Talk to me about pointers

[Love]

Hoping to get some insight from fellow pointer owners/lovers!

My fiance and I have both grown up with dogs but have yet to have our own as a couple (it has always been a case of when, not if). We are very active, love to be outside, long walks, hiking holidays etc etc. I obviously have the horses too and fiance is a keen mountain biker. Although neither of us have done it before we have also mentioned how we would like to get into "picking-up" (so appropriate training for us and 4-legged friend would be needed here). My fiance's job means the dog could go with him on most days to work and on any days he can't I only work 5 mins away from home so can go home on my breaks and pick them up after work to come to the yard with me.

We have both fallen in love with the pointer breed (I prefer English, my fiance prefers German but we have both agreed we would love a wirehaired German pointer).
We currently live in rented accommodation where we sadly aren't allowed pets but are getting married this September and are hoping to put the wheels in motion to buy our own house soon after - hence wanting to research as much as we can now!

I've read lots online and joined a few pointer facebook groups - is there anything we should know? Things to look out for, be mindful of? Obviously we only want to purchase from a reputable breeder - are there any breeder suggestions to research? We are Worcestershire based but happy to travel. Would this breed suit us?

Many thanks in advance!

 

[ArklePig]

I only have half a pointer (x springer), but I knew a few previously which attracted me to the breed. I also did not set out to get a pointer, she was supposed to be a lab!

They are prone to hip dysplasia, so please ensure your breeder has done the right tests and that you know what you're looking for. Separation anxiety is also very real with them from what I have read. In fact, I described my dog's separation anxiety with a trainer over the phone and she said 'she's not a pointer by any chance is she?' due to the way hers presents being very common amongst them. My dog is class, and very pointer like in the way she behaves especially out and about (recall training was tricky!) but her temperament is very springer in ways too so not overly relevant maybe.

There's also the group Pointers for Adoption Ireland and I believe some of the groups rehome to the UK if you're at all interested in a rescue.

I hope someone is along to give you some advice soon! I am following with interest to learn about the breed as the more I learn about them the more of it I see in her, so sorry I can't be of more help!

ETA- Mine is half English pointer, just to clarify!

 

[Christmascinnamoncookie]

EllieBeast has a working adult and just got a pup. Hopefully she’ll see this.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

I 'think' we've got a part pointer rehome, she was advertised as a 'chocolate' lab. She is a lovely dog, 11 months old now, very affectionate, very agile, excellent recall, mad as a hatter.

 

[ArklePig]

Oh yes I forgot very affectionate and mad as a hatter! Mine is positively bonkers in the best possible way.

 

[Morwenna]

My sister has a rescue Pointer. She is lovely and one of the most affectionate dogs I have ever met but is also mad as a box of frogs. From her experience and talking to gundog trainers they are high energy and need a job. Their instinct is to range long distances hunting so walking them off lead can be difficult depending on where you live.
There’s a guy in my village that has two GWPs and they are incredible dogs. He runs with them and I often see him crashing through the stream and up the banks into the woods with them.

 

[CorvusCorax]

There's a couple of GWPs have trained with us and they are smashing dogs, very drivey and always on the go...if you like that sort of thing!!

The working ones from the continent are hard as nails.

 

[Love]

Thanks for your replies so far everyone!

Absolutely wouldn't be against a rescue - Dogs trust actually had a lovely young pointer in a few weeks back who I fell in love with but sadly just not the right time for us.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

There's a couple of GWPs have trained with us and they are smashing dogs, very drivey and always on the go...if you like that sort of thing!!

The working ones from the continent are hard as nails.

Ours was rehomed because at 5 months, she was too much for her then owner, who already had an 11 month old Lab. She is certainly more challenging than our working-bred Labs although very well meaning.

 

[HufflyPuffly]

My brother and one of my friends have GSP's bitches and both are completely nuts (despite being bred and raised at either ends of the world NZ and UK), lovely but bonkers (brothers was a rescue due to her being bonkers).

Brother has a GSP dog too, he is much more laid back by comparison and friend has a GWP dog who again is way more chill than his short haired female partner in crime.

 

[misst]

There are 2 locally. One I have known since a puppy out walking most days now 7 years old and the other is about 3 and moved into the area recently. The 7 year old has been a gentleman from the start. He is friendly and respectful of space/other dogs, really obedient and is known by everyone locally. Even when he was a bouncy pup he was pretty well behaved and a credit to his owner.
The 3yo I have no idea what sort of puppy he was but he is a very nice person now. Not quite as perfect as Stanley the Gentleman (as he is known locally ) but still a very very nice dog. If I was getting a big dog a pointer would be on my list of possibilities along with golden retrievers.

 

[Christmascinnamoncookie]

We have a Stanley pointer, white tip on his tail. He’s a big lad, likes to nick Bear’s ball. There’s also Luna, a youngster, very friendly, great recall, also a white tip on her tail.

 

[Clodagh]

There's a couple of GWPs have trained with us and they are smashing dogs, very drivey and always on the go...if you like that sort of thing!!

The working ones from the continent are hard as nails.

This all day. The continental bred working GWP are hard, often dog aggressive and completely insane. Make a spaniel look like a Pekingese.
I do have a secret soft spot for the LHP, they seem ( I have lessons with a breeder) a bit more pleasant and friendly. Still nuts mind ?

 

[misst]

This all day. The continental bred working GWP are hard, often dog aggressive and completely insane. Make a spaniel look like a Pekingese.
I do have a secret soft spot for the LHP, they seem ( I have lessons with a breeder) a bit more pleasant and friendly. Still nuts mind ?

That is so interesting because I have a much easier view of them! Just shows it all depends on the dog I guess and the owner. The ones round here are so nice! I don't suppose I will get a big dog anytime but proves the need for research not just going by 2 random dogs locally!

 

[Clodagh]

That is so interesting because I have a much easier view of them! Just shows it all depends on the dog I guess and the owner. The ones round here are so nice! I don't suppose I will get a big dog anytime but proves the need for research not just going by 2 random dogs locally!

To be fair I don’t know many, but the ones I do know are all unpleasant dogs. But like all breeds I guess it’s all about the owners.
There is a good one here locally, although he is aloof and very manic, is amazing at trialling wounded deer.

 

[misst]

So strange on the only 2 I know (small sample I guess) I would have had one in a heartbeat. Lucky we have 2 terriers already

 

[spacefaer]

My Oh had working pointers which he used on Scottish grouse moors. They're brighter in general than show-bred ones but they can be stubborn, driven, need a lot of exercise and are not the easiest to train, particularly not for comparatively novice dog owners/trainers.

He'd happily give you advice on the breed if you decide to proceed.

As an aside, pointers "point" they're not retrievers so are not normally used for picking up.....
There are plenty of examples of non traditional breeds of dog being used for picking up, but if you wanted an easy going, easy trained dog for that job, get a Labrador ?

 

[windswoo]

One of my first dogs was an English pointer and she was very good with people but not overly pleasant with other dogs (not aggressive but aloof), however she adored the dog she grew up with which was my first dog and then was very protective of our third dog after first one had died and we really didn't know how she'd react.
They are working dogs, but also quite lazy, so if you can give them lots of exercise and stimulation for part of the day - they will then sleep for the rest of it.
If you've got horses and the OH does mountain biking then that should give the dog plenty of exercise.
She absolutely adored me even before I had her (dad's dog) and they do become very attached to people. I would have one again if the situation came up - I think they're lovely dogs

 

[millitiger]

I had a GSP and he was a fruitloop!

Amazingly loyal, easy to train recall (would come anywhere and off anything, if i whistled), intelligent, great with the horses, LOVED his days out at big horsey events.

However, for every positive, there was another side.
I was 100% his person and he would try and protect me, even if I didn't need it- he had to wear a muzzle at the vets, as he didn't like them near ME.
He had insanely ENDLESS energy, I wouldn't want one if you have an 40hr/wk job!
Aloof with strangers, human and canine- he never picked a fight but would stand his ground if something was in his face.
He was tough as old boots and was like a grumpy old man, set in his ways, from the day I picked him up as a pup.

Reading above, maybe he was more continental breeding!

I absolutely adored him and I would love another one but they are very much their own people... I have whippets now and they are an absolute doddle in comparison!

 

[Moobli]

My experience with GWPs is with the gamekeeper working type, although I believe they are one of the few dual purpose breeds. I like them - drivey, trainable, energetic and very active but can be prone to dog on dog aggression (particularly the males) and they can be very stubborn, very hard and suspicious of strangers. I wouldn’t think they’d be an ideal first dog unless you have a mentor as they aren’t an “easy” breed. GSPs are generally just as energetic but tend to have a softer nature in general. Italian Spinoni might be worth a look as they are also a HPR with a beard and are quite like GWP in looks but heavier and generally have a much more easygoing, friendly nature.

 

[druid]

Of all the HPRs GWPs and Brittanys are the two I would tell new dog owners to avoid. GWPs are often dog agressive, make nosie and hard mouthed. There are of course good examples but it's much more difficult to find an exceptional one than say a GSP. English pointers though beuatiful dogs with amazing noses aren't required to retriever so finding a line with solid retrieving can be tough.

If your partner wants to pick up a Lab is a much more sensible option. If you're set on a pointer a GSP will be easier to source from good lines, a good breeder and a good working background.

 

[TPO]

My mum had a GWP a few years back and the dog was hard work.







She was the most difficult pup out of a lifetime of dogs. Didn't sleep through a night for at least 3wks and was very vocal.







Very much a one person dog and very needy. Lovely temperament and very friendly with people and other dogs but my mum was 100% her only person.







Very intelligent. Mum bought her to train/trial/compete and Snook picked everything up very quickly. Mum is very experienced with dogs and training but Snook was her first gun dog and first attempt at Field Trials. I don't know how it works but Snook won her first novice at her first go.







She needed a lot of work; mentally and physically. There was more focus on the mental side because the more physical work she did the fitter she got then the more she needed. Mum didn't work so could devote hours daily to Snook's training and exercise. All the GWP people had permission from local landowners to train on their ground. GWP work at a far distance (eventually) & cover a lot of ground so a walk around a local park or using playing fields ultimately won't cut it.







I can't emphasis enough how needy she was. She also thought she was the same size as her BFF Norfolk Terrier so that caused some carnage around the house and to laps! She had a tail as she was bought during the docking ban. She damaged her tail a lot just around the house against walls and radiators as well as taking out a few kneecaps. She was VERY high energy and a bit of a fruitloop.







My friend who has a pest control business (outdoor things like rabbits as well as vermin) and who shoots had one and it didn't go well. His previous experience was all with labs and a GWP is a different kettle of fish. The dog was outdoor kennelled, went to work with him and did lots of shooting/beating type stuff. I don't know anything about how it was trained but despite his best efforts he couldn't put enough work into it for trying. He ended up giving it away to an experienced game keeper and I think even the keeper struggled with it. This was a male too. It was really aloof and would take off if the notion struck.







I did a wee bit of training with my dog (working cocker) with mums old GWP/GSP trainer. He's super experienced with the breed, runs training clubs, breeds, competes etc and the work he puts into them is something else. Again he's a pro and he's setting them up to do the job from day 1 but they don't sound like an easy breed.







I guess it depends what your plans are but my opinion would be that they're a dog that needs a job and that they take up a lot of time.

If you do decide to get one I'd advise against a rescue as your first. I'd hazard a guess that most in rescue are fine and there because of people taking on more than they can handle but having one is hard enough work let alone one that may have issued caused by their first home. If you do decide to get one I'd buy straight from a reputable breeder who has a long record of successful dogs out in the world doing stuff.

Just remembered that I knew another. It was via a rescue as it became gun shy so was to go to a pet home. It ran away a lot, was very needy and was just all around hard work despite being with it'd new owner 24/7 more or less. She was self employed working with horses and the dog went with her every day. Getting driven around all day didn't really cut it as "quality time" that the dog needed.

Don't get me wrong Snook was a cracking dog but she was a dog with a job that got "proper" work put into her daily and she was still a lot/too much in an experienced home.

When I got my dog the breeder interrogated me. I had a phone interview and then a face to face meeting before I passed and was allowed to meet the pup. Mine is a working cocker from working & FT lines. The breeder constantly drove home how much hard work the dog would be and how different this type of breeding was from pet "working" spaniels. His exact words were "if you don't know what you're getting into or what you're doing they will ruin your life". A tad dramatic I thought and I was well aware of what I was getting into. But then...there have been moments when I've been like "ah, this is what he meant". I was prepared for those moments so could roll with it but I could see how they could have been trouble for others and how it could have felt like the dog needed returned/given up/put to a rescue. That is with a relatively small breed, I'd apply that 10x over to GWP at least. In my, admittedly limited, experienced of GWP there are no days off.

Another thing to consider is if you ever plan on having a holiday without the dog. As they can be such one person dogs they don't settle well in boarding kennels/house boarding. I lived with mum at points when she had Snook and my parents are together. When mum was out the dog would never truly settle in the house with dad or I. Don't get me wrong I could exercise the dog and have her off lead etc with no issues (again, mum is a good trainer) but she was never 100% with me like she was with mum. I home boarded the rescue gun shy GWP mentioned above and it was a nightmare. He went off his food and his stomach was super upset. I couldn't leave him for a second without him howling the place down. A total ball of anxiety and neediness. It was an absolute nightmare and couldn't have been very pleasant for him.

 

[EllieBeast]

What’s this? An excuse to post more Ivy photos? Well it would be rude not to ?




So, we have a 3.5yr old German Longhaired Pointer (GLP) and another due to join the family next Saturday ?. Bred to do the same job as the GWP- they’re both HPR (hunt, point, retrieve) breeds. The ‘pointer’ or English pointer is classed in the Pointer and Setter group (this doesn’t mean that they cannot retrieve also! Just that it’s not expected of them in a trialling environment).

HPRs have been bred over centuries to hunt vast areas of ground that’s sparsely populated with game. So they generally hunt hard and fast, with a big prey drive. They are expected to point the game to indicate its presence, flush it on command and then retrieve it to hand. Basically so you could go out with your dog and your gun- and come home with dinner.

Because they’ve been bred to do multiple jobs, they’re incredibly intelligent and need plenty of mental stimulation to keep them happy and content. Just walking/running with them will make them fitter, but no more tired ?

I’ve been lucky enough to be involved with a fantastic HPR training club (if you’re near Norfolk or Suffolk let me know!) and have met a fair few GWPs as part of that. Lines are everything, compared to our GLP, the GWPs are harder headed. They have their own mind and aren’t afraid to use it! They can be fabulous dogs though and I know a few who are wonderful family pets.

On the continent- GWPs were also used to guard, so there can be a sharpness to some lines too. Getting in touch with the breed club and speaking to them about what sort of dog you want and the type of life you can offer is a good start.

My husband picks up with our GLP, she also waterfowl’s, deer stalks, stands on peg, rough shoots etc etc. HPRs are incredibly versatile dogs, but they have to be trained to adapt to different situations.
When it comes to picking up, HPRs can struggle as they are used to being ‘on the go’ all the time. Whereas a picking up dog needs to sit and do nothing bar mark the birds for the majority of a drive- unless it has runners to deal with. If a dog hasn’t learnt to sit and watch (and be bored!) quietly then they can be too loud for the picking up line. It’s all in the training (and probably the lines to an extent- ivy is quiet, as are all the sibling of hers that I’ve seen).

Ivy -being the only pointer I have experience of living with -has been the kindest, sweetest, most trainable dog I’ve ever owned. Her favourite way to spend downtime is upside down on the sofa with the cat. We absolutely adore her- hence being mad enough go for number two!

Sorry, I’ve waffles enough ? If you’ve got any questions at all I’m happy to help or ask people more in the know of GWPs on your behalf!

 

[lizziebell]

Some great advice above. GSP, (English) Pointer and GWP’s are all very very different in temperament. I would agree with ”Druid” that out of those 3, a GSP from good lines would be the better choice.

 

[minesadouble]

I love Pointers ('English'). I currently have a Hungarian Vizsla and wondered how the Pointer compares to the Vizsla in temperament?

 

[EllieBeast]

OP- If you can get there, I highly recommend going along to crufts to visit the ‘discover dogs’ area. It gives you the opportunity to meet all the breeds you’re interested in, and speak to the people who actually live with them.

 

[P3LH]

I’ve known quite a few of the German variety both wire and smooth, varied in breeding and lines. I would describe them as grumpy old men too, and very set in their ways once they’ve set into them. I’m very fond of the smooth, but wouldn’t have one.

Generally even the ones who were very sociable and ‘easy’ when a pup have, around 18 months, become quite challenging with other dogs/other animals and in some instances people. They like their person as has been said.

A relative had the most sociable young GSP who turned into an out and out liability with other dogs once mature, and they were not novice owners. I don’t think I could have coped with him and the way he was. Over time I realised it seemed that’s just them, rather than he as an individual who was a pain.

And a good friend had a lovely wire bitch who was much more frightening than their working line GSD in terms of guarding their house. She would bite first and ask questions later. And was an expert cat hunter and killer. Not nice at all.

And then there’s the hunting. Oh the hunting. As it says on the tin, hunt point and retrieve. I think very very different to many gun dogs. Too much dog for me, and I’d think many others too. I do seem to see a lot of both about these days which I often find intriguing.