Talk To Me About Treeless Saddles (Especially Barefoot Ones)

acorn92x

Well-Known Member
Joined
28 July 2014
Messages
508
Location
Surrey
Visit site
As I am at my wits end with my horses ever changing shape and the fact that her treed saddle just can't keep up with this and it's starting to cost me a small fortune. I have only owned my girl since August last year and she has seen the saddle fitter no less than 8 times in this period and has been through 2 saddles. Frankly, I've had enough of this and would like something that's a bit more flexible to allow her to change shape and yet not cost me £100 every 6 weeks! I've looked at several treeless options and lots of people speak highly of Barefoot treeless saddles. I've had a look at these and particularly like the look of the London model. Does anyone use this? My horse is an Irish cob, wide but has a small wither. I'm happy to consider all brands and have a budget of around £700 (Would stretch for the right saddle but not by too much!). I've looked on eBay at Heather Moffett saddles but have tried her Fhoenix model before and it was the most awful saddle I've ever ridden in (Although my horse didn't seem to mind it).

Thanks in advance :)
 

TheSaddleLady

Well-Known Member
Joined
11 February 2014
Messages
62
Location
Spain & Surrey
Visit site
Hi, I have ridden in a Barefoot saddle (don't know which model) and hated it! Felt too 'floppy' in the saddle. But that is probably my riding more than anything.

I am a fitter for Heather Moffett saddles but do not deal with the Fhoenix (only the newer Vogue and FlexEE).
I have a FlexEE dressage myself as it was the only saddle that suited my PRE. He will be changing shape a lot over the next few month and this saddle actually has a soft tree, made of layers of leather. It feels (and looks) more like a regular treed saddle but does allow the freedom of movement and growth like a treeless does. Also it's £650 new but you can pick them up for cheaper 2nd hand. The FlexEE also has changeable gullet plates and can be easily re-flocked.
Obviously being a fitter for them I am slightly biased but it was truly the only saddle mine went well in and I have seen amazing results from them. I wouldn't endorse a saddle I didn't genuinely believe in. (Fairfax I'm coming for you soon!!)
Gosh look at me! I look like a real sale person, sorry!

PM if you want more info, I have photos of the leather trees in the FlexEE etc. I am on the SW London/Surrey border too, just saying ;)
 

acorn92x

Well-Known Member
Joined
28 July 2014
Messages
508
Location
Surrey
Visit site
Thank you :)

I know the floppy feeling - that was EXACTLY how I felt in the Fhoenix! I had absolutely no lower leg stability at all and my position and lower leg is generally very good!

I've looked at the FlexEE and really like the fact that it looks like a traditional saddle as some treeless ones look hideous imo. Are the gullets the shape of the Wintec ones? Is it true that the FlexEE can be used without the gullets too? I've got a HM seat saver and it's the most comfortable thing ever but the Fhoenix put me off of the saddles themselves a bit which is a bit daft really! I have tried SO many treed saddles and my horse seems to be between sizes so they either end up too wide or pinching her withers slightly (Physio has said her withers were a bit sore when she came last week and advised checking the saddle AGAIN) or are too uncomfortable for me (I've previously broken my pelvis and the twist in some saddles makes it uncomfortable for me if riding for too long - majorly important as I do endurance and dressage). I'm also based around there - you must be very close to me!
 

stencilface

High upon a hillside
Joined
28 February 2008
Messages
21,079
Location
Leeds
Visit site
Do the flexEE have a tree in them? I'm looking for a new saddle potentially as I think we might have found the issue with my horses lameness (likely si issue) and the barefoot London daddke I have is apparently not helped it at all, could have potentially caused the issue. Boo.
 

madlady

Well-Known Member
Joined
3 October 2006
Messages
1,654
Visit site
I have barefoot treeless saddles - I have a Cheyenne, London and Barrydale. The Cheyenne is very 'western' for want of a better word - but extremely comfortable, I did find though that it was starting to take a toll on my knees as there are no knee rolls so I got the London and loved it - rides more like a treed saddle but with the benefit of still being able to 'feel' everything - lovely deep seat and adjustable knee rolls.

Hubby bought me the barrydale as a present and again I love it - very comfortable, lovely deep seat. All of my 3 are ridden in the barefoot saddles.
 

LHIS

Well-Known Member
Joined
8 April 2015
Messages
1,784
Location
East Lancashire
Visit site
As usual I'll wave the flag for Solution saddles. They are out of your budget new, but the second hand market for them is pretty good. If you are on Facebook search for 'unofficial solution saddles' page and join, people sell on there and you can pick up a second hand saddle within your budget.
 

cundlegreen

Well-Known Member
Joined
5 February 2009
Messages
2,224
Location
Suffolk
Visit site
If you can find a second hand Mondial Freedom Holistic secondhand (they don't make them any more) I would recommend. Look just like a GP, with detachable knee rolls, very nice buffalo hide leather, and i am eventing my horses in it. Lovely comfortable saddle.
 

acorn92x

Well-Known Member
Joined
28 July 2014
Messages
508
Location
Surrey
Visit site
I have barefoot treeless saddles - I have a Cheyenne, London and Barrydale. The Cheyenne is very 'western' for want of a better word - but extremely comfortable, I did find though that it was starting to take a toll on my knees as there are no knee rolls so I got the London and loved it - rides more like a treed saddle but with the benefit of still being able to 'feel' everything - lovely deep seat and adjustable knee rolls.

Hubby bought me the barrydale as a present and again I love it - very comfortable, lovely deep seat. All of my 3 are ridden in the barefoot saddles.

What type do you have the London on? Thanks for your perspectives too - the Cheyenne looks too western for my liking considering we do so much dressage, I prefer the more traditional look :)

LHIS, thanks, I'll have a look at this! Have ridden a friends horse in a Solution and loved it although he is quite a different shape to my girl. I nearly fainted when she told me how much she paid for it lol!
 

Sukistokes2

Well-Known Member
Joined
11 April 2011
Messages
4,244
Location
I live in Kent
Visit site
I am another one with a Heather Moffatt but unlike the fitter above i have the older model, the Fhoenix, I like this version of the saddle because I like the position of the girth straps, mine has a point strap position and this suits my horse. I bought because he changed shape with the wind. I find it comfortable, supportive and easy to care for. They really give a good ride, although they do need to be balanced, its straightforward to learn. The fitters I have spoken to only bother with the newer saddles and quite often have no idea about the older models. I found the system under which they are sold and how the fitters have to buy saddles to show you, to be a bit chaotic. The fitting course is a two day course so I also question some of the knowledge parted to me by the fitter i hired. I have learnt to balance my own and have found that my horse is so happy and comfortable in it, this is backed up by the Chrio who says he is the best he has ever been.
I bought mine on ebay.
 

QuantockHills

Well-Known Member
Joined
18 April 2016
Messages
378
Location
West Somerset
Visit site
Mine's in a Solution Treeless and we both love it! It looks like a traditional GP saddle and has velcro repositionable knee rolls. It never moves on him and i've jumped / hunted / hacked in it for hours and find it very comfortable. I've previously had an Ideal 'Highland Cob' fit, bought new and made to measure but it constantly moved forwards and other second hand ones prior to that always moved on him....
 

stencilface

High upon a hillside
Joined
28 February 2008
Messages
21,079
Location
Leeds
Visit site
Are the solution saddles much more like a treed saddle? Ie would it be better than my London and not ruin my horse further? Thanks LHIS for the fb group, very helpful.
 

TheSaddleLady

Well-Known Member
Joined
11 February 2014
Messages
62
Location
Spain & Surrey
Visit site
Thank you :)

I know the floppy feeling - that was EXACTLY how I felt in the Fhoenix! I had absolutely no lower leg stability at all and my position and lower leg is generally very good!

I've looked at the FlexEE and really like the fact that it looks like a traditional saddle as some treeless ones look hideous imo. Are the gullets the shape of the Wintec ones? Is it true that the FlexEE can be used without the gullets too?
(I've previously broken my pelvis and the twist in some saddles makes it uncomfortable for me if riding for too long - majorly important as I do endurance and dressage). I'm also based around there - you must be very close to me!


HM saddles have the stirrup bars further back than normal saddles to put you in a more classical seat, doesn't suit everyone at first but you soon get used to it and learn to love it!

The gullet plates are very similar to that of the Wintecs (I don't like putting Wintec plates in FlexEEs though because it has a particular ridge). And yes the FlexEE can be used with no gullet (although if you felt you needed stability through the pommel you can put one of the extra wide Wintec plates in.
I also have hip and back problems due to a past accident (broken back, not pelvis though!) and the newer HM saddles are made with the female body in mind. I no longer get cramp in my hip joint. I used to do Endurance and am now re-schooling myself in Dressage, eak!

I also love Solution saddles but they are very pricey, even with the payment plans. But if you can stretch at all look at those too.

Edit: Here is a link to an image of the Leather tree in the FlexEE
http://bettersaddles.co.uk/shop/image/cache/catalog/FlexEE/flexee_tree-600x600.png
 

GoldenWillow

Well-Known Member
Joined
15 June 2015
Messages
2,803
Visit site
Over the years I've tried a few treeless saddles, all on cob types. I tried a Barefoot cheyenne, felt the twist was uncomfortably wide and it was the only saddle that made my mare buck in 14 yrs so it obviously didn't suit her. Rode her in HM Phoenix it had it's good and bad points but mare was happy in it.

Used an older style Solution on cob gelding who had had a lot of issues, it did its job but it wasn't quite right for me it was a little too large.

With J we were happy in a treed saddle until he changed shape and grew huge shoulders and wither! I ended up riding in a Christ Lamfelle pad whilst the saddle search was on, both treed or treeless just something that fitted. I trialled a HM flexee but it didn't work for him at all, the fit was just wrong on him. I then trialled a Solution, he hated the eventer which I really liked but was very happy in the smart native. I had it on 2 weeks trial which was very important to get the fit 100% and make sure we were both happy then I purchased it. I've now had it approx 6 weeks and all is well , he's just had his back checked and got the all clear and was complemented on how well muscled and supple it is. That obviously isn't all down to 6-7 weeks in the solution but it's reassuring that it's working well for him.

Whichever treeless you are interested in I think it's very important to have a trial if at all possible as I don't think they are a one size fits all. Or if buying secondhand buy at a price you can resell if needed. HTH
 

MDB

Well-Known Member
Joined
29 June 2014
Messages
955
Location
Spain.
Visit site
Love my Trekker treeless saddle. It is so comfy, extremely easy to adjust, it is deep and feels super secure. Ideal for my spooky mare. The first time I tried it my horse felt so different under me. Her movement so was much smoother. Would definitely recommend you consider a Trekker.
 

YorksG

Over the hill and far awa
Joined
14 September 2006
Messages
16,142
Location
West Yorkshire
Visit site
Another vote for Solution Saddles from here :) We now have three of them, originally bought them as we have two youngsters to back and know from bitter experience that saddles bought for youngsters don't fit for any length of time! The two older horses go brilliantly in them, the Older Draught mare had been in four saddles in five years, never has she been as free through the shoulder and as willing to work. The Older Appy, who had some asymetric way of going, is much straighter and much more relaxed in her work. Both sister and I find them very comfortable and my lower leg position is much better than in the Jeffries which fitted the horse but was too short for me :)
 

Izzwall

Well-Known Member
Joined
25 August 2011
Messages
270
Location
Dartmoor
Visit site
I had the same problem with my girlie, we went through 4 saddles in a year and it was getting ridiculous! She's very wide with no wither at all, I have the barefoot nottinghill saddle and I love it! I got mine second hand on preloved for £450 including the physio pad, my mare goes really nice in it too. I've jumped up to 3ft in it with no problems and have gone for a few fast hacks too. It's very stable and I can get on from the ground if I need to get off on a hack. It does take a bit of getting used to though!
 

Bay_pony

Member
Joined
6 February 2016
Messages
12
Visit site
I recently bought a barefoot saddle through Mariaana at Better Saddles. She was very helpful and I am extremely happy with my purchase. I got a Cheyenne which was the right saddle for me and my pony but of course it depends on what you intend to do and your personal preferences. You really need to try a couple if possible as they vary hugely. Barefoot have a good range and they seem well made without costing the earth. My pony goes much better in his treeless saddle and I'm very pleased to have made the transition to treeless.
 

LHIS

Well-Known Member
Joined
8 April 2015
Messages
1,784
Location
East Lancashire
Visit site
Are the solution saddles much more like a treed saddle? Ie would it be better than my London and not ruin my horse further? Thanks LHIS for the fb group, very helpful.

You can definitely 'feel' more with them, but in terms of security and how comfortable they are I find them really comfy. I tried HM Vogue but didn't like it - the seat was too high at the front and it was rather uncomfortable if you get my drift!

Trekker are also a good brand - I had one of these before moving to Solution. They are hard to come by though, and the design is a bit of a love/hate type of thing, they can look a bit like a saddle you might see on a seaside donkey IMO.
 

MiJodsR2BlinkinTite

Well-Known Member
Joined
16 February 2009
Messages
11,027
Location
Slopping along on a loose rein somewhere in Devon
Visit site
I think I must have tried pretty much everything in the Barefoot range TBH!!

I tried the Cherokee on my traddie cob (a bit like what you've got OP?? - i.e. short backed, low withered, and wide ???). I'm a classic size 16, 5ft3". Found the size 2 ridiculously big for both of us, way too big for the horse's back and I slopped around in it like a turd on top of a dungheap. So that wasn't any good! Also tried the Cheyenne in size 2, same problem, too big, plus this one doesn't have knee rolls and I have never felt so unstable on a horse ever. Hated it. Also tried the London size 2 - it was too big and I rejected it as unsuitable.

Tried the London and the Cherokee both in the size 1, this was too small! - a pity as if there had been an extra half-inch either way it would have been fine and I'd have kept it. The problem that I had was that both saddles were fine in walk, and very comfy with it, but in rising trot my pubic bone kept bumping up against the pommel insert. However both of these saddles fitted my horse OK so it really was a shame that they were that bit too small for me!

Tried their Lexington size 2. Not at all suitable for cobby types, would've been much better on a WB/TB type. Didn't fit me or the horse, and it had very long flaps on it which if you've got short legs like I have, meant that the stirrups were actually being placed on the flaps almost! It also has a ridiculously high cantle on it, has to be seen to be believed TBH.

So after going through the Barefoot range, I came upon a fairly local firm of saddle makers called "Tree Free saddles" based in Buckfastleigh, Devon. You can trial their saddles for a week for fifty quid, well worth doing! Then, whilst I had the saddle on trial, one of their "Exmoor" saddles (the one I'd got on trial!!) came up on e-bay, which I then bought. It is a lovely little saddle, but the one I have is one of their original versions where they didn't give you an option for where the stirrup bar goes - you can have it in the "forward" position now if you want.

Anyway, Tree Free brought out a new prototype called the "Tor" saddle (comes in GP or dressage versions), and I've got that now. It is truly lovely: a really comfy saddle which you can ride for 2+ hours in and still feel you could do it all again; and I find it's fantastic on my traddie (very wide) cob because it has a really nice narrow twist on it and doesn't wreck your hips like a lot of treeless saddles do! I really can't recommend it highly enough, and you can trial as well which is essential with ANY treeless saddle IMO. I found the Barefoot's really uncomfortably wide, and when you've got a wide cob, its not what you want!!

Tried the HM FlexEE - original one without the fixed gullet which was a PITA to fit so it went on E-bay in the end!; also tried her Vogue and Phoenix - Phoenix slightly more do-able than the Vogue but felt I was being pushed into an unnatural position (but to be fair, this was my first experience of treeless) - I could hardly walk for nearly a week............

PS (edited) A friend who used to work with a saddle fitter said to me once that in some trials/pressure tests done a few years ago now - the "best" treeless saddle which came out tops for horse comfort was the Trekker. But apparently this was least popular with riders simply because of the "hoop" at the front which visually put a lot of people off! This hoop is actually where you can alter it, and it is very easy to do without the fiddling around of changing gullet/pommel plates which you get with other treeless saddles. I have never tried a Trekker but only repeating what she said basically.
 
Last edited:

madlady

Well-Known Member
Joined
3 October 2006
Messages
1,654
Visit site
What type do you have the London on? Thanks for your perspectives too - the Cheyenne looks too western for my liking considering we do so much dressage, I prefer the more traditional look :)

LHIS, thanks, I'll have a look at this! Have ridden a friends horse in a Solution and loved it although he is quite a different shape to my girl. I nearly fainted when she told me how much she paid for it lol!

I have friesians - I've ridden all 3 of them in all 3 saddles. All 3 of them are quite flat backed with low wither and massive shoulders - it was the shoulder that caused me issues trying to get a treed saddle to fit.
 

FfionWinnie

Well-Known Member
Joined
20 July 2012
Messages
17,021
Location
Scotland
Visit site
I have a solution saddle and there is quite a comprehensive thread on here that I started. The second hand value of them is surprisingly low, so it's well worth having a trial and joining that group LHIS mentioned because there's a good chance of getting one second hand in your budget. I didn't have time to wait so bought mine new and I have not regretted it for a second. She's also a cob and you can see it in action on my FB page www.facebook.com/TeamSuperCob.
 

Buddy'sMum

Well-Known Member
Joined
30 July 2013
Messages
1,755
Location
West Yorks
Visit site
I bought a secondhand Cherokee 5 years ago when I brought one of mine back into work after a long lay off, was intended to be a temporary measure until I got her something like fit but I loved it so much I'm still using it. Did have problems with it slipping backwards but a Barefoot physio sorted that.
 

stencilface

High upon a hillside
Joined
28 February 2008
Messages
21,079
Location
Leeds
Visit site
Saddle fitter I saw today said that given the current state of my horses back muscle, or lack thereof that a treeless saddle won't suit him. I can't deny it might be true as I only started having issues which may all stem from the same issue since I got the barefoot saddle.

He measures as an extra wide apparently, although he'll need padding up for a while. My old albion jumping saddle which I love is a mw, eep! I did have that fitted several times by different people, but seemingly it wasn't right. Sigh
 

BlackRider

Well-Known Member
Joined
26 September 2011
Messages
3,872
Visit site
Well i have a barefoot London, which my horse loves, and tbh I could get used to it if I really had to, I refuse to sell it as I keep it as my back up saddle.

I originally bought it then I could use it on both my horses, then I lost my elderly horse. So went back to my Albion dressage saddle, that caused back issues (even though it was made to measure), got a solution saddle which my horse hated, and caused issues with his back (yes it was professionally fitted). Have the latest HM flexee finesse VSD which I love, and more importantly so does my horse, it feels like a treed saddle and is so comfortable.

But the barefoot was brilliant when the solution and albion caused issues, I did get used to it, and sat many a dramatic spook in it, but I do prefer the flexee.
 

Iwantakitten

Well-Known Member
Joined
1 December 2012
Messages
531
Visit site
Haven't tried any other treeless or flex tree saddles but my horse hated the HM Flexee, he has fine with it the first time on, stuffy the second and refused to move the third. I sold it for more than I paid for it so there was something.
 

Willow1306

Well-Known Member
Joined
20 December 2007
Messages
663
Visit site
Saddle fitter I saw today said that given the current state of my horses back muscle, or lack thereof that a treeless saddle won't suit him. I can't deny it might be true as I only started having issues which may all stem from the same issue since I got the barefoot saddle.

He measures as an extra wide apparently, although he'll need padding up for a while. My old albion jumping saddle which I love is a mw, eep! I did have that fitted several times by different people, but seemingly it wasn't right. Sigh


On the contrary, a good treeless saddle would enable the back muscle to develop, whilst continuing to fit him as the topline improves.
 

Rowreach

👀
Joined
13 May 2007
Messages
17,004
Location
Northern Ireland
Visit site
Are the solution saddles much more like a treed saddle? Ie would it be better than my London and not ruin my horse further? Thanks LHIS for the fb group, very helpful.

A lot of current and former Solution agents are in the fb group so there is a lot of help and support there as well as saddles for sale.
 

Rowreach

👀
Joined
13 May 2007
Messages
17,004
Location
Northern Ireland
Visit site
Saddle fitter I saw today said that given the current state of my horses back muscle, or lack thereof that a treeless saddle won't suit him. I can't deny it might be true as I only started having issues which may all stem from the same issue since I got the barefoot saddle.

He measures as an extra wide apparently, although he'll need padding up for a while. My old albion jumping saddle which I love is a mw, eep! I did have that fitted several times by different people, but seemingly it wasn't right. Sigh

To be honest, treeless saddles (though I suppose I can only speak for Solution) are ideal for a horse with a lack of back muscle because they allow the musculature to develop.
 

FfionWinnie

Well-Known Member
Joined
20 July 2012
Messages
17,021
Location
Scotland
Visit site
I'm going to take some pics tomorrow as I can see the muscle developing over my horses back which was hollow behind the withers due to a "well fitting" specialist treed saddle. Since she has been ridden in a bareback pad and now her solution saddle, those hollows have filled in. I'm just hoping the before pics I have are good enough to show the difference now.
 

Wagtail

Horse servant
Joined
2 December 2010
Messages
14,816
Location
Lincs
Visit site
I did a lot of research into treeless saddles before getting my Ghost saddle. One of the main things to avoid is stirrup bar pressure which many of the main brands can cause. The Ghost treeless saddles do not have this issue. In addition, you can buy interchangeable seats for the ghost saddle, choosing from a dressage type, western or GP and they are all interchangeable. The leather is very high quality too. There are two stirrup bar positions so you can choose a more classical position if you prefer it. I have backed my youngster in one and she never even noticed it was on her back. It is so comfortable and feels really secure to ride in. It also doesn't move on her back, even when lunging.
 
Top