Talk to me about treeless...

[Fjord]

After moving yards I now keep my tack at home, and lugging it down the stairs and out to the car has really made me realise how heavy it is! Coupled with reading the 'heavier rider' thread I'm really beginning to wonder about the weight I put on my mare's back. I know I could do with losing a bit, but realistically it's not going to be more than about 9lbs. I've often thought about treeless saddles but I know nothing about them, can anyone recommend brands I could look at to replace a 17" Kent and Masters cob? I have long legs, so the K&M fits my pony but isn't perfect for me, it would be interesting if there was something else out there I could try. Do you use different girth with them? I've finally found one that doesn't rub (Prolite) so would prefer to keep using it.

 

[webble]

The majority use a dressage girth as this offers more stability.

I've tried a barefoot London and a tree free exmoor. Both well made but I couldn't get on with the style or the cantle.

I had a solution at one point but found it put me in a chair position. The quality of the leather wasnt great either for the price

For the last 7 or 8 years I've used various Heather Moffett saddles, they are classed as soft tree rather than tree less and seem to be marmite. I love them, the fleexee is the closest to a normal saddle. Do be aware though this brand are measured pommel to cantle rather than diagonally.

I have heard a lot of good things about ghost saddles.

I am thinking of trialling an edix Tudor gp later this year, again this is a soft tree and looks fairly traditional

 

[Pearlsasinger]

Sister and I both like our Solutions, (on very different horses). When I tried mine on the Draft mare who had huge shoulders, she obviously liked it better than any of the 5 saddles we had used in the last 4 years. My cob has never worn anything else.
Solutions are measured to fit the rider, so will probably suit your long legs better than what you are using now.

 

[PapaverFollis]

I have Heather Moffett Vogues and am overall a lover of them. They are marmite though and I haven't managed to get it sitting right on MrT yet. Has been no bother on any other horse and I can't figure out why he's different! ? Awkward is what he is. She does say that they are not for people over 14 stone, just for information because you mentioned the weight thread- no idea how heavy you are! I'm considering trying a Flexee for MrT but it's an investment when his treed saddle actually works really nicely.

I would also look at Solutions just because they seem to get much more universally positive reviews. Same for Ghosts.

For ultra lightweight and portable there's always the "Total Contact Saddles"... but hmmm. I can't get my head round the idea that they'd be OK. ?? They keep coming up on my Facebook feed though and there's lots of happy people with them.

 

[MotherOfChickens]

Bear in mind that most treeless saddles have a weight limit (usually about 12 stone). I have a Ghost (4.5kg) and a Treefree Exmoor which weighs a little more. Dressage girth required and some require either caged or breakaway stirrups (my ghost does, the tree free does not).

Some have spine clearance built in (Ghost and Treefree) and some don't (Barefoot-although that has some internal built in). In my experience, those with spine clearance built in are most stable on barrel shaped ponies. I have tried various Barefoots, Torsions, Ghosts, Treefrees.

Often the sizing states it will be a 17inch, the reality is that they come up quite big and therefore long on the horse. Trial one first-Tree free and Ghosts can be trialled, I expect someone will be trialling solutions.

I like both of mine, I've not yet given the Treefree a good workout and its closer contact than the Ghost. A lot of the treeless, including Ghosts and Barefoots require some riding in before you lose the slightly perched feeling-the Treefree are closer contact and I really like their pads.

 

[alibali]

I have a Ghost. I like it a lot. Both horses I've used it on go well in it (15hh Welsh and 16.2 very athletic warmblood). I consider my life choices when the warmblood gets excited though as it doesn't give the same support a treed saddle does! Having said that I've always felt secure in it - just it didn't feel terribly secure on the horse! The addition of a breastplate helped stabilise it and the horse is EXTREMELY athletic so under normal conditions it wouldn't be a problem.

I've ridden up to 2 1/2 hours in it with no back issues however I do still have some concerns around weight distribution/stirrup pressure points. I will continue to monitor closely but no issues so far. I intend to start my new horse in it and hopefully it will see us through the shape changes as she muscles up, I'm not discounting getting a treed saddle fitted in due course but will see how it goes.

 

[Fjord]

Thanks for your replies. Re the weight, I'm about 11 stone but really want to get on the other side of 10 1/2. Just need to stop eating (and drinking) chocolate...

I worry about the pressure points, especially from the stirrups. I don't ride loads, on average over summer it will probably be about 4 times a week of hacking. The current saddle fits fine so I'm not sure if I would be making a mistake in trying something new. I'd like a trial, but its not going to be for long enough to see if pressure points build up is it?

 

[MotherOfChickens]

tbh with that sort of level of work (similar to me) I'd not worry. Unless you spend your hacks in 2-point. But if you're not having issues right now, why change?

 

[AntiPuck]

It might be worth looking at the Total Contact Saddle, it's super light as there's barely anything to it, and many people swear by it. I have one but am yet to try it out so can't give you a personal opinion, but they have a Facebook group if you search, and lots of discussion about pressure test results, physio reports from horses that have worn them for years, etc. to reassure.

 

[sbloom]

It might be worth looking at the Total Contact Saddle, it's super light as there's barely anything to it, and many people swear by it. I have one but am yet to try it out so can't give you a personal opinion, but they have a Facebook group if you search, and lots of discussion about pressure test results, physio reports from horses that have worn them for years, etc. to reassure.

Equally enough tales of whole yards where the TCS is favoured where every horse has topline syndrome or similar. A bodyworker friend of mine loathes them, but as a fitter you can imagine I seldom see horses up close that have them.

 

[PapaverFollis]

I've used treeless/flexible tree for years. My horses get regular physio. I've never had an issue with stirrup bar pressure showing sore spots on any horse, even with daily riding at the heavier end of what saddle and horse can manage. I'm sure it can be an issue but it just hasn't come up in my experience.

 

[saddlesore]

I have a solutions saddle and I love it. My boy is so much more active in it

 

[AntiPuck]

Equally enough tales of whole yards where the TCS is favoured where every horse has topline syndrome or similar. A bodyworker friend of mine loathes them, but as a fitter you can imagine I seldom see horses up close that have them.

I have seen a couple, though not many, saddle fitters saying things like this online, but obviously the conflict of interest makes it hard to know how much credibility there is behind it when there are so many first-hand stories saying the opposite.

 

[Jenko109]

I have used them on a variety of horses from 13.2-15.2 for the past decade or so. I love them. The horses go well in them.

 

[Tarragon]

I have a lovely Barefoot Cherokee that I bring out for backing young horses, or to be used as a stop gap while waiting for saddle/fitter. It is especially nice for young riders as it is soft and has a useful pommel to hold onto.
I did have a scare once which has made me think. I rode my pony, who had been clipped the day before, on a hunt ride for several hours and spent most of the time at trot or canter, and in a few days white pressure marks appeared in the form of vertical white strips at the top of his back where the stirrup leathers hang. I was mortified! This was using the appropriate grandeur pad underneath the saddle. It just showed that there must have been pressure from my weight in the stirrups which would not have been the case in a treed saddle, but probably caused because I was riding for several hours at a fast pace and on a newly clipped pony. I had done many miles in that saddle previously (including the Mary Towneley Loop) with no problems, but mostly at a walk. These pressure marks did disappear totally with the next coat change.
As a result, I now use treed saddles for most riding, but still rate the barefoot treeless saddle but used with care. Plus, I am sure that treeless saddles have improved technically since I bought this one nearly 15 years ago.

 

[Highmileagecob]

I have ridden in a Barefoot Cheyanne for around ten years. Hefty piebald cob, leg at each corner, will hack for miles. If you are going down the treeless route, yes - the weight of the rider does make a difference, and you need to get the saddle pads right for each individual horse. My lad has a bit of a wither, so I have always used high wither profile sheepskins and prolite pads. You don't always have to use the pad that is recommended by the saddle manufacturer, just use your common sense and make sure you have wither clearance, and no pressure over the spine, check for pressure points and pay attention to your horse's action and gait. The first few months I rode out treeless, it felt like we had found an extra gear. His stride extended, hind legs came under and he enjoyed the hacks! I found it the most comfortable saddle to ride on too.

 

[w1bbler]

Friend of mine has been using a TCS saddle for several years. The horse seems to go well in it & her bodywork is happy with the horse. It does however put her in a chair seat, although she claims its making her sit properly & use her core.

 

[maya2008]

I have had success with Torsion and Freeform (the genuine Freeform not knock-offs). Torsion is super comfy for hacks, good for dressage but difficult to jump in much. Freeform is better if your horse has a slightly longer, flatter back and easier to jump in. I prefer it as it has more of a twist, but my ponies prefer the Torsion so that is what we have at the moment. Use a Professional’s Choice girth which never budges and doesn’t rub.

I have had no issues with pressure points etc with the makes mentioned above, but have had in the past with other treeless saddle brands we have tried.

 

[MotherOfChickens]

I have a lovely Barefoot Cherokee that I bring out for backing young horses, or to be used as a stop gap while waiting for saddle/fitter. It is especially nice for young riders as it is soft and has a useful pommel to hold onto.
I did have a scare once which has made me think. I rode my pony, who had been clipped the day before, on a hunt ride for several hours and spent most of the time at trot or canter, and in a few days white pressure marks appeared in the form of vertical white strips at the top of his back where the stirrup leathers hang. I was mortified! This was using the appropriate grandeur pad underneath the saddle. It just showed that there must have been pressure from my weight in the stirrups which would not have been the case in a treed saddle, but probably caused because I was riding for several hours at a fast pace and on a newly clipped pony. I had done many miles in that saddle previously (including the Mary Towneley Loop) with no problems, but mostly at a walk. These pressure marks did disappear totally with the next coat change.
As a result, I now use treed saddles for most riding, but still rate the barefoot treeless saddle but used with care. Plus, I am sure that treeless saddles have improved technically since I bought this one nearly 15 years ago.

I think Tarragon that since then that they have added the VPS system which is supposed to prevent this. I’ve liked both the Cheyenne and Atlanta I had but didn’t find either very stable and try as I might, I can’t get to like fenders (Atlanta) and so I went with a Ghost.

 

[Nudibranch]

I've used a few over the years, mostly Libra and Torsion in the past. Not suited to either very high withers or table tops!

For the last 6-7 years I've used HM Flexee. I stick to synthetic to reduce weight and the only horse who was never happy turned out to have multi issues and was pts at 7.

I find them very comfortable and they are flexible treed rather than fully treeless. I've had knee and hip pain with a few other saddles. My lot have maintained good, even muscle underneath and they've worked well with a CB, WB, TB and Dales - quite a range of shapes!

 

[Palindrome]

I had a Trekker and after a few months my mare grew white hair where the stirrup bars sit. I was 11st and only riding/hacking at the weekend (max 2 hours hacking so light work). I have gone back to treed now.

 

[SEL]

I borrowed a friend's TCS and it gave me shocking backache no matter what padding I had under it.

I'd recommend trialling a Solutions if you go down that route. I liked the one I had on trial but no matter how the company tried to set it up we couldn't stop it shifting forwards on a pony with no withers - gave her a sore back and was returned.

 

[soloequestrian]

Heather Moffett Flexee again. Leather tree so very like a normal saddle, light, comfy, put you in good position, seem to fit a lot of horses, cheap!

 

[planete]

The best thing you can do is to have a trial before buying. Different treeless saddles suit different horses and riders. I had an old Barefoot on my arab x and it was great for both of us. I bought one for my cobby pony and it was awful. I had lessons on a Flexee and loved it, could not stand it on the pony nor could he. Trialled a Ghost and felt so perched I sent it back. My old horse loved his Startrekk but I did not. You really need to have it professionally fitted too ideally unless you are very experienced.

 

[Cortez]

I have ridden in a few different models on other people's horses. Hated them all, but I know people who love them.

 

[Highmileagecob]

The best thing you can do is to have a trial before buying. Different treeless saddles suit different horses and riders. I had an old Barefoot on my arab x and it was great for both of us. I bought one for my cobby pony and it was awful. I had lessons on a Flexee and loved it, could not stand it on the pony nor could he. Trialled a Ghost and felt so perched I sent it back. My old horse loved his Startrekk but I did not. You really need to have it professionally fitted too ideally unless you are very experienced.

The old Barefoots made by the original company are very flexible and soft. The newer models are more rigid, do not give as much as the old ones and can cause rubs and pressure unless properly padded out. No idea whether the company sold out or not?

 

[Pinkvboots]

I have ridden in a few different models on other people's horses. Hated them all, but I know people who love them.

I don't like them either

 

[Rowreach]

I don't like them either

I do (riding in Solution saddles since 2006). I've found them to be a total blessing in terms of being able to fit them to any horse that came through the yard, and tbh I wouldn't still be able to ride if I had to sit on a treed saddle because they give my broken bits huge grief due to the lack of movement. I can ride happily in my Solution and my back isn't sore at all.

Also in all those years I've never had a horse with any saddle related issues (other than normal bodywork maintenance that any ridden horse might need).

However, and it's a big however, much like using any saddle, it's up to the rider to be observant of any changes in the horse, and be able to make any fitting tweaks necessary for horse and rider.

Upthread there was mention of someone being put in a chair seat by their saddle. Certainly with Solution saddles that should never happen if the saddle is fitted to the horse and balanced to the rider properly. I don't know enough about other treeless makes to comment but if they can't be balanced effectively then they have no business being anywhere near a horse.

 

[MotherOfChickens]

That was a tcs Rowreach, it’s scarcely a saddle at all.

 

[Caol Ila]

I tried my old horse in a Barefoot London and we both hated it. It tried to kill my hips and she didn’t think she could trot in it. Ended up riding her in a leather tree saddle.

Aforesaid leather tree saddle did not work at all for Highland. I gave it a month of adjustment faff, but that flat backed Highland shape was just wrong for horse and saddle. I then trialled a Ghost and Treefree. Ghost felt weirdly perched and made my position worse than it already is. TreeFree felt very close contact and made my leg look a lot better. Horse also felt freer through his back with the latter. So I bought one. Very happy so far.