Talk to me about running martingales..

Fair enough. I thought they were just for horses with awkward shapes for jumping big fences or going up and down steep hills. I was always wondering why people wear them for low level xc.

No doubt I'll have an incident and I'll be converted to them too :D
 
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Goldenstar said:
I always put a running martingale on MrGS 's horses if you think about it it the ring on the martingale acts as a break on the rein when the horses raises its head it will happen the other way it the rider raises the hand in a moment of lost balance the ring breaks the worse of that influence from the hand on the horses mouth .
It's often forgotten that they work both ways ,mouth to hand and hand to mouth .
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not so sure about this one GS - if you think of the rein going through the martingale ring as a kind of very basic pulley system then my understanding is that when this mechanism is in play ie the martingale activated by an unsteady head and / or unsteady hands, there will actually be an increase in the pressure on the bit which transfers more pressure onto the tongue of the horse because the bit is being pulled downwards by the martingale rings. Additional tongue pressure should be avoided at all costs IMHO
 
I used to use one for jumping and x-c and sometimes for hacking (one horse especially that came for reschooling had a nasty habit of throwing her head up and bogging off so it was helpful to keep the bit on the bars of the mouth) but not so short that they came into play when the horse just had its head up a bit high. If they are fitted correctly then they will still have a fair amount of play in them when the line of the reins is from the bit to the hand, sadly most people fit them so that they are at a length to have no play at that point which is where most problems start.
 
When I bought my horse he came with a breastplate martingale and a gag bit and I was told that he needed a whip and spurs to move. The gag bit and the martingale were the first things that went and have never been back on.

To begin with he did carry his head far too high and he didn't want to go forward and his standard response was to flick his head up and snatch at the reins. He is also a head shaker.
I have now had him 15 months he carries his head a lot lower (sometimes too low, especially in canter and when jumping). Along with lots and lots and lots of schooling (to his disgust as he hates flat work and would much rather be hoolying around course of jumps) and a multitude of different bits we are now in a Micklem bridle, a Neue Schule eggbutt snaffle and a nose net.

I am aware that the Micklem is seen by some as a 'faddy' bit of kit but I have tried him back in a loosely fitted cavesson with no flash and his head shaking and snatching returns which implies that he is unhappy in it. I have also tried without the nose net and the head shaking returns, albeit not as bad as it used to, so we will keep it for a little while longer.

What I am trying to say is that I think that poor schooling started the raising head and snatching as an evasion and so they put a martingale on to stop him raising his head. The bit probably came next as he started to evade more and so they went to the gag bit. I have had to put in a lot of hours schooling him to accept the bit and accept the rein contact. Going forward and into the contact is still an issue but it is getting there and there isn't a martingale in sight!
 
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Wheels said:
not so sure about this one GS - if you think of the rein going through the martingale ring as a kind of very basic pulley system then my understanding is that when this mechanism is in play ie the martingale activated by an unsteady head and / or unsteady hands, there will actually be an increase in the pressure on the bit which transfers more pressure onto the tongue of the horse because the bit is being pulled downwards by the martingale rings. Additional tongue pressure should be avoided at all costs IMHO
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I have this memory of reading that some research had been done and it was found that Running and Irish Martingales 'dampened' down the movement of a novice rider's hands. My Googling skills have failed me though and I can't find it. I have a feeling that H&H did have a short article about it on their website.
 
I did an XC lesson with a new trainer and got asked why I didn't have a martingale or breastplate on. When I replied I didn't need either - he is a very polite horse and if anything keeping his head up is more of an issue (just because he's naturally downhill, not because he tanks) and my saddle is well fitted and doesn't move - he rolled his eyes and said "well don't come crying to me when you're on the floor". Funnily enough I never did end up on the floor. At least he complimented me on how lovely my boy was at the end - although he never accepted he was wrong.
 
Been mulling over this, since being told today that our PC SJ trainer insists on the ponies wearing martingales. I was rather taken aback. I have used them, but would prefer not to.
My gut feeling is that I would rather not use a gadget unless it was necessary.. but I am not a vastly experienced person and am certainly not an SJ coach.
Am I over-worrying? I would rather my daughter learned not to depend on gadgets but I dont know if it is worth making an argument about.
 
paddi22 said:
what would be your reasoning for prefering it, just curious? I have always found standing martingales to be way more restrictive. I also wouldn't jump in one because the the horse doesn't have the range of head movement available to balance itself in an emergency
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With you I much prefer running martingales for many reasons, would not hack/compete without one.
 
I can see the sense of a well fitted running martingale and have had the benefit of them coming into action when I needed it once or twice on a knife-necked tb that liked to put his nose right up and run - otherwise I don't think they are supposed to interfere with your rein aids at all. They are useful for this type of horse I feel, otherwise I just think they have become something that everyone just "has" - part of standard equipment.

I definitely cannot understand reasoning for standing martingales - I think they are so dangerous. I've heard people say "well he rears!" .... errr that would be the worst thing to put on a rearer... I saw a youngster rear twist and fall on its rider at a meet once. Everyone was saying he shouldn't have been in a standing if he was a rearer. I don't really know in what circumstance a standing martingale would come into any use...
 
3 out of 6 don't need them. 2 that definitely do are very sharp competition ponies. Usually I take tack off not put it on but one came from a friend and I am sure she knows better than I whether or not the pony needs it, and the other one knows to run off he can stick his nose in the air. Daughter is small on them both so they both have them on all the time. I have one on my big horse but actually he would be better with a standing martingale. He rarely sticks his head up but when he does...!
 
Wheels said:
not so sure about this one GS - if you think of the rein going through the martingale ring as a kind of very basic pulley system then my understanding is that when this mechanism is in play ie the martingale activated by an unsteady head and / or unsteady hands, there will actually be an increase in the pressure on the bit which transfers more pressure onto the tongue of the horse because the bit is being pulled downwards by the martingale rings. Additional tongue pressure should be avoided at all costs IMHO
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When a rider becomes severally unbalanced the martingale is a break on the contact the martingale works both ways .
Certainly MrGS' horses prefer to have him in a martingale .
 
Goldenstar said:
When a rider becomes severally unbalanced the martingale is a break on the contact the martingale works both ways .
Certainly MrGS' horses prefer to have him in a martingale .
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I had not thought of it like that... that does help my dilemma somewhat, GS! Kids are not always balanced, though daughter is pretty good.
 
Goldenstar said:
I can't think of one reason why a dressage horse would ever need to wear a martingale .
But most horses don't just do dressage.
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I use a running martigale when I hack my dressage horse out as he is sometimes naughty on the way home, the RM stops me getting wacked in the face and helps me to get him back in his box. I also like to have a neck strap when he's schooling as a bit of a security blanket.
 
Goldenstar said:
When a rider becomes severally unbalanced the martingale is a break on the contact the martingale works both ways .
Certainly MrGS' horses prefer to have him in a martingale .
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Can you explain how it provides a break in the contact? I can see how it might redirect the contact from one part of the mouth anatomy to another but I am not sure what you mean by 'a break on the contact'
 
Wheels said:
Can you explain how it provides a break in the contact? I can see how it might redirect the contact from one part of the mouth anatomy to another but I am not sure what you mean by 'a break on the contact'
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I think it's just the feeling it gives the rider down the rein. I can feel in my hands when I have a running martingale on, even if it's theoretically not in action at the time. I really dislike riding in a running martingale.
That said I'm yet to be convinced the horse notices the difference.

ETA my reply was using a RM in general, not in response to GM quote
 
I don't own one, as my horse is a Gelderlander she has a high head carriage and there's not much a martingale would do to counteract her conformation. I've not yet come across a trainer that recommended I purchase one. A stirrup leather as a neckstrap works fine when jumping.
 
I'm surprised that standing and running martingales are being discussed in the same post. My understanding is that standing martingales are to correct a horse which stargazes or throws it's head dangerously high, and running martingale is to make correct the rider's hand position.

We found a standing one useful on a pony who liked to nap by rearing. In normal riding it was loose, but engaged just as he decided to be an arse. Didn't need it for long before he got the idea.
 
pennyturner said:
high, and running martingale is to make correct the rider's hand position.
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I don't use it for that function. I put it on any strong horses eventing if there's any risk of them head tossing or trying to get their heads before a big jump or combination. 99% of the time it doesn't come into to play, but it would be dangerous if there was any chance they needed it and it wasn't there.
 
For a horse which has a normal head position, but a rider who raises their hands, the running martingale keeps the rein acting at the correct angle on the bit. Without it, the hands coming up would cause the bit action to be ineffective and/or annoy the horse.

If the horse throws its head in the air, the answer is a standing martingale, not a running one. Why would you want to chop it in the mouth (via the rein) to correct head position?
 
I am probably too old for what appears to have been a big change in use, but when I were a lass, the running martingale was originally designed to (when fitted correctly) keep the bit on the bars of the mouth if a horse put its head too high. It was not designed to stop a horse therowing its head in the air or to correct bad riding
 
I dislike them. Both of my horses came wearing them, I’ve taken them off and only wished I had them on twice since then. Once with one horse getting strong cantering towards home (jockey error to ask her to do it anyway so not the horses fault) and once with the other when I took her to the beach for the first time and she got super overexcited. Personally I do feel that 95% of the time they interfere with the hand-mouth contact, even if it’s just a mild jiggling against the rein. I can’t see how they would correct a rider’s bad hand position, there isn’t enough weight in the rings to bring the rein down if hands are too high, surely?
 
I used a running martingale for hunting but not the rest of the time, I think they are very overused! Just like flash nosebands. For hunting it was very necessary - for anything else it was completely unnecessary.
I did use a standing martingale on my pony when I first got her as she had very high head carriage and was a bit of a rocket, charging off with her head in the air and evading everything. We needed it for about 6 months until the reschooling worked and I had got control back and she developed a better way of going.
I have no problem with properly fitting tack used appropriately - after all I hack my pony in a pelham with double reins and no noseband as that is what she goes best in and I am actually not a fan of snaffles. But I do hate tack fads.
 
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