much.

Baydale, I use my experience of your horses as my standard but I suspect people like you and Gs, with a view to the wider world, are not necessarily representative.

I ask the question as I have now seen a fair number of horses from hunting backgrounds that have been bought by relatively inexperienced owners (not necessarily novice riders, just people with narrow experience) on the reasoning that if they will do the 'hard' job of hunting they will be brave and straightforward in other circumstances. I have seen patterns emerging and just wanted to check my experiences against knowledgeable input.

Interesting about the routine and hard work. While I have little experience with hunters, I have a fair bit with other hard working types and have found similar, that not all thrive in what people consider 'nicer' lives.

 

[Goldenstar]

When hunters go to novices I think the issue can be that many hunters have very little training they have learnt to do their job with a sort of common purpose with the rider and as many of the riders hunting have little formal training as well and dont look great riders position wise inexperianced people think well it must be an easy horse if x hunts it.
The issue is that x although not a good rider in that they perhaps have never had lessons and have a fairly funky way of staying on board x is however very brave and unconcerned by the fact that the contact feels more like water skiing than riding and the horse kind of makes a lot of the desisions and you can't stop steer or turn using the convential aids but through a series of aids x and the horse have worked out between themselves over a couple of seasons .
Remove the horse from x and the job it knows give it a more cautious rider and all hell breaks loose.
I have leant over the years not interfer in the arrangements Mr GS makes with his horses with Fatty these include Fatty always deciding on the route for hacks and Fatty generally choosing the speed to go including when he fancies a gallop.

 

[chestnut cob]

travelling boots, I don't use anyway, but many do, and they can causeq funny reactions in hunters that have never come across such a strange idea!

Ha! Mine had a meltdown when I put travel boots on, was convinced he would never be able to walk in them! Stopped using them pretty quickly and never gone back!

 

[MandyMoo]

In my mind there is a difference between a hunter and a horse that goes hunting .

Agree with this entirely. All three of my horses have been hunting (Monty has hunted most seasons since he was 10 and still hunts now at age 23), but they are no means ''a hunter'' as such, as they spend a lot of their time doing flat work/dressage/show jumping etc.

However, a lot of the horses on my livery yard are ''hunters'' as that is what they have been bred for, trained for, and it is all they do. The yard I keep my horses on is predominantly a hunt yard...i.e. it is very quiet in the summer whilst they are all turned out, and then around this time of year they come in for fittening work, go cubbing, hunt for the season, and then get turned out again for the summer. Hunting is all they do, and are either ridden by my YO (previous whip in for South Notts, and then a field master) or by his staff or people who hire out the horse for a days hunting. They live very regimented lives; limited turnout in the season, feeds at particular times, exercises at particular times and walker time at certain times of the week...but I think they take to the routine.
Most of them are IDs, and hunting is all they have done. They often nap and don't like to be alone, and often struggle to jump single fences on their own as they're so used to being in a group out in the field, or in a group on hunter exercise at home.

As others have said, hunters have ''the job'', and it is a very physically demanding job - which I believe only a true ''hunter'' can cope with season after season. A competition horse that just does a bit of hunting probably wouldn't enjoy life as a pure hunter as they wouldn't have the mental stimulation that SJ/Eventing?Dr gives them

Edited to add: I am in no way an expert haha, I have probably said a load of rubbish. But this has been my experience of being on a hunters yard since I was born (my mum has kept her horses there for 25-30years, and I am 21 so have been around it, and since the age of 10 had a pony there and helped exercise the hunters.

 

[hoggedmane]

I bought a 10 year old mare that had only hunted all her life and was being used as a masters horse when I bought her. She is a big 17hh shire x TB and had been hunted by men.

She is now 22 and still a star! She jumps everything - first by preference - she gives my friends BSJA a lead cross country. She loves life and doing any activity. I took her on a residential dressage course when she was 16 and they said I should affiliate her. I now do sponsored rides and the odd hunter trial as well as have lessons on her. She is keen and very sensitive (I think transitions rather than ask for them!) I would not describe her as a novice ride. She is usually bombproof but will spook at unusual things - last week it was a glimpse of some sheep under a railway bridge. She is not nappy and loves to hack alone.

She does get very excited still about going out in the trailer and can be difficult to tie up at events as she is so ready for the off. This has meant I haven't gone down the competing at dressage/ showing route with her. I would think she would learn eventually.

She does get very excited and sweats up at the drop of a hat if she hears dogs barking in the distance. I have never hunted her so she has not hunted for 10 years now (she was on loan 10 years ago and went once) I don't think she will grow out of that.

She has never really been lame (the odd day when she has stepped on a stone etc) or sick or sorry.

She is my horse of a lifetime and I love her.

 

[DabDab]

Interesting about the routine and hard work. While I have little experience with hunters, I have a fair bit with other hard working types and have found similar, that not all thrive in what people consider 'nicer' lives.

I took on a couple of ex hunters (both belonging to one person - it was intended that one would be an showjumper for her and one would be an eventer for her daughter), thinking that they would be similar to ex racers in terms of getting them to adjust to a new job and way of life - BIG mistake. What I think I discovered from that tiny snippet of experience, is that while ex racers generally live for the work, ex hunters live for the job. While showjumping everything I did annoyed them - they didn't like me regulating their pace, telling them where to take off, telling them to go straight, or even telling them which jumps to jump in which direction.

As someone who has never hunted much myself, I find this discussion really really interesting. Great contributions

 

[Jesstickle]

On a management side of things, I found that some of the hunters struggled adjusting to the slower pace of life and less routine of a private home. The hunt yards I have experienced and worked ran like clockwork, and the fitness was worked to a fine art, and turnout limited- they can't go out daily if they are hunting several times a week!

When removed from that environment, I found some to be stressed by the concept of not having a 6am feed, 8am exercise, 10am hay, 12 noon lunch etc. and also along side with this came issues regarding DIY yards which tend to lack structure- totally beyond the comprehension of my Irish hunters that different horses get fed at different times....that said I have a theory about all Irish imports being food orientated anyway.

On another note, regarding competing. We always travelled hunters tacked up, and the first few non hunting outings tended to be wild, and they were totally alien to the concept of tacking up when they arrived. Likewise, rarely did they travel alone- not always an issue but it did threw up a few wobbly lonely moments in a 9 year old that I would have more expected in a 4 year old! Other little bits- travelling boots, I don't use anyway, but many do, and they can causeq funny reactions in hunters that have never come across such a strange idea!

Sorry, off tack a bit, but this is why I think so many people struggle with ex racers too. They are used to their routine and livery can be a bit of a shock to the system. I suppose it is true of any horse that has been on a pro yard and had a real job to do?

Sorry, I only have horses which hunt, no hunters so nothing useful to add on retraining

 

[ironhorse]

A good friend had hunters that were also hired out and used in his riding school. Several also carried side saddles, which is how I ended up riding and showing them ( I also trained a couple to carry side saddles).
The best one, although a heavy weight IDx quite liked doing a dressage test, even with a novice rider on board. But he was really hard to motivate to jump in cold blood -I regularly got eliminated in WH classes and at hunter trials (unless it was a pairs). His absolute favourite thing apart from hunting was team chasing, despite being hopelessly the wrong physique.
His devotion to hunting was such that he was a complete plod through the summer -despite never being completely let down in the closed season - and magically transformed into this bouncy, jolly thing THE MINUTE the combines came out.
One other point for people who are hoping to show ex-hunters, however beautiful their paces and conformation - don't bother. Being in the ring with a load of other horses is just a great excuse to hooley about - he would have given some ROR competitors a run for their money despite his size

 

[gunnergundog]

It is almost impossible to generalise as there are hunters and hunters and everyone has different standards. All my hunters have come via eventing. These horses are very different to those that come from Ireland and are used as hirelings.

My horses are confident individuals that will go off on point, field master and leave the field when asked; they will shorten/lengthen, change legs etc etc. Hirelings tend to need to follow the herd; this is NOT their fault....they are generally exercised as a group and never asked to do anything as an individual, so when the field pulls up, they pull up. If someone amateurish (no offence intended) gets on and asks them something out of the ordinary....they say 'maybe' and the jockey backs off so they go 'OK....NO WAY JOSE !'

Prince & Princess Michael of Kent's hunters always used to go to Stephen Hadley years ago for a pre-season tune-up; they were professionally produced and well schooled. They were out and out hunters but could have held their own in the BE Novice/Intermediate eventing field at that time. Likewise, the hunters belonging to people like Ulrica Murray-Smith.

The horses were worked hard but looked after with an attention to detail that is often lacking today.

 

[TarrSteps]

I did say it's impossible to generalise. Part of my initial surprise came because the tiny bit of information I had about making hunters here came from very "high end" people who also produced horses for other sports and their hunters rode, allowing for the demands of the job, much like the other working horses I'm used to.

I suspect many of the horses I've met since have not been produced with such a well rounded approach and their first real contact with other disciplines is maybe a bit with their seller and mostly with their new owners. It has seemed fairly obvious to me that these horses are often "green", at least in the context of their new jobs, so the problems that crop up come from lack of education and exposure not innate unwillingness. But, almost without exception, pointing out that they might not have done whatever it is they are struggling to do in their previous lives has been met with disbelief, so I mostly just wanted to check with other sources that I hadn't missed a trick.

Frankly, I think the sort of hunters you're talking about would not likely end up in the sorts of homes I'm thinking of, for reasons of price alone!

 

[gunnergundog]

The Irish breed some good horses; they also breed some good nagsmen.....some of them have emigrated over here! They are VERY good at making raw talent look like the finished article! Buyer beware!

 

[Pidgeon]

Pidge had been on a hunt yard in Ireland before I bought him.
What I found was he was very possessive over food - still is but a lot better. Taking a contact meant go quicker! Schooling took a while to come back, he must have been well schooled at one stage but took a while to come back to it. He thought coloured SJ's were an obstacle to go round, however once he realised they were to jump he was fine, in fact nothing fazes him dressing or filler wise, it is like he doesn't clock them just the fact its a jump. He is one sided and has the scars in the corner of his mouth as well, hence finally settling on a myler comfort snaffle. He has 'cruise control' canter paces as in I set the pace in the first couple of strides and then just sit there and he stays at the same pace - awesome when hacking! Never ever have to place him to a fence as he sorts it out himself, whether he takes a flyer, perfect stride or gets in deep he will do his utmost to jump it cleanly. Same as the angle to a fence as he is not bothered what angle you jump on, workmanlike in his attitude. Ditches he is brilliant with as he just assesses the ditch gathers himself, launches and we are the other side, we often babysit others over ditches XC schooling as he will pop them all day every day. Oh the only other thing was he was on a hunt yard as a hireling so had no personality when I got him, it took a couple of months to come out as despite his size, 17hh ISH, he is a sensitive sole!
ETS: fun rides are a big no no as they blow his brains, and we end up bouncing rocking horse style and wired up no end.

 

[tiramisu]

My cob came from a hunt yard in Ireland. He was fab and super keen...used to going fast in a straight line!! Taking a hold means go faster, still does occasionally tbh when something blows his brain...the only way to stop is literally just to stop riding, drop the reins and sick like a sack of spuds :lol: he realises the 'Chase' is over!!! the schooling took a while but we're getting there, and the hacking is fab, he def takes his confidence from others but alone if he gets a bit worried a big stonking trot works wonders!

 

[wench]

I don't think there is any problem with hunters, if they have had proper schooling at home, rather than just rammed around the hunting field.

My hunter described above was my first horse, was it an ideal purchase, probably not, but he was safe, if a little bit temperamental. However, given a second chance, I wouldn't purchase a horse that had just been hunting. I would like it to have had more of an education. If mine had been out to small shows when he was younger, he would have been the perfect all-rounder.

 

[Orangehorse]

Trouble is, is an ex-hunter going to knackered? Because there are an awful lot of horses that are best as hunters having got to the limit with eventing/show jumping, etc. and the hunting field is where they are happiest and people tend to hang on to a good hunter until it can't hunt.

I don't mean those horses that are hunted as part of their education before being sold to do eventing, etc. I think it is nice that people are still taking their youngesters out hunting so they can always do that as a job in the future.

I personally think that the BEST hunters are those that need the field to make them bold, they are just a bit more cautious and careful and therefore safer for the rider. So my mare who definitely had her limits going cross country or show jumping was a superb hunter as I knew that she would either jump and clear it, or not take it on. My eventer however, was an uncomfortable hunter as he thought he could jump the moon and that he knew best and I had one or two crunching falls off him because he would jump what was in front of him.

I know of a lady who bought an ex hunter as she wanted something quiet to ride round the lanes as a hack. It came highly recommended, but she found out that it wouldn't go out on a hack by itself as it had always been in company.