Talking about breaking in!

May I ask a question please JG? When lunging, do you use purely the lunge line and a cavesson? I noticed the horses seemed to be wearing a cavesson over the bridle.... but I'm guessing you don't use side reins or other items for lunging??
 
Crazydancer said:
May I ask a question please JG? When lunging, do you use purely the lunge line and a cavesson? I noticed the horses seemed to be wearing a cavesson over the bridle.... but I'm guessing you don't use side reins or other items for lunging??
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Just had a head-slapping 'duuuurrrr' moment. Of course, you have a rider on board when lunging. Sorry for my densness....
Do you do much lunge work without a rider?
 
Crazydancer said:
Just had a head-slapping 'duuuurrrr' moment. Of course, you have a rider on board when lunging. Sorry for my densness....
Do you do much lunge work without a rider?
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We do a LOT of lunge work without the rider - because the horse has to be word perfect on voice commands.

AVERAGE schedule (and every horse is of course different - so you progress at THEIR speed)

1. Teach to lunge - cavesson only.
2. Over the next few days introduce a roller, then a bridle (still lunging off the cavesson)
3. MIGHT use loose side reins on the odd horse - just to start giving them an idea of a little weight in the reins - but that depends on the horse and its way of going.
4. By the end of week 2, horse word perfect on voice commands (especially WHOA:D) and happy about rider climbing onto mounting block and leaning over.
5. End of week 2/start of week 3 - rider lying across, led a few steps - then gradually building up to rider sitting up. Then there is divergence depending on the horse and how we THINK it will respond. Sometimes we lead horse with rider sitting up; sometimes horse is sent out on the lunge with the rider; and sometimes the rider works alone to keep horse focussed ON the rider. It's making the right judgement at THAT point which saves having rider on floor!
6. End of week 3/early week 4. Horse ridden free in the manege - basic steering and going forward established. Usually ridden back to and around the yard - and up the drive - as the start of introduction to hacking.
 
I think The Chunk should be renamed The Tank, she is a big lass!!! Have you got any vids of your own babies being backed JG? But if you have please don't mention if any are for sale or else I will be turning up on your doorstep!! :)
 
Buddylove said:
I think The Chunk should be renamed The Tank, she is a big lass!!! Have you got any vids of your own babies being backed JG? But if you have please don't mention if any are for sale or else I will be turning up on your doorstep!! :)
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She's not HUGE - just wide!:D

And I WILL have videos of my own babies being backed once we get a chance to get started on them properly. I have two that have started - but two of the girls are practising on them (they have to learn too!) They are both BIG boys (to mature 17hh plus - one grey and one bay) - and ALL my youngsters are for sale!!:D
 
JanetGeorge said:
and ALL my youngsters are for sale!!:D
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And as a proud owner of one of last years, I would def recommend anyone go to JG for a baby! My boy puts my other (older) horse to shame with his behaviour, and can melt anyones heart within five mins of meeting him!
 
Janet, you do an amaing job! I'm very tempted to pack my 17hh CB boy off to you now! Just not too sure how happy he'd be about the 3 hour journey...

Just noticed your rider using quite a lot of leg on the one eyed appy... which made me think to ask you. Do you get many that aren't very 'off the leg'? I'm just starting my boy now... done the lunging, leanining over, sitting on, being led around. then had to have a break of 6 weeks due to him having a knee injury. so that brings us to today. I went to lean over and then realise that the only mounting block I had to had wasn't big enough so said to my helper ' I'm just going to have to get straight on!' and with that I did and he didn't bat an eyelid! anyway... I'm trying to work on transitions and getting him to respond to my leg, with corresponding voice commands but he really isn't twigging!! lol! Shows some signs of understanding... then regresses and almost seems to block it out! now I know it's early days... today being the 3rd such session and with a 6 week gap but at what stage should I hope to see signs of improvement? lol!
 
CBFan said:
Just noticed your rider using quite a lot of leg on the one eyed appy... which made me think to ask you. Do you get many that aren't very 'off the leg'?
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Oh Heavens- yes- many/most are slow off the leg - because they don't know what it means! The rest you have to keep your leg right off - or they explode! :rolleyes:

We PREFER not to kick - who wants a horse that is hard work to get going! If a youngster is slow to get the hang of leg aids when supported by voice aids we get behind them with a lunge whip (they understand that) but with Lady being minus an eye, it wouldn't be fair to give her something else to have to focus on.
 
My Mare didn't get the leg aid at all at first, but was very reactive to me on the ground (never needed a lunge whip) so I had to find a jockey to sit and just be the kicker! She soon learnt Mummy was nasty if she didn't listen to the person on her back kicking!
Now she's got the hang of it, she's sharp as hell off the leg!
 
Very interesting thread. I am breaking in my newfie x after Easter. He was a rescue and was very poor and now hes three he still looks very underdeveloped, so all I hope for is to back him and be able to potter around the fields then he can be turned away til next year. I wasn't going to lunge him but long rein instead but friend who helps me said lungeing is the way to go. BUT hes weak and the ground is like rock and I don't have a menage - opinions? I can easily leave him until the end of the summer - is there a reason why we do them in the spring?
 
Clodagh said:
Very interesting thread. I am breaking in my newfie x after Easter. He was a rescue and was very poor and now hes three he still looks very underdeveloped, so all I hope for is to back him and be able to potter around the fields then he can be turned away til next year. I wasn't going to lunge him but long rein instead but friend who helps me said lungeing is the way to go. BUT hes weak and the ground is like rock and I don't have a menage - opinions? I can easily leave him until the end of the summer - is there a reason why we do them in the spring?
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Lunging is not essential - although it's helpful. But if he's still immature and underdeveloped, why not leave him for another year? We find older horses are NO harder to back - and are often much easier if they've had plenty of good handling.
 
Thanks for the info JG!! Very interesting.... I have recently bought a mare, rising 5 in Sept, ConniexTB, she had been started calmly and nicely, but (when I tried her) seemed to rely on the contact, to the point that unless I really gave her a strong contact, I couldn't get her to canter. (Although I am not very riding fit myself right now!) I prefer to ride light, and to have the horse carry itself, so looking to go back to basics with her, and as we don't have a saddle yet, was going to just lunge her, but without side-reins (or have them very loose) and try and work on transitions to get her a little more balanced. I'm hoping that will help her a little.
 
Tr0uble said:
And as a proud owner of one of last years, I would def recommend anyone go to JG for a baby! My boy puts my other (older) horse to shame with his behaviour, and can melt anyones heart within five mins of meeting him!
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Your cheque's in the post!:D

Oddly enough, your lovely boy was quite a slow job to back - because he was quite 'reactive' and we thought he might buck like stink! It's a long way to fall - so we took him slowly, and he didn't! His mother was the quickest backing job EVER! She arrived from Ireland at the start of the breeding season as a 3 year old - and I like them backed before they start brood mare career.

We lunged her day 1, saddle on day 2, laid across her day 3, sat up day 4 - and hacked her up the drive day 5!;)
 
Crazydancer said:
I have recently bought a mare, rising 5 in Sept, ConniexTB, she had been started calmly and nicely, but (when I tried her) seemed to rely on the contact, to the point that unless I really gave her a strong contact, I couldn't get her to canter. (Although I am not very riding fit myself right now!) I prefer to ride light, and to have the horse carry itself, so looking to go back to basics with her, and as we don't have a saddle yet, was going to just lunge her, but without side-reins (or have them very loose) and try and work on transitions to get her a little more balanced. I'm hoping that will help her a little.
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That's not uncommon in a youngster who has been started 'well' but perhaps with moe rein aid than I like to use. TBH, I'd rather have a youngster who takes a STRONG contact - than one who doesn't trust the contact and flips its head constantly! The former is FAR easier to cure.

Lots of transitions will help - but the most important thing when you start riding her is to keep taking away the contact on one rein at a time. So whichever rein she is leaning hardest on - push that hand forward so there is NO contact - then take it back lightly. She can't lean if there is nothing to lean on!

She'll soon figure it out - once she strengthens up behind and in her back. She'll start carrying herself! Was she brought on by a male rider? IME, hoses brought on by men TEND to ride a bit 'heavier' than horses brought on by girls (or gay guys!:D) Men are stronger - so it's easier for them to hold a horse together in front and PUSH it on and HOLD it up with their legs! I don't want to work that hard - fortunately neither do John or Phil! The horses have to do the work!

This is a little 4 year old - and I've used this pic before because it demonstrates exactly what we're talking about - a horse MUSTN'T rely on rein contact to 'stay together'. You know you have self-carriage when you can drop the contact completely and the horse stays in the outline and doesn't go faster!

Thornton-b.jpg
 
Thanks Janet, helpful as usual :)
Her previous owner was a petite young lady, a few stone lighter than me!! She is an AI and used to do some teaching.... I think it's just that everyone has their own style, and being a youngster and fairly unbalanced, she needed something to help her. I have plenty of time and in no rush, so we will just work along at our own pace, I think she still has some physical maturing to do as well.

P3210791.jpg
 
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Wow JG those all look like they are coming on so well from when i was there, im very excited to see my own baby off to get his education at yours.
 
Crazydancer said:
Thanks Janet, helpful as usual :)
Her previous owner was a petite young lady, a few stone lighter than me!! She is an AI and used to do some teaching.... I think it's just that everyone has their own style, and being a youngster and fairly unbalanced, she needed something to help her. I have plenty of time and in no rush, so we will just work along at our own pace, I think she still has some physical maturing to do as well.
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We try!:D I like your girl - she IS still a bit bum high - she'll ad an inch at least! She'll come - it's a nice cross as long as there's not TOO much 'pony attitude'!
 
LOU83 said:
Wow JG those all look like they are coming on so well from when i was there, im very excited to see my own baby off to get his education at yours.
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They've actually come a long way since the videos - especially Chunk! Her owners came to see her today and could see a big difference since the video. She's more steer-able, more responsive to the leg (and didn't bronk or pi** off!)
 
JanetGeorge said:
Oh Heavens- yes- many/most are slow off the leg - because they don't know what it means! The rest you have to keep your leg right off - or they explode! :rolleyes:

We PREFER not to kick - who wants a horse that is hard work to get going! If a youngster is slow to get the hang of leg aids when supported by voice aids we get behind them with a lunge whip (they understand that) but with Lady being minus an eye, it wouldn't be fair to give her something else to have to focus on.
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Hi Janet.

Thanks for the reassurance. Yep, I'd much rather he was slow off the leg than the other way! He's too big to be an exploder!

I'm glad I'm doing it right... my helper has been there with the lunge whip ;)
 
Hi,

I would like some advice. I have got a 3 year old cob now standing at 15.2 and still growing!:eek: He has bulked up alot since we brought him almost a year ago and has taken to the lunge and riding very well. He was partly backed already when we got him.

He responds very well to voice commands (now) as I did have an issue with him a few months ago where he decided to take off and I had no brakes! which is not a nice feeling at all.

The question I have is, I know that all horses have a rein they dont like and my cob does not like anti clockwise at all, especially on the lunge.

I think the grass where we are is quite rich at the min cos he's acting like he is on flaming pro plus! when we lunged him yesterday, all was well to start with and then I changed rein. Well, he took off and I could not hold him at all. I had to let go and unfortunately the outdoor school has no fences and he took off at break neck speed to the fields. Is there a way I can get round this? I have been told to keep on with the lunge on the rein he doesnt like, but every single time I do, I can guarantee he will take off, buck and he is so strong I cant always hold him.

any advice please? thanks :)
 
jasperconran said:
I have got a 3 year old cob now standing at 15.2 and still growing!:eek: He has bulked up alot since we brought him almost a year ago and has taken to the lunge and riding very well. He was partly backed already when we got him.
>
The question I have is, I know that all horses have a rein they dont like and my cob does not like anti clockwise at all, especially on the lunge.

I think the grass where we are is quite rich at the min cos he's acting like he is on flaming pro plus! when we lunged him yesterday, all was well to start with and then I changed rein. Well, he took off and I could not hold him at all. I had to let go and unfortunately the outdoor school has no fences and he took off at break neck speed to the fields.
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It is certainly true that almost all horses have a good rein - and a not so good rein. But it is always worth checking out possible causes when the behaviour is quite extreme.

So first I would suggest a visit from a good chiropractor.

Second possibility, particularly if you are lunging off the bit (and it sounds like you NEED to be) is teeth. A wolf tooth or some sharp edges on one side could make that rein painful - and he is running away from pain!

An outdoor school without fences is potentially lethal with a youngster - and I would never lunge a young or green horse in one. I DID - many years ago! The horse got away - and got out on the road - and came down on it. Some nasty injuries - fortunately not life threatening but it could have been much worse! I was about 15 at the time, VERY cocky about my abilities - it taught me a lesson I've never forgotten!!

Of course - cobs (bless them) are opinionated - and many are very short/thickset in the neck - making flexion difficult. Do you use side reins? I don't always use side reins on backers - and when I do they are loose - but with a horse who sets against you on one rein having the side rein on his bad side a little shorter than the outside one might help.

Anmd the final bit of advice - restrict his grazing!!:D
 
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